TM 30, TM 28, ... in Pattaya

[Rastaputin]

Sorry I am confused. Maybe someone can help me?

I am on Non-O Extension based on Marriage for several Years, holding a Work Permit. 

I live, together with my wife and her child, in a house in Pattaya that we bought a few Years ago.  The house is in a company name where my wife is the director and major shareholder.

My attempts to get a Yellow book were not successful so far, several lawyers told me it is difficult to get in Pattaya.

I travel a lot while living here, partly for job, partly for pleasure.

Every Year I travel abroad 4 to 6 times, usually for a week or so each. But I also travel a lot within Thailand, to Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, and other places where my company has clients. I usually stay at Hotels in these places.

I have a Multiple Reentry Permit, which I update every Year after obtaining extension of my permission to stay.

I am totally clueless about the requirements for TM 28 or TM 30.

As I travel a lot abroad, there was only one case in the last 4 or 5 YEars where I staid long enough in Thailand to file a 90 Day report, which I did.

When returning from an international trip, I fill the address of "my" house in the TM8 form at the airport.

Is that all I need to do in these cases, or am I required to fill out other forms upon my return?

And what about returning from a trip to other parts of Thailand, where I stayed at a Hotel?

What about my wife as the housemaster, and what are her obligations to report?

I printed out a TM30 form, and gave it to my wife. She said she does not understand it.

On that form, in the first part it asks for my name and address. Which address is appropriate here? The one of my house, or my old address from Europe, or the address of the Hotel I was?

 

And can this form be sent to Immigration by Royal Thai Post, or do I have to go to Immigration? The form has a slip used for confirmation, will Immigration return this when I send by post? Do I need to included a stamped self-addressed envelope? How is the 24 hour period calculated when sending this per post?

 

And do I need to fill a TM 28 as well?

 

Thanks for enlightenment. 

[ubonjoe]

You should have your wife complete a TM30 form. Here is one I put a few notes on. sample tm30.pdf  Your name goes on page 2.

Since you are in Pattaya I not sure when or if they want the TM30 form for you since it has evolved to mass confusion about them at Jomtien immigration. Best to take it and see what they say.

 

[Peterw42]

Your wife, as housemaster, is supposed to submit a TM30 reporting you as alien in residence. Next time you re enter Thailand submit one. Pattaya immigration do not push the more than 24 hrs or every re-entry requirement.

The address on the TM30 is your address in thailand.

I wouldn't race down to immigration and submit a TM30 tomorrow, as that just highlights that you have not submitted one before. 

Submit a TM30 next time you re-enter, keep the reciept and relax.

[Rastaputin]

Thanks. And this one is needed after returning from every tip, or only international?

Can this form be sent by Mail? 

My wife is just preparing to leave Pattaya for a few days of family business in the province, I can have her fill out and sign the paper, but she might not be able to go to Immigration today.

 

what is the fine I can expect to pay if I dont bother? will they fine me for failure to comply for maybe 100 times (The approximate number of trips outside Pattaya I have done in the last few Years)?

 

 

[Peterw42]

20 minutes ago, Rastaputin said:

Thanks. And this one is needed after returning from every tip, or only international?

Can this form be sent by Mail? 

My wife is just preparing to leave Pattaya for a few days of family business in the province, I can have her fill out and sign the paper, but she might not be able to go to Immigration today.

 

what is the fine I can expect to pay if I dont bother? will they fine me for failure to comply for maybe 100 times (The approximate number of trips outside Pattaya I have done in the last few Years)?

 

 

If it aint broke, dont fix it. If you race down to immigration and put in a TM30, that just highlights that you havnt put one in and may result in a fine. 

They dont fine retrospectively for every time you entered Thailand and didnt have a TM 30, only your current stay and only if they are aware of it. 

Submit a TM30 within 24 hrs of your next re-entry and you are legal, and Pattaya immigration dont appear to require a new TM30 for any subsequent re-entry or 24 hr stay somewhere else. So long as you are still at the same address.

 

If you are long term in the system at Pattaya immigration, extensions of stay, 90 day reports, resident certificates etc, they dont appear to worry about TM30s. If you are new to the system, visa extension, 1st 90 day, 1st resident certificate etc, That seems to be when people are having TM30 issues.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Peterw42

[Lovethailandelite]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If it aint broke, dont fix it. If you race down to immigration and put in a TM30, that just highlights that you havnt put one in and may result in a fine. 

They dont fine retrospectively for every time you entered Thailand and didnt have a TM 30, only your current stay and only if they are aware of it. 

Submit a TM30 within 24 hrs of your next re-entry and you are legal, and Pattaya immigration dont appear to require a new TM30 for any subsequent re-entry or 24 hr stay somewhere else. So long as you are still at the same address.

Sorry, but that is totally wrong! They will see his complete history whenever he decides to file it. That makes no difference whether that is next week or next year. Correct, they don't require a new TM30 every time you re-enter but they 100% expect you to report back within 24hrs with your new TM6 and original reporting slip and they then update the system and issue you with a receipt. Fail to report back and get caught out at your new extension or it could possibly happen when you do a 90 day report and you get fined again. Jomtien are very much pushing the point along with Chang Mai and other offices. The signs are up all over the office so there is no excuse to tell them you never understood.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[Lovethailandelite]

[Peterw42]

15 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Sorry, but that is totally wrong! They will see his complete history whenever he decides to file it. That makes no difference whether that is next week or next year. Correct, they don't require a new TM30 every time you re-enter but they 100% expect you to report back within 24hrs with your new TM6 and original reporting slip and they then update the system and issue you with a receipt. Fail to report back and get caught out at your new extension or it could possibly happen when you do a 90 day report and you get fined again. Jomtien are very much pushing the point along with Chang Mai and other offices. The signs are up all over the office so there is no excuse to tell them you never understood.

At the moment, the OP would possibly get a fine "if" immigration becomes aware a TM30 has not been submitted for this stay. The only way they become aware is if you have business at immigration. The OP mentions that he leaves Thailand often, if he does a TM30 next re-entry he will be legal and they wont levy a fine for any previous stay without a TM30.

 

What I am saying to the OP is stay off the radar for now and do a TM30 next re-entry. Once you re-enter thailand, any previous stay without a TM30, is null and void, no fine.

 

If the OP races down and puts in a TM30, thinking he is doing the right thing, most likely get a fine.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Peterw42

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

At the moment, the OP would possibly get a fine "if" immigration becomes aware a TM30 has not been submitted for this stay. The only way they become aware is if you have business at immigration. The OP mentions that he leaves Thailand often, if he does a TM30 next re-entry he will be legal and they wont levy a fine for any previous stay without a TM30.

They will see from his passport he has previous entry's. They will then check his history on the system. They will then check against that and look for a TM30 previously filed. You could be fined for every single entry you have failed to file previously since 1979 but they limit it to 4000bht which is 2 entry's. That's how it works there. He then needs to report back every time he re-enters or is logged against a TM30 out of province within 24 hrs of his return or face being fined again. 

[Peterw42]

Ok, I had never heard of fines against previous stay without a TM30. 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

Ok, I had never heard of fines against previous stay without a TM30. 

Neither had I until I got done 4000bht! I only went and filed to be 100% legal. I don't need to do extensions etc but thought I would do it as I knew at some stage I would need to start doing 90 day reports after +30yrs as I wouldn't be travelling in and out working in the US and UK anymore. One 2000bht was for going 2 days after arriving from the UK in November, another 2000bht for no TM30 since 3 years back from a hotel in Hua Hin but a dozen or so entries since. The biggest issue is hotels in the main are not reporting and we get the fines for it under the guise of 'You need to be reported'. They are just not interested in fact hotels are failing. Hence tourists looking to do an extension are being clobbered.

[Lovethailandelite]

Not sure if anybody noticed a poster yesterday that went to Jomtien to file a TM28? Apparently they don't recognise them anymore. Everything is now done on a TM30.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Neither had I until I got done 4000bht! I only went and filed to be 100% legal. I don't need to do extensions etc but thought I would do it as I knew at some stage I would need to start doing 90 day reports after +30yrs as I wouldn't be travelling in and out working in the US and UK anymore. One 2000bht was for going 2 days after arriving from the UK in November, another 2000bht for no TM30 since 3 years back from a hotel in Hua Hin but a dozen or so entries since. The biggest issue is hotels in the main are not reporting and we get the fines for it under the guise of 'You need to be reported'. They are just not interested in fact hotels are failing. Hence tourists looking to do an extension are being clobbered.

I would be interested to hear from other posters , to see how widespread this is.

 

So as it stands, I can visit Thailand without a TM30 being submitted, go back home etc. Return for another visit, years later, and get a fine for the previous visit were no TM30 was put in.

 

Gobsmacked.lol

 

[Anthony Loh]

Ok, I had never heard of fines against previous stay without a TM30. 

Yes! There is fines against old previous stay, I saw it when I was doing my report for the TM 30 in Chiangmai after return from overseas. One couple came into the immigration office show the officer his passport and was told that he did not do any TM 30 reports since he have been in Thailand for few years.


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[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

I would be interested to hear from other posters , to see how widespread this is.

 

So as it stands, I can visit Thailand without a TM30 being submitted, go back home etc. Return for another visit, years later, and get a fine for the previous visit were no TM30 was put in.

 

Gobsmacked.lol

 

Yes, as Anthony Loh has just confirmed. That is why you need to report back every single time.

[Asiantravel]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

At the moment, the OP would possibly get a fine "if" immigration becomes aware a TM30 has not been submitted for this stay. The only way they become aware is if you have business at immigration. The OP mentions that he leaves Thailand often, if he does a TM30 next re-entry he will be legal and they wont levy a fine for any previous stay without a TM30.

 

What I am saying to the OP is stay off the radar for now and do a TM30 next re-entry. Once you re-enter thailand, any previous stay without a TM30, is null and void, no fine.

 

If the OP races down and puts in a TM30, thinking he is doing the right thing, most likely get a fine.

" What I am saying to the OP is stay off the radar for now and do a TM30 next re-entry. Once you re-enter thailand, any previous stay without a TM30, is null and void, no fine."

 

how can you be sure this is the case?

 

 

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

" What I am saying to the OP is stay off the radar for now and do a TM30 next re-entry. Once you re-enter thailand, any previous stay without a TM30, is null and void, no fine."

 

how can you be sure this is the case?

 

 

Not 100% sure, just a suggestion for the OP to avoid a fine and be legal in the future.

[Rastaputin]

Seems the rules here are so unclear that whatever I do I will be subjected to a fine ...

I rather pay a 4000 (Bribe? Fine? Does it matter?) once a Year than frantically trying to do the seemingly impossible, i.e. Following stringent rules.

There are people who say women's minds are impossible to understand. These people never met with Thai Immigration ...

 

[Lovethailandelite]

10 minutes ago, Rastaputin said:

Seems the rules here are so unclear that whatever I do I will be subjected to a fine ...

I rather pay a 4000 (Bribe? Fine? Does it matter?) once a Year than frantically trying to do the seemingly impossible, i.e. Following stringent rules.

There are people who say women's minds are impossible to understand. These people never met with Thai Immigration ...

 

That's great but be under no illusion that according to the law, your also here illegally. I am not saying that's a reason they may come looking for you but be aware that plenty of people have been in a small problem over the years that have then manifested in to a huge problem once they start to look just what they can charge you with and there is the problem in not complying with the law. imo why if you wish to stay here, then do every thing possible to be 100% legal.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[steve187]

13 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

maybe I can see the need to report a tm28 when the op returns from a trip . but that still leaves the question of the tm30, you have quoted a post about tm30's with a reply about tm28's

 

 

[pee paub]

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

At the moment, the OP would possibly get a fine "if" immigration becomes aware a TM30 has not been submitted for this stay. The only way they become aware is if you have business at immigration. The OP mentions that he leaves Thailand often, if he does a TM30 next re-entry he will be legal and they wont levy a fine for any previous stay without a TM30.

 

What I am saying to the OP is stay off the radar for now and do a TM30 next re-entry. Once you re-enter thailand, any previous stay without a TM30, is null and void, no fine.

 

If the OP races down and puts in a TM30, thinking he is doing the right thing, most likely get a fine.

I did exactly this yesterday in Jomtien. Submitted the TM30 after reentering Thailand after a 6 week trip. I'm on a Retirement Extension, and there was no check if I had submitted the form after my other entries and no fine. It sure is interesting to now have to report the same address first at the airport then next day at your local office.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

maybe I can see the need to report a tm28 when the op returns from a trip . but that still leaves the question of the tm30, you have quoted a post about tm30's with a reply about tm28's

 

 

Perhaps read the posts. The TM28 is not required anymore at Jomtien. Not recognised,finished. The sign is from them regarding the filing of a TM30. How hard is it to understand?

[Maestro]

Perhaps read the posts. The TM28 is not required anymore at Jomtien. Not recognised,finished. The sign is from them regarding the filing of a TM30. How hard is it to understand?

I find it not only hard, but impossible to understand that a notice put up at an immigration office referring to section 37(2) of the Immigration Act should be with reference to a notification required under section 38 of the Act.

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[ba ba]

do you have to do the 30 if you have a yellow book

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

I find it not only hard, but impossible to understand that a notice put up at an immigration office referring to section 37(2) of the Immigration Act should be with reference to a notification required under section 38 of the Act.

 

 

Not only that but the requirement mentioned on that poster is that the foreigner should "stay at the place as indicated to the competent official". I dont know about everyone else but when I enter the country I fill in my TM6 with my home address. If that isnt indicating my address to the competent official I dont know what is: indeed it is the whole point of having that section on the TM6 in the first place.

 

I fully realise that there is no logic or common sense in Thailand, and little real comprehension of anything, but to me the act as translated on that poster seems to only apply to those who stay elsewhere than at the place indicated on their TM6. It also does not appear to require those returning to the address of their TM6 to register that fact, as the assumption should be that if they are not staying somewhere else then they are staying at the address of the TM6.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, ba ba said:

do you have to do the 30 if you have a yellow book

Having a yellow house book does not exempt your from any reporting. It is only good for proof of residence.

[Lovethailandelite]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

I find it not only hard, but impossible to understand that a notice put up at an immigration office referring to section 37(2) of the Immigration Act should be with reference to a notification required under section 38 of the Act.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

It really makes make little difference at the end of the day. The end result is exactly the same. You may as well go in there and tell them there signage for 'Retirement Visas' is all wrong too. I guess I know what they will tell you.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Not only that but the requirement mentioned on that poster is that the foreigner should "stay at the place as indicated to the competent official". I dont know about everyone else but when I enter the country I fill in my TM6 with my home address. If that isnt indicating my address to the competent official I dont know what is: indeed it is the whole point of having that section on the TM6 in the first place.

 

I fully realise that there is no logic or common sense in Thailand, and little real comprehension of anything, but to me the act as translated on that poster seems to only apply to those who stay elsewhere than at the place indicated on their TM6. It also does not appear to require those returning to the address of their TM6 to register that fact, as the assumption should be that if they are not staying somewhere else then they are staying at the address of the TM6.

Your trying to hard to apply logic in your own mind when it's not required. Until you have notified them on a TM30, you, in there eye and under the 1979 law, haven't complied and thus haven't notified them.This needs to be done on each and every occasion you are away from the province (including not leaving Thailand) for over 24 hrs and needs to filed again within 24 hrs of returning or again, your outside of the law how it stands and risk another fine and who knows what in the future if you consistently failed to comply. No arguing with them that you have already done a TM6 is going to alter there mind on it. The law is there and on there side when they wish to apply it. Rather than trying to find ways that enables you not to do it, which there isn't, then I find it easier and less stressful just to do it and be legal.
Maybe its easier to look at it this way. You notify the I/O on entry in to the country on a TM6 but you then need to notify the immigration office that requires it (Some do some don't) when you get to where your staying.

[wobalt]

Your trying to hard to apply logic in your own mind when it's not required.

Please stop to confuse other people with your interpretations. According to you all people arriving in Thailand are required to file personally a TM30 at Jomtien to avoid future problems. Well, this would habe been about 8 million people last year. I really would like to see them flocking into the office...
And by the way...I remember that you have mentioned that you own your own condo..? What means in deed you are responsible for your TM30!

[Lovethailandelite]

10 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Please stop to confuse other people with your interpretations. According to you all people arriving in Thailand are required to file personally a TM30 at Jomtien to avoid future problems. Well, this would habe been about 8 million people last year. I really would like to see them flocking into the office...
And by the way...I remember that you have mentioned that you own your own condo..? What means in deed you are responsible for your TM30!

Read my posts and stop trying to be clever. Every post states 'Those offices that require it not all do'. Owning your own condo makes zero difference to anything. I have it by now that you feel YOU don't need to comply but fact is you do. I really wish people like you would stop trying to make it sound that you can just ignore it when you really can't.