Unacceptable Treatment

[pampal]

 As I was stepping off my Doha-Bkk flight, I was accosted at the gate by what seemed to be Customs officers who were talking to people who had duty free bags with them. They looked inside mine and found two cartons(400 total) of cigs. I was shouted at in broken english and thai and was told I had too many cigs. I was followed the entire way by 4 customs officers and after passport control and luggage, I went to the red customs line and declared I had two cartons(400 total) of cigs. They replied the smoking area is outside, I again told them I had two cartons of cigs and they ignored me. So I went into the green line and I was again accosted by 6 customs officers who x-rayed my bags and then told me to go on my way. I left customs and emerged into the human maelstrom known as the arrivals hall. I made my way outside to smoke a cig.

I noticed two men with customs jackets were watching and following me. After I smoked my cig, I was on my way to the metered taxi area when I was again accosted by semi-official customs jacket wearing people who told me the police wanted to see me. I asked why and they replied too many cigs. I told them I went through customs and declared my cigs, but they said we still want to talk to you. I agreed to go inside the terminal as we were outside at this time, and as soon I got inside the terminal they told me everything is OK and that I can go. What is going ON?

Give me Don Meuang any day of the week.

Soowanapoom Sucks

[ThaiGoon]

So may I ask how that incident had anything to do with the new airport, the physical structure, itself?

[pampal]

thaigoon you may ask anything you like, but if you check the name of this forum, this is the Suvarnabhumi airport forum and it's not limited to discussions on the building or the physical structure of the airport. It's a forum for the discussion on anything relate to the aforementioned airport, including problems,taxi fares, limousines, hotels etc...

So what is your question really, or haven't you looked at the name of the forum you are posting in.

Read before you write, genius

[lomatopo]

There have been a number of threads here about increased vigilance/enforcement re: duty free allowances at the new airport. Some people have described being held in a police facility for a few hours and being fined huge amounts. The duty-free allowance for cigarettes is 200 (or 250 grams of tobacco/cigars), and as far as I know one cannot simply declare, by filling out the required form (211), extra cigarettes and pay the duty via the "red lane" as it is is illegal for individuals to import cigarettes. It is probably adviseable to stick to the duty-free limits.

[brahmburgers]

I'm with you Pampal. The management at the new airport is doing a deplorable job. They can't rein in rogue pseudo 'customs agents' who aren't agents and who only contribute to travelers' disgust and stress at arriving in 'Land of Smiles.' And management is clueless in how to address the problem of thugs harassing tourists trying to get stress-free and relatively low-cost transit in to the city. The management there should be hauled in to court - charged with dereliction of duty, and possibly also 'endangering lives.' heightened stress levels lead to heart attacks and it's not wildly imaginative to think that a tourists who does not meekly comply with such thuggish demands might be physically accosted. Future Headline: "foreign tourist gets kicked and punched for not opening his suitcases for plainclothes men at airport to rifle through." or "Tourist succumbs to heart attack after being verbally harrassed for not waiting in the proper queu for a limousine." Not far-fetched - if you're familiar with Thai methods of persuation.

[ThaiGoon]

thaigoon you may ask anything you like, but if you check the name of this forum, this is the Suvarnabhumi airport forum and it's not limited to discussions on the building or the physical structure of the airport. It's a forum for the discussion on anything relate to the aforementioned airport, including problems,taxi fares, limousines, hotels etc...

So what is your question really, or haven't you looked at the name of the forum you are posting in.

Read before you write, genius

I understood that you were complaining about the treatment you got from some custom officials at the new airport. But for some reason that I couldn't connect how that led you to conclude that "Soowanapoom Sucks" and "Give me Don Meuang any day of the week." as I understand that those same custom officials would likely have worked at Don Muang too....and the physical structure, itself, couldn't do anything about it. Also, if you had followed the rules and regulation regarding the amount of cigs you could bring as posted by lomatopo above, you might not have run into that problem.

[pampal]

Thai goon,

for some unknown reason you think that everything is related to the physical structure of the new airport.

I have passed through don meuang for many years and never saw customs acting in the manner that they are at Suvarnabhumi, and I was never accosted outside Don Meuang by pseudo customs agents, so what does the physical structure have to do with it, I don't know but maybe you do. So let us know please.

Also soowanpoom sucks because of the new attitude which didn't exist at the old airport. Like being accosted by questionable people inside and outside of the physical structure of the airport. since the new airport is bigger than the old one(ie:designed for more passengers), the AOT have had to employ new people and they are not properly trained or experienced(ie:problems for passengers). as far as duty free allowances go, customs regulations state that you can bring anything into customs at a port of entry and declare them, if entry is forbidden, you may send the prohibited items out or surrender them to customs for destruction. As I clearly declared my extra cigs, the thai customs had the option of forbidding their entry, as they did not, there is no problem even if I had a container full of cigs. They were legally declared and customs had every opportunity to tax, or

confiscate my cigs, as they did not, then my importation of said items was completely legal. Duty free allowances are in place so you know if you have more than allowed, you pay duty, hence they are not duty free. By the way, duty means taxes as in Baht.

So again, we are discussing why customs and free lance customs don't abide by their own regulations, and what we are not discussing in this thread is the physical structure of suvarnabhumi. You can start a thread on the toilets and really get a good discussion of the physical structure on a different thread.

 

[Tywais]

as far as duty free allowances go, customs regulations state that you can bring anything into customs at a port of entry and declare them, if entry is forbidden, you may send the prohibited items out or surrender them to customs for destruction. As I clearly declared my extra cigs, the thai customs had the option of forbidding their entry, as they did not, there is no problem even if I had a container full of cigs. They were legally declared and customs had every opportunity to tax, or confiscate my cigs, as they did not, then my importation of said items was completely legal.

There's a bit more to it then that and you should consider yourself lucky that this didn't happen to you > Hugh Fines on Arrival

[ThaiGoon]

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough to a "genius" like you. My point was that it's not fair to complain that the whole new airport sucks just because you ran into some incompetent custom officers. When I went to school and had a bad teacher or had a runin with an incompetent janitor, I was sensible enough to not conclude that the entire school sucked.

Edited December 11, 2006 by ThaiGoon

[pampal]

as far as duty free allowances go, customs regulations state that you can bring anything into customs at a port of entry and declare them, if entry is forbidden, you may send the prohibited items out or surrender them to customs for destruction. As I clearly declared my extra cigs, the thai customs had the option of forbidding their entry, as they did not, there is no problem even if I had a container full of cigs. They were legally declared and customs had every opportunity to tax, or confiscate my cigs, as they did not, then my importation of said items was completely legal.

There's a bit more to it then that and you should consider yourself lucky that this didn't happen to you > Hugh Fines on Arrival

I can see your point but if you read the article pertaining to the link, you would see that these lads never declared their cigs, that was their mistake. If customs has to search your bags (ie: they were not declared) then you are in big trouble. that's why there is a red line, for people who have something to declare as in extra cigs. The people in the article took the green lane which is for people who don't have anything to declare. so the situation is not the same.I declared my cigs where as they tried to hide theirs. They were actually smuggling whereas I was dealing with the situation according to the law. which says you should declare anything more than your duty free allowance and pay duty. so it's not the same situation or circumstances. Which means the two are unrelated, but thanks for reading the thread and putting in your two cents worth.

[pampal]

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough to a "genius" like you. My point was that it's not fair to complain that the whole new airport sucks just because you ran into some incompetent custom officers. When I went to school and had a bad teacher or had a runin with an incompetent janitor, I was sensible enough to not conclude that the entire school sucked.

thaigoon,

Let me make it crystal clear for you, any place that you visit (church,school,airport) is only as good as the people operating it. You might arrive at an architecturally perfect airport manned by complete idiots who are ignorant of their own laws. Your experience of that airport will not be limited to how many toilets there  are

in the terminal, it will also involve the human factor.

How you were treated by (airline personnel, airport workers, immigration officers, customs, touts in arrival, taxis,) will make up the majority of your interaction at your chosen venue. Although the artwork in the terminal or the position of the toilets  have some effect on your experience at Suvarnabhumi, the human element will have the most impact. I hope I have made things more clear for you.

And no this doesn't involve the physical structure of the airport.

[Maestro]

I agreed to go inside the terminal as we were outside at this time, and as soon I got inside the terminal they told me everything is OK and that I can go. What is going ON?

The fact that everything was OK once you got back inside the building is a strong indication that the men who accosted you were not genuine customs or other government officials.

It was good of you to post your experience, Pampal, so that others may be forewarned. Are we getting to the point where arriving passengers need a police escort to leave safely from the airport?

--

Maestro

[Axel]

....The duty-free allowance for cigarettes is 200 (or 250 grams of tobacco/cigars), and as far as I know one cannot simply declare, by filling out the required form (211), extra cigarettes and pay the duty via the "red lane" as it is is illegal for individuals to import cigarettes. It is probably adviseable to stick to the duty-free limits.

Agreed, there is no allowance to pay duty and VAT on cigarettes as the only party allowed to do so is the Monopoly.

Required form (211), What is this, there is no form to declare customs. One either walks through green or through red.

[jingjoe]

Thai goon may not agree with me, but I think it's good of you to post your encounter to discuss further, and add too.

Hopefully these over zealous, power tripping c/suckers (pseudo customs officers) are the exception rather than the rule.

Edited December 11, 2006 by jingjoe

[chuchok]

I agreed to go inside the terminal as we were outside at this time, and as soon I got inside the terminal they told me everything is OK and that I can go. What is going ON?

The fact that everything was OK once you got back inside the building is a strong indication that the men who accosted you were not genuine customs or other government officials.

It was good of you to post your experience, Pampal, so that others may be forewarned. Are we getting to the point where arriving passengers need a police escort to leave safely from the airport?

--

Maestro

In my home country,Customs Officers have more power than the Police.Do you really think that a Customs officer has to be in "the building"?

[lomatopo]

Required form (211), What is this, there is no form to declare customs. One either walks through green or through red.

Form 211 is a "Passenger Declaration Form". It used to be required that every arriving passenger complete this form, even if they had nothing to declare. It was usually handed out on the aircraft prior to landing at BKK. A few years ago they did away with the requirement so now only passengers with something to declare need to fill out this form. Presumably the OP completed this form. One just doesn't walk through the red lane loudly mentioning the dutiable items that they have to "declare".

Again, AFAIK, one cannot bring in (past Customs) tobacco/alcohol products over the duty free limit even if they wish to declare them and pay applicable duty. Individuals cannot import tobacco/alcohol products. In theory those items declared, above the limit, should be confiscated without penalty. Items above the limit that are not declared are subject penalty (fines), and possibly prosecution.

And if one abids by the published duty-free allowances then one can avoid the sort of "unacceptable treatment" that the OP experienced.

[Heng]

Yeah, just as likely to happen at Don Muang. Same officials, you just got unlucky is all.

[Heng]

One just doesn't walk through the red lane loudly mentioning the dutiable items that they have to "declare".

[Rinrada]

The moral of the story is... Dont bring any FAGs in LOS ...you can get them there if your that desperate .......suberree ..mai mee...

[Axel]

No, you cannot get Camel w/o filter in LOS. So hand carry is the only way.

[Maestro]

In my home country,Customs Officers have more power than the Police.Do you really think that a Customs officer has to be in "the building"?

Outside the building, the OP was harassed by these unidentified men. When the OP brought them back into the building, they suddenly said everything was OK. Would genuine customs officers act like that? I have serious doubts. Haven’t you, Chuchok?

--

Maestro

[Axel]

Required form (211), What is this, there is no form to declare customs. One either walks through green or through red.

Form 211 is a "Passenger Declaration Form". It used to be required that every arriving passenger complete this form, even if they had nothing to declare. It was usually handed out on the aircraft prior to landing at BKK. A few years ago they did away with the requirement so now only passengers with something to declare need to fill out this form. Presumably the OP completed this form. One just doesn't walk through the red lane loudly mentioning the dutiable items that they have to "declare".

...

I thought the customs form had been completely abolished.

If I have something to declare I walk through red and stop at the alert officers, manning the station. No need to loudly declare, this might just upset them or makes your case more difficult.

Just tell them nicely what you have and they either send you to the green channel or are happy with a small contribution for their holiday collection box.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Axel

[ThaiGoon]

Ahh..I guess I still didn't make myself clear enough to the genius that a bad experience with a few inept custom officers didn't really equate to the stink of the whole airport. I didn't expect that this point was this hard to understand really.

[britmaveric]

Cheaper buy ciggies in thailand, better off and less hassle.

[tartempion]

So may I ask how that incident had anything to do with the new airport, the physical structure, itself?

Then where should he post his experience? In the Dong Muang tread maybe?

You forgot the huge hassle posted here a few weeks back on Savanaboum customs fining people with huge fines because they bought too many cigs at their port of origin? Was this an urban myth then?

[ThaiGoon]

So may I ask how that incident had anything to do with the new airport, the physical structure, itself?

Then where should he post his experience? In the Dong Muang tread maybe?

You forgot the huge hassle posted here a few weeks back on Savanaboum customs fining people with huge fines because they bought too many cigs at their port of origin? Was this an urban myth then?

I didn't say that he wasn't supposed to post it in this forum. My point was that it's not right or sensible to say that the whole airport sucked just because of a bad experience he had with a few dubious custom officers. Hope I've made myself clear enough this time.

[Axel]

The OP mentioned among others "I was again accosted by semi-official customs jacket wearing people"

Assuming these guys indeed have been customs officers, I see nothing really wrong with the procedure.

Two examples I remember

a) Zurich-airport: After passing through green was stopped (not only once) by a fellow in civilian at the door before entering arrival greeting area. Identified himself as Customs officer, queried my passing through green and asked me to go back and declare with an officer at the customs counter.

Vienna-airport: Walked through red, declared some ballpens (100 pieces) and while waiting for the receipt had a good chance to watch a battery of monitors showing the whole airport area including carpark. The officer than confirmed to me, that they do view all areas and when seeing, for example, a passenger who just arrived handing some cigarette-carton(s) to somebody else, he notifies his colleague over there....

Had a similar experience one in Singapore. At curb-side lit up and was approached by customs officers who identified themselves as such. Wanted to know how I can have a cigarette when I am not allowed to bring any into the country. Obviously they watched me on survey-cameras.

[bluebear]

if you had followed the rules and regulation regarding the amount of cigs you could bring as posted by lomatopo above, you might not have run into that problem.

Same thought occurred to me. Amazing the number of people who complain about the corruption and lack of laws in LOS and then when they are applied they complain!

Duty free limits are there for a reason, its up to the traveller to make sure they comply or take the risk of being caught and facing the consequences.

[Crushdepth]

QUOTE(ThaiGoon @ 2006-12-11 13:05:46) *

if you had followed the rules and regulation regarding the amount of cigs you could bring as posted by lomatopo above, you might not have run into that problem.

Same thought occurred to me. Amazing the number of people who complain about the corruption and lack of laws in LOS and then when they are applied they complain!

He did not break the law - he tried to declare his cigarettes. Applying the law after ignoring his attempt to follow it is unreasonable.

Did these uniformed officials have / show any ID?

[pampal]

Thanks for everyone's input.

Duty Free allowances exist so that you know how much you may import duty free. There is no limitation on passengers importation of tobacco/alcohol. There are only duty free limits. Anything more than the limit is subject to duty(Baht),hence not duty free. Some people on this thread insist on making their own laws through somekind of flawed logic. The monopoly on tobacco exists for commercial enterprises who wish to import commercial amounts of tobacco. So please don't invent your own laws/limits as to what is allowed and what is not because you are distorting the truth. If the amounts in my possesion were illegal, why were they not confiscated and I fined?  Because the laws allow you to bring in more than the allowance as long as the duty is paid and customs had every opportunity, at least 3 times, to collect duty or confiscate. So why didn't they do so? Because they felt that the amounts in my possesion were

 reasonable for a short stay.

Outside the terminal,at no point was Identifaction offered and when I inquired, they became very shy. So that led me to believe they were disgenuine. Also, who said I went into the red line and loudly declared my cigs. I went into the red line and very courteously declared my cigs. As the customs officers working the red line saw I only had a small amount over the limit, they told me to go into the green line, so please don't add adjectives of your own making into my predicament. Axel,you may be loud and obnoxious, but I am not. And to thaigoon, dont' hate-appreciate.

BTW, when are you gonna start your thread on toilet size at Suvarnabhumi. After all, that's what one's experience at an airport is limited to.