Thai ex-wife wants to give /transfer land to my children (mother is new Thai wife)

[Lomsak]

Thai ex-wife wants to give /transfer land she owns to my children (mother is new Thai wife)

 

Ex Wife:

very kindly wants to give me back land I originally bought in her name.

insistent chanote must be in my boy’s names.

(can appreciate she would not agree to put chanote into my new Thai wife’s name.)

Understand this can be done at the land office, but the boys need to be on a Tabian Baan.

But My new wife:

insistent that the boys are not put on Tabian Baan, as she worries about conscription in the future

Happy that the land/chanote is for them in the future.

So, assuming that the land cannot be put directly into the boy’s names, what other options/solutions should we consider.?

All parties concerned agree and want a solution that guarantees in the future the land is in my boys name, so they have some inheritance.

Any simple solutions?

Trying to find a compromise solution, so we get the land, its secure, and passes/ boys own at some future time.

(aware, with ever increasing taxation, transferring to the boy’s names in the future may be   expensive)

notes

Clearly if land put into my new Thai wife’s name, no guarantee it would be passed to my boys in the future.

Clearly as falang cannot be in my name, and I am retired with not limitless years to go…

The boys are under 6 years old, and do not have Thai ID cards or registered on a tabian Baan.

I have remarried another Thai and have two very young boys.

They do not live in Thailand.

They have UK and Thai passports

Ex-wife may accept solution, if guaranteed my new Thai wife is only guardian until they 18.

The transfer sale from ex-wife may be as a gift, or more likely at a nominal amount.

This land is a valuable asset even if you ignore the inflated land office valuation.

no matter whose name on chanote, I would also insist on a 30-year lease in my name, so I have complete security and peace of mind while I am alive. Just peace of mind that I cannot be thrown off the land during my lifetime.

If the transfer of the chanote is done, then I would probably retire and build house for myself on this land.

Sale Taxes and transfer costs significant (especially the withholding tax), but not relevant/ the issue

Land has full chanote with no loans or impairments, and been owned by ex-wife for a long time.

 

[blackcab]

Big post.

 

The key thing is that your sons (later on in life) will not be able to get a Thai ID card without being entered into a house book. This will limit them if they intended living in Thai society.

 

Personally I would get them in a house book and transfer the land in their names. If they are not in the country they will not be doing any military service anyway. At 30 they will be permanently exempt after visiting the relevant office and explaining.

 

If the land is transferred to your sons you will not be able to get a lease, usufruct or any other encumbrance set against the land. This is because a minor cannot be disadvantaged in this way by anyone (even their parents or gyardians) without the permission of the Family Court - which you will need extremely unlikely to obtain. 

[Lomsak]

many thanks for very prompt and detailed reply.

 

Putting the boys on tabian Baan - new Thai wife adamant -.no way..

secondly no security for me, would feel uncomfortable building and living with the possibility (albeit small) that I could be thrown off

 

Or put the chanote in my new wife’s name. - on its own not acceptable to ex-wife.

 

But find some legal (not Thai semi legal) method or irrevocable document to ensure

1: the boys get the land in future, or they need to sign to sell.

2: Thai wife cannot sell without permission (i.e.: from her two boys or me if I put a lease on the land)

Pity you cannot have restrictions on a chanote, or irrevocable will for Thai wife.

 

Otherwise no guarantee in the future

1: the boys will get the land. 

2: New Thai wife promise to give to them ever happens. (or claims when she passes away, or remarries after I am gone.) 

 

Background is that I no longer have the capital I used to have, and this chanote would provide us with the land (to build family home) and no need to buy. Would make a big difference. 

Secondly, it’s in good location and a valuable asset based on land offices valuation. with my shortage of funds, that’s not to be dismissed lightly.   

 

Real dilemma!

Any other thoughts\ solutions much appreciated, as would be great shame to lose this one-off opportunity from ex-wife.

 

[blackcab]

Why is your new wife so adamant your children should not be entered in a house book? For all your new wife knows, their mother could have already done it, and unless you have full custody, can do it at any time. They can be entered into any house book, anywhere, at any time. It simply requires the head of household to agree. A complete stranger at the other end of the country can agree to enter them into his house book. It makes no difference.

 

I'm not a marriage guidance counsellor, but this is a matter between you and your children, not you, your children and your new wife.

 

I know one thing: the property is as safe as it can possibly be until the children both reach 20. At that point they would both have to agree to sell at the same time. If you think both your kids would kick you out on the street, there are other options. In my opinion this is the safest way forward.

 

What are your thoughts?

[realenglish1]

I think you need to look at your current wifes motives

 

[Bkk Andy]

The lease with approval to build house on it would have to be registered on the land before the transfer of the land into a minors name.  Once transferred to children transactions on the land would have to be approved by a court.

 

May be best to record lease now, build house owned by you, then transfer land to the boys. 

 

Agree with other posters I don't understand concern about conscription outweighing their having an inheritance. 

 

Could they not be deleted from the house book in a few years, well before reaching 20.?

 

[LivinLOS]

20 hours ago, blackcab said:

A complete stranger at the other end of the country can agree to enter them into his house book. It makes no difference.

 

^^ this.. Hell we have used rental houses for tabien baan registrations.. 

 

Put them on a book.. Get the land.. Remove them if needed.. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Bkk Andy said:

The lease with approval to build house on it would have to be registered on the land before the transfer of the land into a minors name.  Once transferred to children transactions on the land would have to be approved by a court.

 

May be best to record lease now, build house owned by you, then transfer land to the boys. 

 

Agree with other posters I don't understand concern about conscription outweighing their having an inheritance. 

 

Could they not be deleted from the house book in a few years, well before reaching 20.?

 

I agree with Bkk Andy that safeguarding the boys' inheritance would outweigh their having to make sure they avoid military service, assuming they don't move to Thailand.  Get a lease and planning permission under the current ownership and then transfer the land to the boys.  The Land Office would then most likely make you cancel the lease before transferring ownership to your sons.  I think that Thai citizens can only be removed from house books to be moved to another one or in the event of death.  It would make sense to transfer them to a house book at their own address, if you build on it and get a house number.  Then there is never any need to transfer them again, unless they move to Thailand and want to transfer to another book.  

 

If you don't want the boys to have to deal with being on a tabien baan and having ID cards, the only other viable option is probably to get the ex to sell the land and transfer the proceeds to you to invest on behalf of the boys.  I don't think leasing the land from the ex a long-term solution is a good idea, as that would just solidify her ownership of the land and she could sell it any time to someone who might refuse to honour your lease.

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

The most easy thing to arrange and protect the property not to be sold or given away to somebody you don't approve is to register the constructions on the land to your name at the local land office.

At least that will give time to look at all your options.

[scorecard]

On 2/6/2017 at 3:14 PM, blackcab said:

Big post.

 

The key thing is that your sons (later on in life) will not be able to get a Thai ID card without being entered into a house book. This will limit them if they intended living in Thai society.

 

Personally I would get them in a house book and transfer the land in their names. If they are not in the country they will not be doing any military service anyway. At 30 they will be permanently exempt after visiting the relevant office and explaining.

 

If the land is transferred to your sons you will not be able to get a lease, usufruct or any other encumbrance set against the land. This is because a minor cannot be disadvantaged in this way by anyone (even their parents or gyardians) without the permission of the Family Court - which you will need extremely unlikely to obtain. 

In other words:

 

- Yes the land can be transferred to a young boy using the boys' name on the chanut.

 

- After transfer to the boy's name the land cannot be sold until he reaches majority and then of course up to him whether he wants to sell or not. Only way around this is by an order of the family court which is close to impossible to get.  

[Arkady]

38 minutes ago, avocadowangnamkeouw said:

The most easy thing to arrange and protect the property not to be sold or given away to somebody you don't approve is to register the constructions on the land to your name at the local land office.

At least that will give time to look at all your options.

 

You can do that as long as you have a lease on the land which is  not easily possible while the owner is a minor.  You can even get a title deed in your own name as a foreigner for the house you build on the land but that would only allow you to remove the house or its building materials, if the lease expires.  As long as the land is owned by someone else other than immediate family who are on the same page as you, your rights to the house you build remain tenuous.

[Pigdog747]

Trust is  funny thing and when it comes to money I trust few. Not saying it will happen but if you put the land in you new wife's name, your sons may never see the land ... who can say if you'll still be together when the boys turn 20 plus if you have children with your new wife, her son will likely inherit the bulk of the land and there will be nothing you can do about it.   Why don't you lease the land from your ex-wife for what ever years need be until the boys are over 20. At that time your Ex-wife can transfer the land to the boys or leave it to them in her will.

[SiSePuede419]

Foreigners can't own land in Thailand....

 

Amazing the number of foreigners who "think" they actually own land, though ?

[tifino]

 

the boys can evade their Military Conscription, by selecting the  Monk Service Option instead.

 

 

 

New wife needs to find a better excuse to cover her agenda

[thailand49]

This is a legal question that should be answer by a lawyer period.

You are lucky very lucky your ex-wife is giving land to basically someone else kids. 

I think here, regardless of the kids there is a 50% chance that your marriage isn't going to work either.

Personally based on the first statement.  This is a legal question your trying to answer for yourself, ex, and current wife that is why you are stuck.  Get all parties together go see a lawyer and get the right answer.  I have it already but I'm not a real lawyer that is what you need. The solution is really simple but you won't find it here.

[Steiner]

Do you really need the next 40 posters to tell you what you already know,  your new wife is after the money. 

So the boys go to the army for a couple of years,  what does that have to do with them owning land? Nada. 

It's not like the army would conscript the land! 

She wants to steal your kids land,  what a cow. 

She has an agenda,  and is using the standard thin to ridiculous Thai logic to justify it. 

 

Based on your post,  it looks like you picked the wrong one ;-) 

[Deepinthailand]

All very easy get your ex wife to put the kids in her blue book problem solved. She can then transfer land to them no problem. This way it has nothing to do with current wife and if the worst came to the worst. She will have no claim on it