More Britons want greater control of immigration than EU free trade - poll

[snoop1130]

More Britons want greater control of immigration than EU free trade - poll

 

UK Border control is seen in Terminal 2 at Heathrow Airport in London June 4, 2014. REUTERS/Neil Hall/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Greater control of immigration is more important for Britons than access to free trade with the European Union during negotiations for the UK's departure from the bloc, according to a poll on Monday.

 

Britain has said it will trigger formal negotiations with the EU by the end of March, starting a two-year process to define the future relationship of the UK with its biggest trading partner.

 

Pollster ORB found that 46 percent of Britons agreed that greater control over immigration was more important than access to free trade, while 39 percent disagreed.

 

That has flipped since November, when 43 percent disagreed and would prioritise access to free trade, compared to 41 percent who agreed.

 

"This poll clearly shows that if the country had to choose it would prefer greater control over its borders to access to free trade," said Johnny Heald, managing director of ORB International.

 

"If we can’t have both, then having greater control over our borders is increasingly the preference."

 

While Prime Minister Theresa May has been vague on her priorities heading into negotiations, markets have taken fright at hints at a deal which may threaten trade links, often called "hard Brexit".

 

Sterling slid to a ten-week low on Monday morning after May said she was not interested in keeping "bits of membership" of the EU and denied her government's strategy was muddled.

 

The poll found that 62 percent of people disapproved of the way the government is handling Brexit negotiations, a level roughly unchanged since November.

 

The online survey polled 2,075 people, with fieldwork conducted between Jan. 6-8.

 

(Reporting by Alistair Smout; editing by Stephen Addison)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-1-9

[Lite Beer]

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

[steve187]

for anyone living in the UK, it is easy to see how things have changed in a few short years,  cut backs everywhere, hospitals struggling to cope, pay freezes, ages for pensions being extended ahead of time, lack of road repairs,  prison overcrowding, local government service cut, street lighting, refuse collection, police, fire and other emergency service, lots of the things that have taken since the 2nd world war to build the country into the great nation, are being destroyed, respect for others, teachers police etc. respect for the things around, streets, countryside.

 

it is easy to blame outsiders that are arriving in the UK, who are coming for the good things, not to give but to take. They believe the UK is paved with gold, and they want some of those paving slabs, they are coming to get away from the bad things in their own countries, instead of fighting by any means possible to improve that country.They do not want to mix, learn the language, integrate, they are wanting changes to the laws of the land, they are working off the books, driving vehicles registered abroad illegally in the UK, and generally not playing cricket.

 

maybe these immigrants are to blame maybe not, but it is the right of Uk nationals to have their opinion, multiculturalism has been forced on them by successive governments, who have changed the UK from being a member of a common market to being member of a united states of Europe.

 

so to call these people xenophobic Brits is not correct, they have just had enough, they want a change, be that change, good for the UK, or be it bad, that is something that remains to be seen, but it is something that the people have the right to choose, or in fact demand

 

I agree that the UK is going down the pan, but not because of the things that are about to happen, but because of the things that have happened over the last 20 or so years.

 

And this demand for change is spreading.

Edited January 9, 2017 by steve187

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

 

Or how sensible and pragmatic they can be when they consider the absolute security shambles that exists in modern Europe due this open border nonsense.

[3NUMBAS]

Migrants are living like kings on child Benny's building houses back home in eastern Europe on the proceeds of crime 

[Andrew65]

7 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

Is it Xenophobic when the Thais insist on us doing a 90 day report, or having to do a 30 day extension, or refusing us entry altogether? No, they're just doing what scores of other countries around the World are doing, exercising the control of their borders. Did Canada have to agree to be overrun with migrants as a condition of CETA? (Free trade deal with the EU).

 

Do they have healthcare/welfare for their own people, let alone potentially 450 million EU nationals?

[jesimps]

11 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

For wanting control over its own borders? I'd suggest that's a perfectly normal desire for any country and is the same for most countries of the world. Or do you think it's only the Brits who should abolish border controls and let in every Tom, Dick, or Harry?

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by jesimps

[i claudius]

This is just the start ,in the years to come country;s will be building walls to keep out the unwanted hordes of immegrants that instead of working and trying to make their own country's better just want to go to a country where they can scrounge off it .

i lived for many years in a town where there was a thriving community it was clean ,working class and quite well run , now it is divided , different races do not mix ,especially one sort and it now looks like a foreign country .in many areas the locals have been pushed out and to be blunt its a sh-t pit

[zyphodb]

The phrase closing the door after the Horse has bolted comes to mind, the damage has already been done all across the UK, the last bastion of the British working classes since Thatcher destroyed British Industry was the Building trade, that was destroyed by migrants coming in and undercutting all our trades, who all had mortgages to pay which the migrants did not, they lived as cheaply as possible while sending the bulk of their money home & after a few years they had enough to go home set up for life leaving the UK building trade in tatters. It is not their fault for doing this, it is successive UK governments for allowing this to happen. I don't know what the solution is for the UK but it looks very bleak as far as I can see, I am so glad that I got out when I could....

[tonbridgebrit]

13 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

+1

Got to agree here, and I wish it was that people back home didn't feel this way.

Let's look at some of the comments that have been put up here, comments that don't reflect the above post. What these comments imply or insinuate.


Okay, immigration.
Let's get real. So, some people don't like them black people entering Britain, and they don't like them Middle-East types as well. Oh, so we're suppose to cheer on a 'hard Brexit', we're suppose to want more control over borders and immigration, and this is wanted more than free trade with Europe. It's absurd. Them coloureds who enter into Britain, the vast majority of them come into Britain directly from places like Nigeria, South Africa, etc.
Britain has total control over these foreigners (foreigners from outside of the EU) whether it's in the EU or not in the EU. Remember, lots of Britain's black people are originally from the West Indies. These black people, them lot coming into Britain is nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, it's nothing to do with freedom of movement in the EU. And the same goes for them Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in Britain. Britain can stop new Pakistanis and Bangladeshis coming in, whether inside or outside of the EU. Britain having freedom of movement of people with the EU will make almost zero difference to new coloureds coming in.

Them black people you see on television, on them ships, crossing the Mediteranean Sea, and turning up in places like Italy. How many of them eventually turn up in Britain ? It's not that many. And them coloureds coming into Britain illegally, on that Channel Tunnel. It's a big red herring. Even if a dozen came in illegally everyday, and even if they're not deported, that makes about four thousand new coloureds per year. That number hardly makes a difference when bearing in mind how many coloureds are already in Britain.


And now, them Eastern Europeans. Yes, removal of freedom of movement of people from the EU, this will reduce the number of Eastern Europeans coming into Britain. Correct. But look. There's people in Britain who have got Polish surnames. A lot of them were born and raised in Britain, some of them, it was their grand-parents who entered into Britain. These people, the only thing Polish about them is their Polish surnames. These people (the ones born in England) speak the same as other people, they look the same. You can't tell the difference between them and other people when you see them in the High Street. And this applies to them Romanians and Bulgarians as well as the Polish.

And finally, if Britain does send back some of them Eastern Europeans. A fair number of people who work for the NHS are Eastern Europeans. A fair number of builders (construction workers) are from Eastern Europe. The NHS and the building industry  wil be harmed if some of these people are going to be sent home.

 

[dutchinlondon]

11 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

Migrants are living like kings on child Benny's building houses back home in eastern Europe on the proceeds of crime 

I do know "some:" English living the life in Spain and all over europe. So I guess we send them all back to your lovely island?

 

[sawadee1947]

13 hours ago, steve187 said:

for anyone living in the UK, it is easy to see how things have changed in a few short years,  cut backs everywhere, hospitals struggling to cope, pay freezes, ages for pensions being extended ahead of time, lack of road repairs,  prison overcrowding, local government service cut, street lighting, refuse collection, police, fire and other emergency service, lots of the things that have taken since the 2nd world war to build the country into the great nation, are being destroyed, respect for others, teachers police etc. respect for the things around, streets, countryside.

 

it is easy to blame outsiders that are arriving in the UK, who are coming for the good things, not to give but to take. They believe the UK is paved with gold, and they want some of those paving slabs, they are coming to get away from the bad things in their own countries, instead of fighting by any means possible to improve that country.They do not want to mix, learn the language, integrate, they are wanting changes to the laws of the land, they are working off the books, driving vehicles registered abroad illegally in the UK, and generally not playing cricket.

 

maybe these immigrants are to blame maybe not, but it is the right of Uk nationals to have their opinion, multiculturalism has been forced on them by successive governments, who have changed the UK from being a member of a common market to being member of a united states of Europe.

 

so to call these people xenophobic Brits is not correct, they have just had enough, they want a change, be that change, good for the UK, or be it bad, that is something that remains to be seen, but it is something that the people have the right to choose, or in fact demand

 

I agree that the UK is going down the pan, but not because of the things that are about to happen, but because of the things that have happened over the last 20 or so years.

 

And this demand for change is spreading.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"they have just had enough, they want a change, be that change, good for the UK, or be it bad, that is something that remains to be seen, but it is something that the people have the right to choose, or in fact demand"

 

We had that change already in Europe more than 70 years ago. Started in Germany. But why Brits cannot learn? Why they are so narrow minded?  Example: If you want to sell a product you have to have customers. But if you stand alone without customers? What will you do? Start a war? Look at the Pound....there is only one direction: DOWN. Brits will have to pay a high price for their ignorance. Maybe another bitter way to learn!

 

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, i claudius said:

This is just the start ,in the years to come country;s will be building walls to keep out the unwanted hordes of immegrants that instead of working and trying to make their own country's better just want to go to a country where they can scrounge off it .

i lived for many years in a town where there was a thriving community it was clean ,working class and quite well run , now it is divided , different races do not mix ,especially one sort and it now looks like a foreign country .in many areas the locals have been pushed out and to be blunt its a sh-t pit

 

Well good point? Put them all into a Ghetto. Like Hitler did with the Jews? And then deport them? Then you'll have your clean city back, you racist!

[kevkev1888]

14 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

This just goes to show how racist and xenophobic Brits have become.

The country is rapidly going down the pan.

Shameful.

 

Wanting control over its borders is racist, xenophobic and shameful?

 

Pathetic!!!! That kind of crap is why we voted Brexit and why Trump won.

Edited January 10, 2017 by kevkev1888

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, dutchinlondon said:

I do know "some:" English living the life in Spain and all over europe. So I guess we send them all back to your lovely island?

 

 

I think you'll find the people you refer to are actually British, not English.

 

I challenge you - how many of the British people living in Spain, and other EU countries, which is not all Europe, are living on benefits, or receiving benefits and free hand-outs of some kind?

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, zyphodb said:

The phrase closing the door after the Horse has bolted comes to mind, the damage has already been done all across the UK, the last bastion of the British working classes since Thatcher destroyed British Industry was the Building trade, that was destroyed by migrants coming in and undercutting all our trades, who all had mortgages to pay which the migrants did not, they lived as cheaply as possible while sending the bulk of their money home & after a few years they had enough to go home set up for life leaving the UK building trade in tatters. It is not their fault for doing this, it is successive UK governments for allowing this to happen. I don't know what the solution is for the UK but it looks very bleak as far as I can see, I am so glad that I got out when I could....

 

Something I have always found confusing is that Margaret Thatcher got the blame for so many things that she did (but little credit for the good that she did). 

 

Now she left power in 1990 and there have been a few PMs of Tory or Labour since she left.

 

Why didn't ANY of those governments reverse what she did in the 26 years since she quit?

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

 

 

Germany was in ruins 70 years ago and bankrupt. The allies, mostly led by America, thought rebuilding and making sure everyone was in work was a better strategy to persuade Germany to move away from its military nationalistic dictatorial culture rather than punishments as happened after WW1. Besides which, it was a convenient front line buffer against the communist Warsaw Pact controlled by the USSR.

 

With massive aid, without the need for massive defense spending, Germany flourished. Sure some German companies have behaved illegally, Siemens with their bribery, VW with their mass fraud etc but so have other big businesses. Germany has also done well because it was able to create the idea of "German quality" - often true, but not always; and it's big home market in which people supported German businesses and bought made in Germany in preference to low cost foreign competition. Germany has also done very nicely with the introduction of the Euro.

 

Now Germany wants to dominate Europe. Not by armed force as in the past, but by financial, economic and political measures. The slow sneaky move to federalism is championed by Germany. Never ever have the people of Europe been asked to vote on this. Simply led their by pro-federal socialist politicians who say one thing but do anything to pursue their agenda.

 

Britain has a strong  and long tradition of democracy. Germany, a country younger than the US, doesn't. And it shows.

Britain should have voted to remain in the EU but insisted, along with some others, that the people of Europe be asked directly about the future they want. Not the future decided by some politicians and bureaucrats who arrogantly think they know best. Once the people of the EU as a whole have decided the future they want, then all member states must abide by that or leave. Only that way can the future really deliver what people want.

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Something I have always found confusing is that Margaret Thatcher got the blame for so many things that she did (but little credit for the good that she did). 

 

Now she left power in 1990 and there have been a few PMs of Tory or Labour since she left.

 

Why didn't ANY of those governments reverse what she did in the 26 years since she quit?

 

Because the truth was Thatcher wasn't singularly responsible. Weak Labor governments dominated by trade unions, some of whose leaders were trying to bring down the country's constitution and move much more left, had failed to prevent the ruining of many industries and businesses. Costs, quality, on time delivery, innovation, were all undermined by loony unions, crap management and an education system in which many teachers/lecturers were more interested in political indoctrination than actual education.

 

Thatcher cleaned up the mess, but sadly, like a lot of zealots, went far too far.

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, dutchinlondon said:

I do know "some:" English living the life in Spain and all over europe. So I guess we send them all back to your lovely island?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think you'll find the people you refer to are actually British, not English.

 

I challenge you - how many of the British people living in Spain, and other EU countries, which is not all Europe, are living on benefits, or receiving benefits and free hand-outs of some kind?

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Because the truth was Thatcher wasn't singularly responsible. Weak Labor governments dominated by trade unions, some of whose leaders were trying to bring down the country's constitution and move much more left, had failed to prevent the ruining of many industries and businesses. Costs, quality, on time delivery, innovation, were all undermined by loony unions, crap management and an education system in which many teachers/lecturers were more interested in political indoctrination than actual education.

 

Thatcher cleaned up the mess, but sadly, like a lot of zealots, went far too far.

 

Thatcher's blinkered pursuit of monetarism (see Minford et al) saw manufacturing drop from 27% of GDP to 9%. It was pursued with such vigour that there was no time to replace smokestack industries with modern technology based businesses. Where is our semiconductor/electronics/digital sector? The ensuing mass unemployment sucked up all of our oil revenues. Unions have been emasculated compared to the 80s and where has that left us. The Germans have stuffed us at manufacturing. Their workers are much better paid and have better protection and conditions. Our education system is not fit for purpose. American style shorttermism has also killed much needed industrial development. It's all the fault of the EU though ?

Edited January 10, 2017 by Grouse

[overherebc]

One of the big differences for me is the fact that Europeans in general, the vast majority, will have worked and paid into social systems and tax systems somewhere in Europe meaning they are entitled to claim some sort of benefit when unemployed. Yes, there will be the professional unemployed who milk the system but I don't think they are the majority.

So called refugees, ie economic migrants who enter illegally and have contributed nothing then stick their hands out and demand should be handed a free ticket home and be forced to use it.

[Baerboxer]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Thatcher's blinkered pursuit of monetarism (see Minford et al) saw manufacturing drop from 27% of GDP to 9%. It was pursued with such vigour that there was no time to replace smokestack industries with modern technology based businesses. Where is our semiconductor/electronics/digital sector? The ensuing mass unemployment sucked up all of our oil revenues. Unions have been emasculated compared to the 80s and where has that left us. The Germans have stuffed us at manufacturing. Their workers are much better paid and have better protection and conditions. Our education system is not fit for purpose. American style shorttermism has also killed much needed industrial development. It's all the fault of the EU though ?

 

I worked in Germany for several years for three different manufacturing companies in three different segments. German companies have the same issues and problems - they don't always deliver on time, their quality isn't always good and many have more cost accounting.

 

But they are forced to take a longer term view because of the Works Council and involvement of local government and professional people. This also forces them to treat people better - conditions, pay, etc. German companies benefit from the very good vocational schools and apprenticeships that provide good well trained recruits for the workforce and develop them. 

Having said that  most of my German friends aren't happy with the schools anymore, or the way hospitals are more business orientated now.

 

The UK follows the US more - an obsession with short termism. Focus on quarterly results and with leadership teams often managing to achieve their KPI's to max their bonuses and share option values rather than the long term future and benefits for all stakeholders. This is where Germany wins hands down.

[DavidVincent]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think you'll find the people you refer to are actually British, not English.

 

I challenge you - how many of the British people living in Spain, and other EU countries, which is not all Europe, are living on benefits, or receiving benefits and free hand-outs of some kind?

 

 

Your wish is granted :
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

 

At least 30,000 Britons on unemployment benefit in EU, Guardian research shows

[tonbridgebrit]

Right, this is becoming ridiculous and absurd. Okay, if you've got something against more and more curry shops in England, I don't support your view, but still, you're entitled to your view. So, you don't want to see more and more Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in England. And maybe you don't want to see more and more black people (from the West Indies and Nigeria) coming into Britain.

But, what is so wrong about the shop pictured above, in Britain ?? Surely, hardly anybody has got something against a few more shops like this in Britain ? So, this type of shop is symbolic of Polish and Eastern European people in England. look, if you're not from Eastern Europe, you can still go in there, and buy something. What's so bad about this type of shop ?

And again, I say this. "Hard Brexit" is acually about reducing the freedom of movement of EU nationals coming into Britain. Reducing freedom of movement of people from the EU into Britain is NOT about reducing the number of Nigerians and Pakistanis entering Britain. People who want no more coloureds to enter into Britain and who support a 'hard Brexit", they're actually supporting a system that will basically reduce the number of Eastern Europeans (that's Polish, Romaians, Bulgarians, etc) entering into Britain.

Stop supporting a "hard Brexit". "Hard Brexit" might mean that the EU will no longer allow goods from Britain to enter into Europe with zero or minimal taxes. The EU is trying to link the issue of immigration (freedom of movement of people within the EU) with free trade with Europe. We've got to accept that, whether we like it or not.

 

 

 

[steve187]

How many of these ' workers' are fully legal in the UK, and paying tax, NI, have mortgages and supporting local businesses, how much are they getting in Child benefit, for children that have never been to the UK

Edited January 10, 2017 by steve187

[zyphodb]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Something I have always found confusing is that Margaret Thatcher got the blame for so many things that she did (but little credit for the good that she did). 

 

Now she left power in 1990 and there have been a few PMs of Tory or Labour since she left.

 

Why didn't ANY of those governments reverse what she did in the 26 years since she quit?

 

A good question, I don't know where in Europe you come from, but in the UK anyway the political parties promise whatever they think will get votes & then when they get in they do as they please with very little regard to what they actually said, and until the voting system is changed to proportional representation instead of the archaic system that they use at the moment, there doesn't seem to be much chance of this changing... 

 

[PremiumLane]

17 hours ago, steve187 said:

for anyone living in the UK, it is easy to see how things have changed in a few short years,  cut backs everywhere, hospitals struggling to cope, pay freezes, ages for pensions being extended ahead of time, lack of road repairs,  prison overcrowding, local government service cut, street lighting, refuse collection, police, fire and other emergency service, lots of the things that have taken since the 2nd world war to build the country into the great nation, are being destroyed, respect for others, teachers police etc. respect for the things around, streets, countryside.

 

it is easy to blame outsiders that are arriving in the UK, who are coming for the good things, not to give but to take. They believe the UK is paved with gold, and they want some of those paving slabs, they are coming to get away from the bad things in their own countries, instead of fighting by any means possible to improve that country.They do not want to mix, learn the language, integrate, they are wanting changes to the laws of the land, they are working off the books, driving vehicles registered abroad illegally in the UK, and generally not playing cricket.

 

maybe these immigrants are to blame maybe not, but it is the right of Uk nationals to have their opinion, multiculturalism has been forced on them by successive governments, who have changed the UK from being a member of a common market to being member of a united states of Europe.

 

so to call these people xenophobic Brits is not correct, they have just had enough, they want a change, be that change, good for the UK, or be it bad, that is something that remains to be seen, but it is something that the people have the right to choose, or in fact demand

 

I agree that the UK is going down the pan, but not because of the things that are about to happen, but because of the things that have happened over the last 20 or so years.

 

And this demand for change is spreading.

 

So it is immigrants who are destroying the UK? Don't make me laugh, it is the neo-liberal policies of New Labour and the Cons who have done this. But don't worry they won't get blamed, cos the media will have you blaming immigrants and Muslims.

 

Multiculturalism? You mean people just getting on with each and living together, what a crazy notion that is. Guess you shouldn't be in Thailand then, if you think like that. 

[steve187]

8 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

So it is immigrants who are destroying the UK? Don't make me laugh, it is the neo-liberal policies of New Labour and the Cons who have done this. But don't worry they won't get blamed, cos the media will have you blaming immigrants and Muslims.

 

Multiculturalism? You mean people just getting on with each and living together, what a crazy notion that is. Guess you shouldn't be in Thailand then, if you think like that. 

check my 3rd paragraph '' maybe these immigrants are to blame maybe not ''

 

why do you make it personal against me i just posted  '' multiculturalism has been forced on them by successive governments '' I am not telling you where to live, I am making a point that the British public were never asked.

 

Why have you brought Muslims into it , I never mentioned Muslims

 

If you want to make your views known, then do so with pleasure, just don't quote me to try and make a point about ''neo-liberal policies of New Labour and the Cons'' using me as a spring board

 

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by steve187

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, steve187 said:

How many of these ' workers' are fully legal in the UK, and paying tax, NI, have mortgages and supporting local businesses, how much are they getting in Child benefit, for children that have never been to the UK

 

Have they taken your job?

[steve187]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

Have they taken your job?

taking jobs which were not there in the first place is not my problem, if you want to pay the fiver to have your car washed, go ahead. My occupation was hardly touched by the foreign workers, but then i pay my dues.

 

not paying HMG and being paid to have children in an ex soviet block country is my problem.