CM traffic blitz around moat

[wadsy]

Yesterday I got stopped by traffic police, assisted by some Australian dude with 'traffic police liason' emblazoned all over him while riding my motorcycle around the moat and was asked to produce my licence. I have a current and motorcycle rated Australian licence and he wanted my IDP as well. I've been coming on and off here for 10 years and have previously researched this and  I told him that according to the Thai Motot Vehicle Act, Thailand accepted other country drivers licences if there was a treaty between the countries and you were a tourist, Australia being one of the countries there is a treaty with. He basically told me I was wrong and the fine was 400 baht, took me over to the Thai checkpoint where I was given a ticket and had to pay. I'm like <deleted>. 

Double checking the relevant part of the Act last night it clearly states as follows:

 

"Section 42
Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver’s license. The driver must carry the driver’s license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn’t have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver’s license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2
In case there’s a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver’s license, an alien who doesn’t have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license issued by such a foreign government, OR an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government."

What's the go, does anyone know if this is now changed. The key word above is OR, not AND I believe this dude is wrong. I might point out that there were dozens of farang being pinged for this in the time I was there as well. Its not the money, I couldn't give a rats, but the principle. It seems to me they guy clearly doesn't know the Act and is doing this to anyone who doesn't have an IDP as well.  I tried calling various tourist police numbers yesterday to try and clear this up but to no avail. Anyone know? Thanks.

 

[MrBrad]

The key word is underlined here: " and show them to competent officers upon request. "

[noise]

Have you search on the web and found there is such a treaty between Thailand and Australia regarding driver's licenses?  What you quoted (l copied below) only says IF A TREATY EXISTS, it does not say one does exist.

 

I am not trying to gratuitously argue with you.  I just deal with this issue fairly frequently and the answer will be useful to me. 

 

Section 42-2
In case there’s a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver’s license, an alien who doesn’t have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license issued by such a foreign government, OR an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government."

[FolkGuitar]

I see the line that states:

" If the driver is an alien who doesn’t have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver’s license "

 

... especially the clause that says " he must carry documents specified by the treaty."

Is it possible that this required document is the IDP?

 

There is a major crackdown on traffic violations these days, currently dealing with helmets and paperwork. And it's having a positive effect. I see more and more people riding with helmets these days. Perhaps one day they will begin to tag the red-light runners, illegal turn makers, and speeders.

[wadsy]

Reading the 'Conventions on Road Traffic' I note that the one in 1949 lists Australia as well as Thailand as a signatory but the one in 1968 does not, however it does state that further on that, " Countries that have not ratified the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic of 1968 remain parties of the Geneva Convention on Road Traffic of 1949."  I would think that reciprocal acceptance each countries  drivers licenses remains in place because of the 1949 treaty. I'm guessing though that the ambiguity there has opened the door to the IDP requirement by this guy. I would like to find out definitively one way or another though. 

[johnmcc6]

I was told by an immigration officer one needs an international license to drive here issued by a country with a treaty.  Australia has such a treaty  which is why they accept an international license from Oz. If you have a long stay visa you are required to get a Thai license after 30 days stay.   This may have changed since I was so informed. Having arrived with my international license it was a breeze to convert it to Thai. No exams etc.

[wadsy]

3 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

I was told by an immigration officer one needs an international license to drive here issued by a country with a treaty.  Australia has such a treaty  which is why they accept an international license from Oz. If you have a long stay visa you are required to get a Thai license after 30 days stay.   This may have changed since I was so informed. Having arrived with my international license it was a breeze to convert it to Thai. No exams etc.

Did you have to do the colour blind, reaction and depth perception tests bud and how long did it take?

 

[johnmcc6]

15 minutes ago, wadsy said:

Did you have to do the colour blind, reaction and depth perception tests bud and how long did it take?

 

Took the color test and red light test. Total time (with correct documents plus original valid Australian license). Total time less than 30 minutes.

[stament]

Sounds unlucky, I only have a UK and a UAE license so I will need to get an International Drivers license by the looks of

[wadsy]

3 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

Took the color test and red light test. Total time (with correct documents plus original valid Australian license). Total time less than 30 minutes.

Cheers.

[FolkGuitar]

16 minutes ago, stament said:

Sounds unlucky, I only have a UK and a UAE license so I will need to get an International Drivers license by the looks of

 

For the few minutes it takes to get one, it's worth the effort in the long run. Or, for that matter, even easier to get a regular Thai driving license. Then no worries for the next five years. (Well, one year for the first one, THEN five years for the renewal.)

[roo860]

Sounds unlucky, I only have a UK and a UAE license so I will need to get an International Drivers license by the looks of

My uk licence is valid for both car and motorcycle, so was easy to obtain both licenses here.
Worth doing mate.

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[mamborobert]

I have the Thai license..easy enough to do (and did the whole test here for mc).  I was suprised by how many Thais do not have a license at all where I first lived in CM.  They all new how rto drive but questioned tehlogic of taking a day off work and spending money to get a test for a  license to do what they alread knew they could do .  At certain known times for police blocks I would get asked to do a run for them every now and again.

 

As a side I am not sure how successful one would be carrying a non Thai license on the basis of being a tourist....and then having the bike/car in your name on the basis of being a resident.  Appreciate that many (including myself) do not carry the original Green book with them.  As it is now half the time as soon as BIB see I pull out the Thai license they are waiving me on without examining it and have seen the rego sticker

 

In OZ (WA at least) you MUST carry your IDP with you IF your license is not in English.  

 

There are a few benefits in having the local license, ..For example a numbet of times I have used it for domestic plane flights and hotel check in from here to Bangkok and not needed passport so have kept it securely at home.

[Lizard2010]

1 hour ago, stament said:

Sounds unlucky, I only have a UK and a UAE license so I will need to get an International Drivers license by the looks of

You do realise these International Drivers license are normally only valid for 12 Months

[stament]

2 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

You do realise these International Drivers license are normally only valid for 12 Months

Yep

[dingdongrb]

400 THB......  ouch, that's extremely expensive for a traffic infraction compared to my home country, the USA.....  

 

I'm guessing that more than that amount has been used to take the time to make this post and all the Googling......  

[Dipterocarp]

Whether or not you are correct Chiang Mai cops don't care about treaties.

 

You need a valid foreign license with IDP or Thai license. Been that way a couple years now.

[idman]

So let me see now. In all of the replys to the original post no one but myself qustions who the <deleted> is this Australian Police Liason person is? What right does he have to pull over any driver and tell him he has to pay a fine. When did these types of earslings show up and think they are the traffic police? I am looking forward to the day when one of these w%#£×&s tries to extort a single satang from me.

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[mamborobert]

37 minutes ago, idman said:

So let me see now. In all of the replys to the original post no one but myself qustions who the <deleted> is this Australian Police Liason person is? What right does he have to pull over any driver and tell him he has to pay a fine. When did these types of earslings show up and think they are the traffic police? I am looking forward to the day when one of these w%#£×&s tries to extort a single satang from me.

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Have seen this guy a number of times.   For a while I heard his name tossed around as potential Hon Consul.  He is not an AFP Liason....he is voluntary tourist police.  BIB pull over and you can get referred to him by them.

 

I posted about him here when I most recently come across him.  He has been doing this type of work for yonkers and you will often see him in photos on CM108 doing interpreting/assisting with errant Tourists.

Citylife extract from 2012 below:  http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/mod-oz/

 

Aussie on the Beat

I met Laurie Simmons at his award-winning guesthouse on Tha Pae. He had just returned from the police station, setting the scene nicely for our interview with the city’s only Australian tourist police volunteer. Simmons welcomed us into a spacious office previously used as the hub of his lucrative e-bay business. Born and bred in Sydney, Simmons worked for the Australian police for 24 years. 

“In the late seventies the Australian government was into multiculturalism. I was sent to learn Thai. Back then I didn’t even like pepper on my food!” Simmons developed a passion for a language in a country he had never even been to. “I impressed the commanders with my language ability and got into helping on human trafficking cases.”

After working in Thailand for a number of international cases and marrying a Thai lady, Simmons eventually relocated to Chiang Mai for early retirement, though there was no golf, smoking pipe and cosy slippers for this young pensioner.  Helping out with a couple of incidents with the local bobbies quickly became a regular 30 to 50+ hour week assisting the tourist police. 

 “I’ve been to every type of incident, from lost passports, domestic rows to road accidents, suicides, murders and narcotics. There are many things which are simply a miscommunication.” 

“I was once called out to diffuse a situation where an unfaithful expat had a revengeful knife hanging out of his back. Another time a man phoned us, he was hiding in the shed. All you could hear was the ‘pinging’ sounds of bullets his jealous wife was shooting at him from outside.”

He told me about another incident where a naive tourist had criticised some elephant mahouts for using the elephants to make money on the streets. The tourist ended up getting slashed with a machete, whilst the three mahouts escaped the scene by elephant; the reflector lights clipped to the elephant tails swinging side to side as the large mammals trundled up Loi Kroh. Speedy getaway, it was not!

“Everyone asks me what I get out of this,” explains Simmons. “Recently there was a very violent incident; my friend wondered why on earth I would want to be involved with such danger whilst not even getting paid. But for me it’s not about the money. I have a decent pension and businesses. For me it’s about giving something back to the local community. Yes it can be risky, and not everyone can do it. It takes a certain person to deal with dead bodies and drunk people.” 

[masuk]

3 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

400 THB......  ouch, that's extremely expensive for a traffic infraction compared to my home country, the USA.....  

 

I'm guessing that more than that amount has been used to take the time to make this post and all the Googling......  

...and I don't think they remove points for traffic infractions.  I'm not even sure if they use this system.  It would have to be computerised to work properly.

[akirasan]

I'll just add, and I doubt its correct but it's relevant, at my last traffic stop I produced an Aussie drivers licence and was told by the masked extortion agent policeman that it needs to be accompanied by an official translation

[Belzybob]

6 hours ago, noise said:

Have you search on the web and found there is such a treaty between Thailand and Australia regarding driver's licenses?  What you quoted (l copied below) only says IF A TREATY EXISTS, it does not say one does exist.

 

I am not trying to gratuitously argue with you.  I just deal with this issue fairly frequently and the answer will be useful to me. 

 

Section 42-2
In case there’s a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver’s license, an alien who doesn’t have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license issued by such a foreign government, OR an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government."

 

Yes they do. If you look at a Thai driver's licence you will see that it is in both Thai and English. Now why would they do that? Solely because if they didn't, then Thai's would not be able to use their Thai licence when they visit other countries that are part of the treaty.

 

The stupidity of supporting the idea of carrying them is highlighted by the fact that they don't even include a Thai translation. ( Nine languages (English, Spanish, Japanese, Greek, German, Arabic, Russian, Chinese and French ))

 

The International Driver's Permit is just a bad joke, largely bought unnecessarily due to ignorance or due to the incorrect advice of those with a vested interest in selling them. They are not a licence, they are an authorised translation of licence conditions and are only valid when carried with a proper driver's licence.

 

[Belzybob]

13 minutes ago, akirasan said:

I'll just add, and I doubt its correct but it's relevant, at my last traffic stop I produced an Aussie drivers licence and was told by the masked extortion agent policeman that it needs to be accompanied by an official translation

Hopefully he is fluent in written English, Spanish, Japanese, Greek, German, Arabic, Russian, Chinese or French. Note NO THAI

[Sparkles]

In the 2 weeks I will be renting a car in Australia and my Thai driving licence, being in English, is totally acceptable

[Sparkles]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

For the few minutes it takes to get one, it's worth the effort in the long run. Or, for that matter, even easier to get a regular Thai driving license. Then no worries for the next five years. (Well, one year for the first one, THEN five years for the renewal.)

True,get aThai licence, its a lot less painful that going through the Immigration process  and no agents

 

By the way if you go a few days after your 5 yr licence expires you will get a 6 year licence due to the way their computer program is set up.

[dave2]

3 hours ago, idman said:

So let me see now. In all of the replys to the original post no one but myself qustions who the <deleted> is this Australian Police Liason person is? What right does he have to pull over any driver and tell him he has to pay a fine. When did these types of earslings show up and think they are the traffic police? I am looking forward to the day when one of these w%#£×&s tries to extort a single satang from me.

ive  known laurie for years and hes well respected by lots of thai organisations

 

police doctors hospitals tessaban offices immigration etc for sorting out problems

 

for foriegners when they are in trouble or causing it

 

hes a nice man

 

to cross him or question his integrity in front of thai officials

would be making a big mistake mr 48 posts 

 

 

dave2

 

[roo860]

ive  known laurie for years and hes well respected by lots of thai organisations

 

police doctors hospitals tessaban offices immigration etc for sorting out problems

 

for foriegners when they are in trouble or causing it

 

hes a nice man

 

to cross him or question his integrity in front of thai officials

would be making a big mistake mr 48 posts [emoji20]

 

 

dave2

 

Is that him in the orange dress?

Just in case I get stopped by him, need to call him sir or Madam.

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[lordblackader]

You've got to love someone complaining about non-compliance of a law that resulted in a 400 baht fine. I'd dread to think how big that fine would be in Australia. Would you argue with an Australian policeman who was imposing local law? 

 

An IDP costs something like AU$40 from an RAC and takes about 5 minutes to obtain. If you're local or in Thailand regularly a local license ~400 baht. Get a residency certificate and medical certificate, drive out to DLT in Hang Dong, fill in the paperwork, hand over your valid Australian drivers license and passport, try not to smile for the picture, have a colour blind test and then walk out a little under 1 hour later, problem solved. 

[dingdongrb]

47 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

True,get aThai licence, its a lot less painful that going through the Immigration process  and no agents

 

By the way if you go a few days after your 5 yr licence expires you will get a 6 year licence due to the way their computer program is set up.

And a hint....  Go to the Lamphun office as the queue is nearly nonexistent...

 

Yes, my last renewal (most recent) is for 6 years.....  I thought they added an extra year just to not have to see my beautiful face as often....

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, masuk said:

...and I don't think they remove points for traffic infractions.  I'm not even sure if they use this system.  It would have to be computerised to work properly.

That's right, no point system....  I get one or two speeding tickets a year and I'm happy to be able to just pay 200-400 THB on the spot and be on my merry way.........  all for driving in excess of 130 kmph...

 

Here's a story about my last ticket.......

 

I drive to my place from CM to Isaan every year for the Christmas and the New Year holiday. That's about 950 km one way....  I was about 4 km from my destination this last December and was caught by a speeding camera for doing 134 kmph.... Of course I was waved over and given a 400 THB fine which I paid on the spot. As I proceeded on my way I remembered what a couple of my Thai friends had told me before. They said that if you are given a speeding ticket then you can drive as fast as you want for the remainder of that day and they won't issue you another ticket.

 

Well I decided to test that out since I only had about 4 km left in my journey. Wouldn't you know it it, less than 1 km from my destination I was waved over once again for doing over 140 kmph and that occurred just minutes after I paid the last fine. I whipped out the ticket I just got through paying and showed it to the officer. He gave me back my ticket and told me to continue on. No new ticket!!!!

 

Now after telling this story to many of my Thai friends upon my return in January to CM I have found out something. This is only true and will only work within the same Providence.......

 

Go ahead, test it for yourself.....  unless you're one of those numb-nuts who drives 60 kmph in the fast lane all the time!!!!!