Muslims suffer because of Europe’s terror laws – Amnesty

[Kinnock]

Amnesty International seems to have some conflicting goals.  They are campaigning against the repression of women in Iran and Afghanistan, whilst at the same time saying that bans on the Burkha are unjustified.  To be honest they lost all their purpose after South Africa scrapped apartheid and the USSR collapsed, and now they are thrashing around trying to find a purpose. 

 

But glad to see that the UK Police and Security forces are doing a good job!

[simple1]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

ABC news yesterday reported that many ANZAC Day marches will be cancelled because the cost of anti-terrorism security is prohibitive.

 

Off topic, but...The four marches in the Blue Mountains have not been cancelled.

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/01/12/nsw-anzac-marches-go-ahead-after-security-dispute-resolved

 

There was a possibility to cancel a march in MLB due to threats by the extreme right wing protesting about a photo in a sign which included a few Muslim women with hijab, to encourage all communities to attend -picture now removed & march will go ahead. Of course completely ignoring the fact the Turkish government has for years permitted ANZAC Day ceremonies at Gallipoli.

 

[KarenBravo]

The Turkish maybe Muslims, but Turkey is a secular country and the army guards Kemal Attaturk's legacy very jealously.

[alocacoc]

 

 

[stander]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

True. The biggest victims of Islamic terrorism are other Muslims.

Exactly Islam isn't compatible with Islam. Sunni like nothing more than killing Shia and vice versa

[KarenBravo]

........not to mention Sufis, Alawites, Ismailis etc. etc.

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

The Turkish maybe Muslims, but Turkey is a secular country and the army guards Kemal Attaturk's legacy very jealously.

Do you know that Erdogan is in power now?

[Morch]

9 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, a title like this on an OP is asking for xenophobic reactions and will bring out the worst in the right wingers.

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7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why do people keep confusing opinions with facts?

 

Other than offering preemptive generalizations on posters and not even bothering to present opinions (nevermind facts) - nothing?

 

I'm hardly a right winger, and I think Amnesty is losing it year by year. The first and foremost responsibility of governments is toward their own citizens. Granted, that would include Muslim citizens - but not to a degree where their supposed rights outweigh those of others, if this posses a credible risk. Societies are always a compromise, other than in ideological oriented reports and religious texts.

 

Are the current legal issues discussed in the report "disproportional" as claimed? Guess it varies, some are and some aren't. But these measures were not brought about in a vacuum or without context, and to a certain extent they seem excessive as they materialized over a relatively short time. Had European governments been willing to introduce less intrusive measures earlier, and properly apply them, perhaps things would have been different.

[7by7]

11 hours ago, trogers said:

Perhaps Amnesty should first set up their anti-terrorist division and be held responsible on the prevention of terrorist acts, and then submit such a report again...

 

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Yes, Amnesty international should really be campaigning against Islam due to its continual repression, cruelty, persecution and atrocities committed against Muslims and some Europeans.

 

Like this, you mean?
 

Syria: prisoners tortured and summarily killed in secret ISIS detention centres - new briefing

Quote

Amnesty’s briefing shows that in areas ISIS controls, their forces - which claim to apply strict Shari’a (Islamic law) - have committed numerous serious rights abuses, in some cases amounting to war crimes, including unlawful killings, abductions, arbitrary detentions, torture and other ill-treatment. 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by 7by7
Link and quote changed from a news report to Amnesty International's website.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

The Turkish maybe Muslims, but Turkey is a secular country and the army guards Kemal Attaturk's legacy very jealously.

 

The army was pretty much neutered during Erdogan's reign. The latest coup attempt was an utter failure.

[7by7]

It is undisputable that the major terrorism threat, to the West at least, today comes from Islamic extremists; although here in the UK the terrorist threat from Irish Republican terrorists is almost, if not equally, as high.

 

Maybe as well as Muslims,  the UK should round up and imprison all Irish citizens who the security services suspect of having links to terrorism?

 

Well, we tried that in Northern Ireland with Operation Demetrius (internment without trial) and we all know how that turned out!

 

Whatever their motivation, terrorists need somewhere to hide; and, of course, the place where they are most likely to do so successfully is amongst communities of the same or similar backgrounds and ethnicities. In Northern Ireland, Republican terrorists hid amongst the Nationalist, mainly Catholic, communities, Unionist terrorists hid among the Unionist, mainly Protestant, ones; both still do. During their terror campaign in England the IRA hid amongst the Irish communities in England. 

 

Doubtless Islamic terrorists in the West are hiding amongst Muslim communities now.

 

We need those communities on our side. Intelligence gathered from those communities helps the security services; Britain has foiled 10 terror attacks in two years, say police

Quote

“The only way for us to prevent terrorism in this country is for the police to be the public and the public to be the police. Communities will defeat terrorism. Strong, cohesive communities – whatever their religion, race, creed or colour – working together to keep this country safe.”

 

At present they are on our side; as the numerous condemnations of ISIS and other Islamic terrorists from Muslim communities posted many times before in many topics show.

 

Operation Demetrius turned the Nationalist community in Northern Ireland against the British government, increasing approval of, support for and even recruitment to the terrorists.

 

Let's not make the same mistake again.

 

[Stargeezr]

Thanks  Bullie for your report,  there was many times in Canada when I wished I could read a news report like that, but it would have been politically incorrect so was never written.  Europe is on its way to complete disaster, and only this Amnesty group would try to defend the poor Muslims, who by the way are just starting to do the attacks, I will wait 2 or 3 more years to see just how bad the ISIL and other terror groups get to be within Europe and other countries before I get stupid enough to defend any of them.  I also hate getting woke up by any one at 5AM especially if it is some call to prayer by some other religion that is not even remotely close to mine.

Geezer

[stevenl]

 
Other than offering preemptive generalizations on posters and not even bothering to present opinions (nevermind facts) - nothing?
 
I'm hardly a right winger, and I think Amnesty is losing it year by year. The first and foremost responsibility of governments is toward their own citizens. Granted, that would include Muslim citizens - but not to a degree where their supposed rights outweigh those of others, if this posses a credible risk. Societies are always a compromise, other than in ideological oriented reports and religious texts.
 
Are the current legal issues discussed in the report "disproportional" as claimed? Guess it varies, some are and some aren't. But these measures were not brought about in a vacuum or without context, and to a certain extent they seem excessive as they materialized over a relatively short time. Had European governments been willing to introduce less intrusive measures earlier, and properly apply them, perhaps things would have been different.

I'm not a big fan of amnesty myself. But you took the second quote completely out of context. And yes, a title like this has only two purposes, getting xenophobic reactions and increasing click count.

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[thai3]

47 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

It is undisputable that the major terrorism threat, to the West at least, today comes from Islamic extremists; although here in the UK the terrorist threat from Irish Republican terrorists is almost, if not equally, as high.

 

 

 

Er no the IRA are in no way an equal threat to the UK as Islamic terrorists, you are going back over 20 years, to claim that they are is utter nonsense, maybe you would like it to be true though?

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I'm not a big fan of amnesty myself. But you took the second quote completely out of context. And yes, a title like this has only two purposes, getting xenophobic reactions and increasing click count.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

You mean in a Man Bites Dog kinda way?

[whatawonderfulday]

Actually with around 2 billion Muslims in the world,  the world has a problem.  the good news is that statistically they ( Muslims) kill/murder) more of their own then other religions.  So ultimately it is the "Lemming principal" that will resolve the problem rather than washy washy,  PC correct, limp wristed politicians in the West.

[7by7]

24 minutes ago, thai3 said:

 

Er no the IRA are in no way an equal threat to the UK as Islamic terrorists, you are going back over 20 years, to claim that they are is utter nonsense, maybe you would like it to be true though?

 

I did not say the IRA, I said Irish republican terrorists are a threat today.

 

Unless you know more than MI5!

 

I am not going back over 20 years; this from last May: Northern Ireland terror threat level raised in Great Britain

 

 

[Pdaz]

Any believer in Islam who is not comfortable or satisified with their life in the majority Christian West should be encouraged to emigrate to an islamic country.

There they will be free to practice their chosen religion without the temptations of alcohol, unclean food, scantily dressed women and easily groomed vunerable schoolgirls...  Don't let the door hit you in the a*** on your way out...

[TGIR]

12 hours ago, thai3 said:

Muslims being portrayed as the persecuted victims again, when the reality is everyone, Muslims included, are the victims of the violence, hate and divisive nature of Islam

 

As I read this I wondered, not for the first time,  of all the Muslim countries, how many receive immigrants from those countries who are at war with themselves or others?  How many immigrants are there in total and where have they gone, country by country?  And, even curiouser still,  how are the warring countries such as Syria relieved of taking care of their own citizens??

[catinthehat]

I also take exception to the articles title. My suggestion would read "More Muslims" charged.....

[thai3]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

I did not say the IRA, I said Irish republican terrorists are a threat today.

 

Unless you know more than MI5!

 

I am not going back over 20 years; this from last May: Northern Ireland terror threat level raised in Great Britain

 

 

whatever you said it's still off topic which is about Muslims, not the Irish republican movement,

[Jonmarleesco]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

And the narrative right now is that if you are a Muslim or a refugee or a migrant, you are a threat.”

Heaven forbid. And no doubt her narrative would change in an instant were she or her friends or relatives targeted in a terrorist outrage.

[halloween]

12 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Off topic, but...The four marches in the Blue Mountains have not been cancelled.

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/01/12/nsw-anzac-marches-go-ahead-after-security-dispute-resolved

 

There was a possibility to cancel a march in MLB due to threats by the extreme right wing protesting about a photo in a sign which included a few Muslim women with hijab, to encourage all communities to attend -picture now removed & march will go ahead. Of course completely ignoring the fact the Turkish government has for years permitted ANZAC Day ceremonies at Gallipoli.

 

You just don't get it, do you? Why do the authorities feel it is necessary to have anti-terrorism security at ANZAC day marches, and why are the taxpayers wasting valuable resources? Should we feel grateful for this change in our society?

 

And what does activities in Turkey have to do with perceived terrorism threats in Oz?

[simple1]

5 hours ago, halloween said:

You just don't get it, do you? Why do the authorities feel it is necessary to have anti-terrorism security at ANZAC day marches, and why are the taxpayers wasting valuable resources? Should we feel grateful for this change in our society?

 

And what does activities in Turkey have to do with perceived terrorism threats in Oz?

 

On the other side of the coin why do 'authorities' have to surrender to threats by the extreme right - double standards on your part by blaming only one group.

 

The comment regards Turkey should be glaringly obvious as the extreme right posted threats against encouraging Muslims attending ANZAC Day in Australia whilst Turkish authorities have for years both permitted and provided security for non Muslims to attend ceremonies celebrating ANZAC Day, for a campaign that led to 85,000 Turkish deaths . As the Turks can be magnanimous, why not Australians?

[jinners]

On 1/18/2017 at 7:55 AM, Bullie said:

Amnesty is out of its it's tiny, leftist mind. I don't see islam suffering in the Netherlands. On the contrary, it's thriving, mosk's going up all over the place, breeding like rabbits., getting fat on unemployment, housing and child benefits. Over 65 % is unemployed, and not contributing to our society. Meanwhile they commit crimes 4 times more often than non-muslims (70 % of maroccan men between 15 and 25 have a police-record) and are generally behaving as if they own the place.

And that's just the non-radical muslims.

Due to the fascist nature of political islam Europe is in turmoil and fear due to persistent terrorist attacks. 70 % of the Dutch muslims condones radical salafistic islam. Everywhere we go there is now a strongly armed police presence, and increasingly invasive checks at every venue.

I can go on and on, but the real victims here, the people that have to suffer fear, discomfort, pent-up anger and straight out discrimination (I am, for instance, a xenofobic islamofobic right wing radical in the eyes of amnesty) are not the migrant muslims, they are the original European population.

Vote for someone that will kick the <deleted> out, while you still have a chance.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/18/2017 at 1:55 PM, Bullie said:

Amnesty is out of its it's tiny, leftist mind. I don't see islam suffering in the Netherlands. On the contrary, it's thriving, mosk's going up all over the place, breeding like rabbits., getting fat on unemployment, housing and child benefits. Over 65 % is unemployed, and not contributing to our society. Meanwhile they commit crimes 4 times more often than non-muslims (70 % of maroccan men between 15 and 25 have a police-record) and are generally behaving as if they own the place.

And that's just the non-radical muslims.

Due to the fascist nature of political islam Europe is in turmoil and fear due to persistent terrorist attacks. 70 % of the Dutch muslims condones radical salafistic islam. Everywhere we go there is now a strongly armed police presence, and increasingly invasive checks at every venue.

I can go on and on, but the real victims here, the people that have to suffer fear, discomfort, pent-up anger and straight out discrimination (I am, for instance, a xenofobic islamofobic right wing radical in the eyes of amnesty) are not the migrant muslims, they are the original European population.

As I understand it, Amnesty was set up to help people banged up for political reasons, so why are they getting into stuff that is nowhere near their reason for being?

[7by7]

20 hours ago, thai3 said:

whatever you said it's still off topic which is about Muslims, not the Irish republican movement,

 

The topic is about how innocent members of communities who do not support terrorism in any way are blamed by ignorant, prejudiced people for the actions of those terrorists merely because they have something in common with the terrorists.

 

As I said, the UK government made a huge mistake with Operation Demetrius; a mistake which led to a swelling of approval of, support for and recruitment to the terrorists.

 

Let's not make that mistake again.

 

As I also said, alienating the innocent members of a community, in this case the Muslim community, will only lead to the intelligence the security services receive from members of that community diminishing, possibly even ceasing completely.

 

The fact that you have not even attempted to counter those points speaks volumes.

[alocacoc]

By the way;

Arabic is now the second most common language in Sweden.

Before it was Finnish.

 

[thai3]

37 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The topic is about how innocent members of communities who do not support terrorism in any way are blamed by ignorant, prejudiced people for the actions of those terrorists merely because they have something in common with the terrorists.

 

 

No it's not, you are trying to change the topic, again. It is about AI's report on just one community, the Muslim one and one that causes more problems and terrorism than any other in Europe, face up to it.

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The topic is about how innocent members of communities who do not support terrorism in any way are blamed by ignorant, prejudiced people for the actions of those terrorists merely because they have something in common with the terrorists.

 

As I said, the UK government made a huge mistake with Operation Demetrius; a mistake which led to a swelling of approval of, support for and recruitment to the terrorists.

 

Let's not make that mistake again.

 

As I also said, alienating the innocent members of a community, in this case the Muslim community, will only lead to the intelligence the security services receive from members of that community diminishing, possibly even ceasing completely.

 

The fact that you have not even attempted to counter those points speaks volumes.

 

The topic is about how innocent members of communities who do not support terrorism in any way are blamed by ignorant, prejudiced people for the actions of those terrorists merely because they have something in common with the terrorists.

 

Nope. The topic is about assertions made by Amnesty that Europe anti-terror legislation might discriminate against Muslims. It is not as vehement as your presentation nor an absolute truth.

 

And the options are not either/or. It is not that anti-terrorism rules are all bad, unneeded or counterproductive. If it was up to Amnesty the deterioration in security conditions would be considered secondary to certain groups rights. I'm pretty sure that such legislation is not enacted without input from professionals, who are aware of the cons and pros. Obviously, not all subscribe to your point of view, or see the scenarios as similar.