The Evil Aunt

[Donz]

Im glad its you and not me

I havent even met her extended family yet which has got me thinking abit.

I better not have those problems or I will have to get nasty.

[alexth]

Im glad its you and not me

I havent even met her extended family yet which has got me thinking abit.

I better not have those problems or I will have to get nasty.

And he means REALLY nasty :D

[toptuan]

Don't look now, but you suppose the OP gave up on all our "out-of-the-box" whacky advice? (his last post 9:28am).

Or do you think he has a real life (god forbid) and has to go to work unlike the rest of us lazy farts who post all day long?

Edited December 7, 2006 by toptuan

[kayo]

to mine humble eyes BKKMadness advice seems the best for the given situation. Ruly Truly!

[BangnaBound]

You obviously have a big heart and I sympathize with your situation. I’ve lived with my Thai/Chinese in-laws in Bangkok for 2 years who went through 4 maids in 6 months, and after reading a lot of great advice, let me offer some of my own.

Unfortunately you have 3 concerns that have been rapped up into the issue of your wedding.

1 – The welfare of the girl

2 – Your righteous anger towards this evil woman, and your desire to see her recognized as such.

3 – Should this woman even be allowed at your wedding

I think you need to deal with #1 ASAP. That girl needs out of that house, if she is not already. Tell your family to make it happen. I disagree with the idea that marriage for you here is going to be a partnership, maybe in farangland, but in Thailand you are at best a minority shareholder. In the future, will be doing a lot of giving, not only financially, but emotionally and culturally. This is something for you. Say it calmly, firmly, and repeat it as often as it takes.

As for the wedding invite, while I totally agree with you on principle, the costs verses benefits just don’t add up. The only benefit is your personal satisfaction. The public outing of this vile aunt that you’re hoping to achieve is very unlikely to happen. At best, her absence will go unnoticed, at worst, you’ll end up the bad guy for the numerous reasons already sited, and don’t forget the potential negative PR campaign she could wage against you and you fiancée. This is probably why your fiancée doesn’t want to not invite the aunt; she knows that it’s just going to be a headache everyday up until and including the wedding day. I don’t really subscribe to TIT in this situation. This is a small sacrifice you will have to make to save your fiancée a lot of trouble. This is why I think you need to get the girl out of the house before the wedding, then you as least have some peace of mind and satisfaction that you did the right thing. If you don’t get the girl out of that house, the site of the aunt at your wedding (especially after a few drinks) may get the best of you. As for changing the seating arrangements, if she is the sister of your fiancée, her placement is probably already set, and changing it may be harder that not inviting her.

As for #2, there is no easy answer. The aunt is family, she has money, and it’s a Burmese maid. For the majority of the close and extended family and friends, unless this aunt actually kills the maid, it’s a non-issue. I don’t know what to say. My family are pretty good people, but I can’t imagine that they would see this situation the same way you or I would. There would be some gossip, but nothing to the face of the offending aunt. All you can do is the long term personal war. Try to cut her out of your life best as you can. Having the girl work for you may be great long term revenge.

Best of luck,

BangnaBound

[lostvan]

Or, i would better stand up - people will never respect you if you if you will not stand up for yourself. There are matters that are beyond compromise, or lets say, matters where i would not compromise but the other party has to if they want to be on a social level with me. Just be aware of the risks, and calculate them.

Can't agree with that. It is more likely that you will never be respected if you try to ban her. You'll be known as the farang who is not appreciative of the culture or ways.

Let her go. Ignore her. Don't cause a fuss at such an occasion, it will make it too big a deal.

Like other posters have said, the bigger thing for you needs to be ensuring that your (and your children's) day to day lives have nothing to do with her. That certainly will be possible.

[griser]

I have a suggestion. This may work, but im not sure how the thai's will take it... Have the wife suggest to the Aunt that she is expected to give a LARGE wedding gift due to her status. This should do two things:

1. It will let the aunt know that she's in the spotlight and under the microscope all at the same time. This should reflect as a gentle nudge to her and her family that her behavier is unacceptable.

2. Gets you some extra cash to offset the pain of having her at the wedding.

Greg

[p_brownstone]

Have the wife suggest to the Aunt that she is expected to give a LARGE wedding gift due to her status.

Greg

You can't be serious?

In Thailand? A junior member of the Family "suggesting" anything like this to a Senior - richer - member of the clan?

It would never happen, and such a "suggestion" from the OP to his future wife would only underline the fact that he has no concept or understanding of Thai culture or family dynamics.

Patrick

[bkkmadness]

Have the wife suggest to the Aunt that she is expected to give a LARGE wedding gift due to her status.

Greg

You can't be serious?

In Thailand? A junior member of the Family "suggesting" anything like this to a Senior - richer - member of the clan?

It would never happen, and such a "suggestion" from the OP to his future wife would only underline the fact that he has no concept or understanding of Thai culture or family dynamics.

Patrick

And big present or not, it doesn't deal with what should be the main concern, and that's a 13 year old girl being kept against her will as a slave really, having her life threatened on a regular basis. Whether the Aunt goes to the wedding or not, this girl needs help and that should be the main priority here.

[Mobi]

Mobi I think my idea doesn't need to be so confrontational. You don't need to go there and demand conditions or no invite because that definitely will cause a lot of hassle and you wont get a result.

You could have the Mother of your wife go round there with your daughter on some friendly visits, and whilst there talk about how the young couple will be needing a maid soon, and how nice it would be if they could find one just like yours, and what a lovely wedding gift for them blah blah blah etc. until the Aunt suggests they take the maid as a wedding gift.

Or perhaps have the Mother and Father pop round there and say "there's a problem with the farang and wedding because of his silly farang culture, and his silly farang ways and the farang is finding it difficult to accept the current situation with the maid and would like the maid for himself and his wife. Causing great stress to the wedding blah blah, my daughter, us the parents blah blah. and perhaps you could hand them the contract of the maid so the wedding can go ahead without any problems?" Or something along those lines, the Aunt may be willing to give up the maid as a favour to your wife's parents.

Pretty much the truth I suppose but they can play it the way that's its all your problem, and you are difficult to understand being farang and all, but they don't know what to and perhaps the kind Aunt could help them solve this problem for the sake of family harmony. You obviously are put here as the cause of the problem but I'm sure you can take that on your back for the sake of getting a result.

Ok, theres no doubt better ways to do it, but I'm sure the wife's family know some way to politely force her hand in that ever so pleasant Asian way. Theres bound to be someone in the family that knows how to put the right kind of pressure on her with all the right smiles.

Gotta be worth some consideration, perhaps ask your wife about this ploy?

It's certainly more feasable and a very typical Thai 'face saving' solution. If the OP presses hard, and the family are half way there and realise that the OP is deadly serious, it might work.

Certainly worth a punt.

[GracelessFawn]

My Fiance' and I had a terribly long heavy argument last night about my reaction to a story she told me about her bitch of a aunt. Strangely enough, we didn't argue about the fact that she is a evil bitch, no we argued over my reaction to the news of her latest drama.

Sounds like Aunt needs new batteries for her vibrator

Right on!

[SnakeBite]

What I have failed to see is why she is illegal? I mean, the girl is working as a maid for some want to be hi so person, so she must have some kind of papers. I don't see anything from the op on this and this makes me wonder what the heck is really going on. What?, he can do anything with alll the dosh he has?

I'm not saying the story is BS, far from it as I know others here that hire illegals but it does seem a bit strange that she can get away with the accused the sister employed at another house. I need more info to make a judgement on this.

So what is the sister to the evil witch say about all this?

Edited December 7, 2006 by SnakeBite

[jamman]

Unfortunately you have 3 concerns that have been rapped up into the issue of your wedding.

1 – The welfare of the girl

2 – Your righteous anger towards this evil woman, and your desire to see her recognized as such.

3 – Should this woman even be allowed at your wedding

Pithy.

I disagree with the idea that marriage for you here is going to be a partnership, maybe in farangland, but in Thailand you are at best a minority shareholder.

You got the the wrong end of the understanding stick. Generally in Asia, as in the rest of the world, the man has his roles of dominance.

If you find an opinion slanted either towards the man or woman, power wise, time to wise up. Being pussy whipped is no more sustainable than being controllabling. Passion needs a little uncertainty to breathe. We stand up for our own choices for the same reason we respect the power of choice in our mate. We need their polarity for spark - if we fully own them, the battery goes dead.

A woman wants her man to put her in her place, as much as a man needs a place. I'm putting this bluntly to force extra thought. Men in Thailand are said to have dominance, said to have submission. Men in India, men in the U.S. You get a realm, and as much influence as you win from assertion, you may initially get. Long term influence is always a matter of balance. Ya, you can lay down and let HER family and HER whims control. But why?

I've been pussy whipped before, of course under the impression of being empathetic. It takes little effort to have a spine. Just hone your style into a flair, and drop sweet bullshit. Who cares if you lose what is not attracted to that? She has more power than you?

Not.

In the future, will be doing a lot of giving, not only financially, but emotionally and culturally. This is something for you. Say it calmly, firmly, and repeat it as often as it takes.

And in the future, I will be doing a lot of receiving. Feel it in your heart with gratitude and devotion and thanks for the next breath.

Or move on.

As for the wedding invite, while I totally agree with you on principle, the costs verses benefits just don’t add up. The only benefit is your personal satisfaction. The public outing of this vile aunt that you’re hoping to achieve is very unlikely to happen. At best, her absence will go unnoticed, at worst, you’ll end up the bad guy for the numerous reasons already sited, and don’t forget the potential negative PR campaign she could wage against you and you fiancée.

Ya, but that is all boring drama. He doesn't want her there. Who cares about what x family member thinks, what y family member does, who goes to his side, who goes to some other side.

Whatever.

Does anyone really care about family dynamics like that? Apparently.

Maybe the OP prefers to hang with people who don't abuse other people. Let them chose sides. What difference does it make that these people are "family" - related to his wife?

Family is a choice - and I respect that the OP has values higher than blood.

This is probably why your fiancée doesn’t want to not invite the aunt; she knows that it’s just going to be a headache everyday up until and including the wedding day.

I doubt that motivation. Thais can not take on the mental pain of public persona rubbing up against reality. They prefer the cartoon reality. Interuppting their cartoon reality is like interruping a dog feeding.

Thais can not see the fact that the Aunt is a bitch. Yes, the bitch factor will register, but not the same way it does for a westerner. A westerner will try to unify all his perceptions and ideas and memories into a single grand vision. A Thai will approach each moment separately, with deft tact, and act as if even she did not hear what she just said.

I don’t really subscribe to TIT in this situation. This is a small sacrifice you will have to make to save your fiancée a lot of trouble.

Oh, man, bad attitude for a marriage. When you need to assert, don't compromise. Retreat and

forgetting your own needs and principles is not the aim or necessity of marriage. He is who he is, and his wife should make him stronger, not weaker. As he can her. But not by rolling over and showing white.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

WOW

Firstly Thank all of you for your honest advice ALOT of good posts, I just got in from work and I will start with some better replies after I sqaure some things away.

[Don Quixote]

Heres an idea.

Invite the Aunt and her children to the wedding, make sure they are made to feel that you realy want them to come. Give the maid a nice little sum of cash and tell her when the wedding will be and that this is her chance to escape as she will be left alone, warn her that should she decide to go that she must NEVER return for any reason.

If you know people in Thailand you could also even try to find her another employer as far away from the Aunts place as possible.

Also talk to your mother-in-law about the situation as they treat her sister well and must also be unhappy about the abuse.

When the news of the maids disapearing act comes to light you could also quietly let the Aunt know that you had helped her and why. Make it understood that you find this treatment of other people unaceptable and should she hire another girl and start the same thing again there will be a problem

Face saved, Wife happy, Maid free and Aunt knows the score.

Just a thought, it could work.

[Don Quixote]

By the way, good on you for not looking the other way.

[Thaddeus]

My Fiance' and I had a terribly long heavy argument last night about my reaction to a story she told me about her bitch of a aunt. Strangely enough, we didn't argue about the fact that she is a evil bitch, no we argued over my reaction to the news of her latest drama.

Sounds like Aunt needs new batteries for her vibrator

Right on!

Indeed... but

What size and domestic or industrial strength?

There has been some good advice here and most of it points to a situation I had a few years back.

Let the evil one come to the wedding, smile at her when you see her (clenched teeth, whatever) accept her 'wedding gift' with grace if one is offered.... and say nothing.

The family are not stupid, they probably already know the situation, but Thai etiquette means that if you do something outside acceptable boundaries, you, as the outsider, will be at fault.

Most of your relatives-to-be are waiting patiently for this witch to make a really big mistake.... I suggest you do the same.

But try to get a better job for the maid and her sister before then

//edit/smileytypo

Edited December 7, 2006 by Thaddeus

[CymruAmByth]

Mr. M0ney Sh0t,

I know - KNEW- the wonderful girl you are honoured to be engaged to (nothing underhand here please!)

Take the foul and disgraceful aunt at face value (what goes around, comes around) and sit back and enjoy the rest of your life with one of Thailand's most wonderful people.

Just be careful when mom whips out her coupon card at Oishi!! (ask J, she will tell you lol).

Seriously man...good luck with everything. You are in a good place right now!

Edited December 7, 2006 by CymruAmByth

[bkkmadness]

You are in a good place right now!

I've heard Iraq is lovely this time of year.

[CymruAmByth]

You are in a good place right now!

I've heard Iraq is lovely this time of year.

Off you go then!

Don't forget to send us a postcard!

[bkkmadness]

Nah, too many loud americans with guns there.

What's happened to Money Shot anyway?

[CymruAmByth]

Nah, too many loud americans with guns there.

What's happened to Money Shot anyway?

Obviously did a runner once I mentioned that I knew his 'intended' !!

Mum was a bugger with her Oishi coupon card too!

[bkkmadness]

Nah, too many loud americans with guns there.

What's happened to Money Shot anyway?

Obviously did a runner once I mentioned that I knew his 'intended' !!

Mum was a bugger with her Oishi coupon card too!

He's probably on the phone now trying to find out who you are and how you know her!

Of course none of us wanna know.....

[CymruAmByth]

Nah, too many loud americans with guns there.

What's happened to Money Shot anyway?

Obviously did a runner once I mentioned that I knew his 'intended' !!

Mum was a bugger with her Oishi coupon card too!

He's probably on the phone now trying to find out who you are and how you know her!

Of course none of us wanna know.....

Nothing to it! (have you seen the size of him!!!!!!!)

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Ok, Well were to begin. I have been thinking about it allot and many of you make some really good points. Once again, thanks for the outpouring of honest advice.

As for the saftey of the girls they will be just fine, My Fiance's mom will not let any harm come to them now.

But as for what to do, it's tough. As of now I am of the mind to ban her. And I don't really see that changing. If there was someone in my family like that I would not even make my Fiance' have to ask me, no way I would invite them! And to compound matter's more this is not the only thing I don't like about the Aunt. She has made it known that she dosn't like outsiders and makes a habbit of spying on us when we are at our condo. Bypassing my fiance' to call her mother directly and tell her "Oh I have seen your daughter's car at her condo all day long, what are they doing there?" (Keep in mind that we don't spend the night together to avoid the apperance of "Wrong doing" before we are wed)

As if she is trying to start trouble. I told her, "Call your aunt, tell her any time she wants to know whats going on over here, she is just in the building next door, come over knock on the door and ask! But to call up your mom and attempt to insinuate scandle, thats just asking for it from me!"

Also, on the pro ban side, I really would like to know who is down for us and who isn't. Without a litmus test like this I will likely never know. But if I do ban then people will be forced to face it and forced to make a decision. I think that can be healthy.

As for those people who mentioned how I can't consider the fact that I am footing the bill as an empowerment to choose who comes and who dosent. I beg to differ, if they can use Sin Sot as a empowerment to decide weather or not we can marry then I sure as hel_l can use my financial responsibilities as justification to invite or not invite someone.

Now, on the down sides.

1) I do Love the rest of her folks, Mom irritates me a lil by calling her daughter fat all the time. But the 2 bedroom condo I live in SHE bought, and gave to us to live in FREE until we bought our house.

2) The Grandma, a lovely sweet older woman who makes a special effort to speak with me (her English is quite good for someone her age, 75-80?) and she cooks the BEST Thai food I ever had in my life JUST for me when I come around. I mean before I left for Iraq last time I had a big bag of dried shredded Pork, when I come there she has the green beef curry waiting, always so much more than I can eat. A warm and gentle person to me. One wonders how someone like my fiance's aunt could have come from someone so nice. If I ban her than Grandma will no doubt be upset....do I really want to put grandma in a situation were she has to choose over her daughters? It's so tough too. I lost my grandma last year to Alzheimer's, and in many ways her gentle demenour reminds me of my blood grandma. I never really got the chance to let her know how much I loved her before the Alzheimer's ate away at her mind, but here I feel like I can in some small way make up for it with compassion and kindness to my grandmother in law. However that being said, I also come from a different background. As a Black American I can sympathize with the plight of the Burmese maid. My own Grandmother was a maid, and so many of us suffered the same kind of abuse and much worse in the past. So for me the issue strikes home a bit more than it would for some.

3) The Father in Law: Wow he's the best Father in Law a man could ask for. Educated in India and The Sates, he's a master architect and self made buissness man who came from NOTHING and made a wonderful life for his family. His English is perfect and he's always got something cool to talk about. He's fair and easy to talk to and we get along great!

However unlike me, he has no tolerance for drama, he hates drama of all types and just likes to see things go smoothly. If I ban her there will be drama and likely he will have questions to answer.

Some times I feel like I want to buckle under the burden of Truth (rarely mind you I am far from a saint) But this time I'm just not sure. Though I do have time, another 12 months to decide.

[chuchok]

Simple,buy the maid a fancy dress and invite her to the wedding.

[bkkmadness]

I personally think the welfare of the 13 year old child that's being kept in against her will should be of most importance here, not whether or not the aunt should be allowed to the wedding.

Your decision in this matter should be concerned by that and little else IMHO.

I understand you want to make some kind of protest against this woman's behaviour by not inviting her to the wedding, but that will not stop her behavior, it's purely for your own satisfaction, the maid doesn't benefit at all. If the reason is found out why she was banned then the child is going to have a lot more shit come down on her don't you think? The Aunt wont be able to take her anger out on you, but she will be able to take it out on the maid. Are you willing to risk that because you don't want this woman at your wedding?

I know you can't grab the girl and whisk her away to safety in hero's arms coz life isn't like that, especially for the illegal Burmese in this country. But in time when you are a fully fledged member of the family and living here full time you might be in the position to help this kid, find new employment for her, take her as a maid, get her visa fixed so she doesn't have a fear of arrest, whatever.

When that time comes you'll need to deal with the Aunt, and then you need to be the good guy that invited her to the wedding, not the guy who caused her to lose so much face and she hates with a vengeance. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, I'm sure it'll work out to your advantage and more importantly to the maid's advantage in the end. Play the slow game, think long term.

Besides that, if you start forcing the family to take sides on your first day in there's gonna be trouble ahead, you're forcing a divide in a family you have just joined, that might not win you any friends. Think about it, it doesn't make sense.

I could be wrong, but I think you probably feel that by allowing her to come to this wedding it shows that you approve of her, and of course by that approve of her actions also. But it doesn't, it shows you know how to follow protocol (is that the right word?spel?). I guess already a lot of the family will know your feelings toward her by that time and if they don't well they can find out at a later date if you need them too. Your wedding day is not the place to make this stand.

I'm sure your wife, her folks and whoever else will be happy that you decided to swallow your pride on this occasion because you would have saved them the bother of confrontations. They'll be more willing to help you in the future should you ever have to go head to head with the Aunt, whether it's about the maid or her bothering your girlfriend's Mum about cars in the driveway.

Edited December 7, 2006 by bkkmadness

[lannarebirth]

Here's a thought. Tell your future MIL that for providing you with a condo for free you'd like to pay the salary of the young girl to come to work for her at her home(they're probably not paying more than 3-4k/mo), together with the sister wo's already there. Let the MIL worry about how she extracts her from the auntie.

At her age she realistically cannot be separated from her older sister, who is her lifeline in this country. She is currently, not only open to abuse by the auntie, but if there's anymen around, they'll be coming after her soon enough as well. Find a creative way to get her out of there now.

Edited December 7, 2006 by lannarebirth

[kayo]

Cpt M0ney HOney,

just on a side note yeah...:

We're not that bad after all are we?

Kayo!

[Head Snake]

C M S,

I am starting to think the family is too much drama. More than normal.

just my opinion.

Do you want this <deleted> every month or so?

Your honey is beautiful. Take her away and live happily ever after; but if you participate in family affairs, its obvious there is too much <deleted>.

Just my opinion. Ignore or blast me if you want.