Can a farang do home remodeling on GF house w/o work visa?

[Elkski]

Just curious oh if I could do home repair in say a GF home that I am living in?

Sorry if this isn't the best place for this?

Then what would happen if she sold this house shortly thereafter?

What if this became a pattern of her buying buying fixer uppers and flipping them?

 

Just figured it couldn't hurt to find where the grey area turns dark..

[saakura]

What does "buying buying fixer uppers and flipping them?" mean?

[kowpot]

Flipping houses in Thailand would be a new concept to Thai's I would think. Thai's are not real big on buying second hand homes. That is why there are a lot of vacant houses. 

 I always thought the government could relax standards on foreigners by allowing them to buy and own a used houses. Then flipping houses could be very profitable. Also, it would make some Mu Baans with empty houses look better.

  The law states that a foreigner cannot do the work that a Thai person could do.  Take it from there. I know that doesn't actually answer your question very well. 

I mow my own lawn and I haven't been arrested yet. So, I guess you can do anything until someone complains. 

[Thanyaburi Mac]

It means:

 

--  buy a semi run down house, condo, townhouse

 

--  fixing it up

 

--  selling it

 

--  then buying another one to do the same thing, the "flipping" event/

 

Mac

[canuckamuck]

The law and it's interpretation is purposefully vague. The intent of the law is to keep westerners from taking jobs from Thais, but It doesn't specifically say you can't, for instance paint your bedroom. However if you got the attention of the wrong person, you could be out for doing just that.

 

That being said, flipping houses is an interesting idea. Thais don't like to buy used houses, but maybe they would buy restored houses. You would have to due diligence and confirm that the house has no ghosts. Ghost removal might be an approved occupation here.

[oxo1947]

Its really a down (house) market to start that sort of venture....

But on the upside your get lots of useful in depth tips from the DIY experts on here like-

"When redecorating your kitchen make it more roomier by using thinner wallpaper"......

[Elkski]

I have read that Thais prefer new.   But how extensive is this?   I have read about ghosts.   

I guess it's a bad thought it outcome if you step on the wrong toes.   What about sort being of being the super and hiring each trade.   Where is the line.  Refinishing wood patio railing, mowing, picking fruit?   

[ubonjoe]

A Thai bashing post has been removed.

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

The law and it's interpretation is purposefully vague. The intent of the law is to keep westerners from taking jobs from Thais, but It doesn't specifically say you can't, for instance paint your bedroom. However if you got the attention of the wrong person, you could be out for doing just that.

 

That being said, flipping houses is an interesting idea. Thais don't like to buy used houses, but maybe they would buy restored houses. You would have to due diligence and confirm that the house has no ghosts. Ghost removal might be an approved occupation here.

one of the main reasons thais dont like second hand houses is they may have ghosts in them. restored houses would also have the same ghosts i would assume. i have seen good houses get knocked down just to build a new ghost free house. sounds crazy to us but thats thailand for you. realestate is a hard game in thailand. i have had a bit of a go at it and was lucky to even sell the properties i purchased.

[transam]

In theory you are not allowed to do stuff a Thai can do, but we all do stuff to our own places. But in your case if it is deemed a money making venture where the next residence will reveal that you may end up in doo doo if you are sussed or grassed up....Plus you ain't married to the bird, so it could look like a farang working...Be careful...

[ba ba]

My g.f and i bougth 12 concrete posts with a tin shed on top now it has 3 bedrooms and a big area upstairs and down stairs kitchen and all the area has been blocked in ,floors concrete and tiled ,i done all the work myself .

[sinbin]

6 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

one of the main reasons thais dont like second hand houses is they may have ghosts in them. restored houses would also have the same ghosts

I don't see that as being the reason. Loads and loads of Thais rent but I've never saw one exorcism being carried out in the years I've been here. Living in rented accommodation is no different to living in a second hand house.

[daveAustin]

Thais do buy secondhand; the spirit thing is more the lower folk, those with their head screwed on couldn't give a monkeys. It's all about if it's a good moobahn or not. They also flip.

 

Working on 'own' house (one you're living in) shouldn't be an issue. Spent years sorting 'mine', doing everything - paint, building work, hard landscaping, electrics, plumbing, you name it - and everyone knew. As said, it's all about getting the attention of the wrong sort, or if a neighbour has a bee in their bonnet. But I would do this again, and flip, without a second thought. It's quite easy to beautify a house here and make it look better than others in the street even with a tiny bit of imagination because most other houses languish. Banks have the best deals... get friendly with them.

Edited March 18, 2017 by daveAustin

[transam]

4 minutes ago, sinbin said:

I don't see that as being the reason. Loads and loads of Thais rent but I've never saw one exorcism being carried out in the years I've been here. Living in rented accommodation is no different to living in a second hand house.

Many Thai folk will not get involved with a house where someone has popped off, some go to adjacent houses to ask if someone has popped off in the place they are interested in.

 

I know a guy with a lovely place he is/was trying to sell, unfortunately a girl drowned in the swimming pool, big problem...

[williamgeorgeallen]

10 minutes ago, sinbin said:

I don't see that as being the reason. Loads and loads of Thais rent but I've never saw one exorcism being carried out in the years I've been here. Living in rented accommodation is no different to living in a second hand house.

most thais dont have the money to buy and are forced to rent. they have no choice but to live in second hand properties as a tiny fraction of rental properties are rented out new for the first time. those who do not have the money to buy new have the monks around before they move in to clean out the spirits. normally they put in a spirit house to get the ghosts to move into. it is common for people to pay to have monks come around to get spirits out of a house.

[Peterw42]

OP, there is a big difference between genuinely working on your own property and a property development business "for profit".  There is no grey area, only people who choose to create a grey area, to exploit the laws. 99% of the "I got fined for changing a light globe" stories, are exactly that, stories. Show me a guy that got fined for washing his own car, and I will show you a guy that is running a car wash business. 

[sinbin]

7 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Thais do buy secondhand; the spirit thing is more the lower folk, those with their head screwed on couldn't give a monkeys.

Spot on Dave.

[roo860]

Its really a down (house) market to start that sort of venture....
But on the upside your get lots of useful in depth tips from the DIY experts on here like-
"When redecorating your kitchen make it more roomier by using thinner wallpaper"......

Do you read Viz comic magazine Top Tips?


Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[sinbin]

3 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

it is common for people to pay to have monks come around to get spirits out of a house.

I live in a rural village where the intellect level isn't at a high point but but even for renters they do not have monks doing exorcist parties before taking up residence. The monks would be rushed off their flip flops with that and funerals.

[Peterw42]

As for the Thais not buying second hand properties, you would be living in a bubble if you haven't noticed the spirit houses in every front yard. The big house is for bad spirits to live, so they dont come into the house, the smaller house is for the former occupants of the house, mum dad uncle somechai etc. 

The belief system has a huge impact on second hand real estate. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

Working in Thailand without a Work Permit is a Grey Area, as this is not clearly defined. To simply say that you are not allowed to do any work a Thai can do is ridiculous. That would mean that any Farang who was helping his wife with the super dishes, cutting his grass, working in his garden, or even picking up paper bags and rubbish in his yard is at risk of being arrested and deported. I don't think so!

 

In this regard you have to look at "Work" in a different way. "Work" as something you do to achieve some financial gain or benefit. Benefit in that you accept something else of value instead of cash money. If a person was to build a beautiful statue, then place that on his front lawn, then there is probably nothing wrong with that. But if a friend should pop by, and like your statue, and wants you to build one for him which he will pay you for, and you decide to do that, then it is not okay.

 

What makes this a Grey Area, and why I said "is probably nothing wrong with that" as you also have to consider your "Intent" also. If you built this statue to beautify your lawn, then this is fine. But if you built this statue to advertise your a skills in doing this, so you could sell more later, then it would not be okay.

 

From what you have told us, you have a 2 part question. Firstly is it okay to fix up your GF House? As long as you live their with her yourself, and as long as she is not paying you to do that, then I don't see you having any legal problems with this.

 

However, and which seems to be your "Intent" and leading to your second part of your question, if you plan fix up this place then sell it for a quick profit, then move onto the next property to do the same, then it is not okay.  You would need a Work Permit which in this case I think it would be hard to get. Keep in mind the Land Transfer Fee's and Taxes are much higher on a property you had for only one year, verses 5 years or longer.

 

Would you get caught by the law for doing that? I don't know! Probably not the first couple of times. But if you continued to do this the amount of land transfers at the Land Office may raise some warning signs. If they investigated you further I don't think it would be too hard to prove you are doing that. Then it is "Goodbye John!" And not "See You Next Year" either.  

[mfd101]

If you look at how so many new houses get treated here by their occupants - looking like a slum after about 12 months, no maintenance, no garden just rubbish everywhere, and goodness knows what they're like inside - then it's not surprising that people would be reluctant to buy second-hand. But restored (and exorcised) can be a different story ...

[mahjongguy]

There was a news story out of Phuket a few years ago where a couple of guys were "flipping" boats. Neighbors got annoyed by the constant whine of grinders and sanders, called the cops. 

 

These two guys said "We love boats! It's our hobby!" but there was plenty of evidence that they were constantly selling them on. They were arrested, though as usual there was no follow-up reporting on the case. 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post has been removed.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Elkski said:

I have read that Thais prefer new.   But how extensive is this?   I have read about ghosts.   

I guess it's a bad thought it outcome if you step on the wrong toes.   What about sort being of being the super and hiring each trade.   Where is the line.  Refinishing wood patio railing, mowing, picking fruit?   

 

It's true, Thais generally don't buy second hand houses, whatever condition, flipped or not flipped.

 

Why? The main reasons:

 

1. - Thais always seriously consider what personal / family status value they will gain before they spend money (this is a serious consideration). Buying things (and especially big ticket things) which are obviously second hand brings very little status value. In fact it would often bring a comment like 'can't afford the real thing' which is exactly what the average Thai doesn't want people to think and this is even more true with folks who do have money. Whether it's a bargain, whether it's restored or flipped doesn't change this attitude.

 

An aligned point - how many houses do you see which need maintenance, but it doesn't happen? Many. This is a twist of what I said just above. 'Why would you spend money to maintain something which would never sell anyway / why would you spend money of something which is now old?'

 

2. - Very different point. Many Thais would wonder about the past history of an existing house. Did anybody die there? are their ghosts because of death of some other past activity. Is it a house which has bad luck because of something from the past?

 

I don't agree that it's only lower class people who think like this. In general rich Thai folks are just as superstitious as anybody.  

 

On the other hand making your gf's house more comfortable for her sake / your sake on a purely personal level is a different and personal consideration. And you can certainly find many cases where foreigners have completely built or remodelled a full house. 

 

Yes, by the law you would need a work permit to do the work personally. To get a work permit a foreigner must be employed by a Thai company in a specific job which would be stated in the work permit book (for Thailand there is no such thing as a personal work visa or a general work permit to do anything).  

 

At the start of the Thai Visa site there an extensive thread on this subject. as already said, one of the main purposes of the Thai laws on this subject is to protect Thais from losing jobs to non-Thai people. Being the boss or the supervisor changes nothing, by the law you still need a work permit.  

 

The thread I mentioned above has a specific list of which occupations cannot be undertaken by non-Thai people. Even if the occupation is not on the protected occupations list a foreigner still needs a work permit to work in Thailand

 

Some folks will tell you 'don't worry, just go ahead and do it', and ultimately that's your decision, however be aware that if caught or reported then there are penalties including possible deportation. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by scorecard

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Thais do buy secondhand; the spirit thing is more the lower folk, those with their head screwed on couldn't give a monkeys. It's all about if it's a good moobahn or not. They also flip.

Exactly right. Thais do buy secondhand and do flip.

 

I seem to remember someone else on Thai Visa interested in flipping property a while back. I would think it's possible if you can stay under the radar and avoid making it look like you're doing something that a building contractor would usually do.

[transam]

Think what some of us trying to point out is that a "risk" is there, bit like those playing Bridge found out...

[IMA_FARANG]

 

I would not be an expert on such things but I believe such a thing is considered as undertaking a business for profit in Thailand and therefore requires a work permit and also would be considered a business that would require hiring Thai employees.

You would therefore need a work permit and be running a business in Thailand.

Remember, you are a foreigner in Thailand and therefore you are prohibited in working legally in some businesses.

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by IMA_FARANG
Added a coment

[CharlieH]

Vulgar post removed

[BruceMangosteen]

As long as don't "cut" her money and she doesn't "flip" you for another bloke willing to pay more, no worries. The work you do on the existing house isn't going to result in any higher price if/when up for sale so what you do should be considered for your own comfort and good feelings generated. I've seen and known several blokes who added AC's and tile and even in one instance, changed out the windows and sliding glass doors for insulated ones, and when the house sold, he thought this goodwill would transfer to the next house she bought needing the same improvements. He told her he wasn't going to pay again and she threw him out without a Baht to show for all his work.