Attending funeral at a Wat for Deceased Westerner

[scottiejohn]

I will be attending the funeral of a close western friend of mine on Monday at a Wat in CM. I am used to attending western funerals in a western setting but I have never attended such a ‘service’ or funeral in a Thai/Buddhism setting before and would welcome any advice regarding dress code etiquette etc.

[mesquite]

Wear black and be as quiet and respectful as possible.  That's what I did. There are probably other things as well.

Edited April 1, 2017 by mesquite

[Crossy]

As above, and prepare to be bored and possibly deafened.

 

Just follow what everyone else does.

 

As a close friend you may be asked to present robes / offerings to the monks, again just follow the others.

 

 

[cmsally]

Dress code is pretty similar with mostly black and some white is Ok For example black trousers, white shirt and black tie.

Normal procedure is to pay respects to the deceased first and there is normally someone giving out incense which is lit and you place in a "pot" with all the other incense that has been lit. After that you find a seat, maybe not at the front as it is often immediate family there.

Then just follow everyone else as there will be long Buddhist prayers when sometimes you clasp palms together and then not.

[jonwilly]

I was told to wear white shirt and Black trousers for the only one I attended. I was also chosen to be one of the folks to present robes to the monks.

Just be respectful, Thais understand that Frangs do not appreciate their customs.

 

john

[elektrified]

Be prepared to fork over some cash at the end of the ceremony. The last one I attended had a "suggested offering" of 400-600 Baht per person. This helps cover the cost of flowers, food and drink, as well as the fee paid to the monks. They handed out envelopes during the last few minutes of the ceremony.

 

Neutral colors are O.K. Does not have to be all black.

Edited April 1, 2017 by elektrified

[scottiejohn]

From the last two good positive responses! I take it that a suit/jacket is NOT required.

Is their anything I am required to take with me to give/present to anyone? 

Thanks for the two responsible responses.

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, elektrified said:

Be prepared to fork over some cash at the end of the ceremony. The last one I attended had a "suggested offering" of 400-600 Baht per person. This helps cover the cost of flowers, food and drink, as well as the fee paid to the monks. They handed out envelopes during the last few minutes of the ceremony.

Thanks electrified.  You responded while I was so make the good count three.

As you may gather I am very unhappy about the first two insensitive posts which I have 'reported'.

Thanks to those giving considerate advice, much appreciated.

[cmsally]

Good god don't wear a suit otherwise you might pass out from heatstroke !

I have never heard of "suggested donation", normally you should prepare a white envelope with your donation. If it was a close friend then 500 Bt is normally appropriate. Write your name on the front of the sealed envelope. Sometimes there is a designated box for this but best to hand over to a responsible relative just in case you put in the "temple roof repair fund " box by mistake !

 

[scottiejohn]

8 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Good god don't wear a suit otherwise you might pass out from heatstroke

Thanks for that advice.  It is one of the things I was worried about.

[oldgent]

I have attended 2 Funerals one was an old Thai guy from Issan which I found undignified

watching the corpse getting cremated in front of everyone. the second was a western gentleman

who i classed as a personal friend, donations were not required as his family were wealthy.

As of all funerals one conducts theirself in a respectful manner and stay in the background

and watch how others take part. Of course there is the moment when you pay your respects

usually there are single flowers on hand to put in the coffin. It will be an experience for you.

 

[cmsally]

Unfortunately I have been to more funerals than I can count !

With pretty much every funeral, if you go on the last day (which will be day time) you will accompany the deceased to the crematorium. Otherwise you go in the evening on a previous day.

[narkeddiver]

If you are attending the funeral prior to the final day expect lots of photographs to be taken - almost as many are taken as at a wedding these days

 

What threw me the first time was having our photos taken in front of the coffin - also the relaxed nature of the first few days of the funeral, lots of talking and eating

 

The final day at the crematorium is the most serious of the days and typically when you'll see emotions running at their highest

 

[cyberfarang]

4 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

From the last two good positive responses! I take it that a suit/jacket is NOT required.

Is their anything I am required to take with me to give/present to anyone? 

Thanks for the two responsible responses.

It`s down to common sense. In Thailand no need to wear a suit. Smart casual will suffice, no shorts or flips flops, a black shirt, dark coloured trousers and a smart pair of soft casual shoes.

 

Usually at Thai funerals if it`s someone you don`t know very well, it`s customary to give a minimum of 500 baht or less if you`re an old skinflint. For a close friend, how much money you donate for the funeral is up to you. It`s either how little you think you can get away with giving or how you valued your friend when he was living. 5 years ago I gave 10000 baht towards my English friend`s funeral, but we close and I wanted to give him a good send off. In the end what you give has to come from the heart, rather then placing a price tag on it. As for behaviour, only need to be yourself and just follow what everyone else does.

[scottiejohn]

8 hours ago, narkeddiver said:

also the relaxed nature of the first few days of the funeral, lots of talking and eating

 

The final day at the crematorium is the most serious of the days and typically when you'll see emotions running at their highest

I am a bit confused about the talk of more than one day.  He died Sat and I was told 'the funeral will take place Monday'.  Nothing about other days!

[canthai55]

3 days is common. Day 1 at his or his families house - body for viewing. Day 2 at Temple for all and sundry. Day 3 cremation.

[billy54]

I have been to many funeral's here ,Each one different , from burning in a concrete pipe out in the fields , to a full ( i presume ) buddhist blow out , it can last any thing from 1 day upto i believe 9 , ( but i've never attended one of those ) always an ODD number of days , this is one of the events were gambling is allowed , ,usually  card games , a percentage goes towards the funeral cost's , there will be eating and drinking before the funeral march/walk to the cremetorium etc , then eating and drinking afterwards , dress sense a token of black would be respectfull  , but not necessary , as i say there are many variation's on this , it is usually a celebration of life ,,,moving onto a better place , Go enjoy yourself , 

[Thailand]

30 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I am a bit confused about the talk of more than one day.  He died Sat and I was told 'the funeral will take place Monday'.  Nothing about other days!

Buddhist funerals can be over a number of days both before and after the cremation.

 

You have been invited to the important day, the actual cremation. As mentioned, use common sense, wear and watch what others do.

[MartinL]

Typically, in my neck of the woods, there are at least 3 days before the cremation during which there are daily services in the evening - monks, prayers, food, chat etc. The cremation then takes place after that, usually about 1.30 > 3 or 4 pm. I asked my wife about this 'pre-funeral' bit and she said that, for the first 3 days, the deceased doesn't know (s)he's dead so has to be helped to realise the new circumstances and the daily prayers help with that transition - that was my understanding of what she told me, at least. Being totally non-religious this is all a bit much for me but, at the same time, it's quite a nice thought.

 

Crossy (Post 3 - is that one you reported for 'disrespect'?) was right, BTW.

 

Sitting for 3 hours in the stifling heat listening to monks can be very boring (although I haven't yet been deafened), for Thais and, probably even more, foreigners. When not actually praying, you'll usually see most attendees playing with their phones, chatting, laughing, telling jokes, getting up and walking about, even snoozing, anything  but appearing to listen to the proceedings in what we, as westerners, would regard as a 'respectful' manner. In fact, even though speakers have a microphone, it can often be difficult to hear over the background hubbub. You might also notice an apparent lack of emotion from the immediate family - I can't remember ever seeing the tears that are common at western funerals, at a Thai funeral.

 

I've been to dozens of funerals including 4 this year, mostly involving what I'd call 'middle-class' families. What I describe in the paragraph above is typical of all of them.

 

 

 

 

[DILLIGAD]

I have been to many funeral's here ,Each one different , from burning in a concrete pipe out in the fields , to a full ( i presume ) buddhist blow out , it can last any thing from 1 day upto i believe 9 , ( but i've never attended one of those ) always an ODD number of days , this is one of the events were gambling is allowed , ,usually  card games , a percentage goes towards the funeral cost's , there will be eating and drinking before the funeral march/walk to the cremetorium etc , then eating and drinking afterwards , dress sense a token of black would be respectfull  , but not necessary , as i say there are many variation's on this , it is usually a celebration of life ,,,moving onto a better place , Go enjoy yourself , 

I thought it was black or white? (Chinese influence, I was told)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MartinL]

4 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

I thought it was black or white? (Chinese influence, I was told)

 

 

I've been told that, traditionally, white was the colour of mourning here but that, in an effort to appear more 'western and modern' a past king started wearing black for funerals and so it became accepted. 

 

How true that is, I don't know.

[Peterw42]

45 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I am a bit confused about the talk of more than one day.  He died Sat and I was told 'the funeral will take place Monday'.  Nothing about other days!

I have attended a funeral for a Westerner here, it was arranged by relatives from home country via an international funeral company. It was a scaled down version of the Thai funeral and was only one day, everyone gathered, blessing from monks then cremation. I suspect it may be something similar since there is no mention of other days.

If the funeral has been arranged by western family or friends who have engaged a funeral company then it is sometimes more like a western funeral.

 

 

[StefanBBK]

Was unfortunate enough having to attend two funerals last year.
We went on cremation day. That seemed to be the normal time.
Arrived at given time, dressed in dark trousers, black shoes, white shirt, no tie.
Next giving condolences to the closest family of the diseased.
Find a seat and follow proceedings.
Some most respected people are announced ad give things to the monks.
Then some chanting.
At some point everyone gets up and proceeds past the coffin and monks. For that purpose you would be given the needed flower, candle etc,
Follow whatever everyone else is doing.
At the end you may receive some sort of amulet, or other little memorabilia.
Finally it comes to the cremation. If you are lucky it will be an automated process with not much too see. If not there might be a chance that one actually sees the coffin in flames. I have to admit I was a bit bewildered by that.
Anyway throughout the ceremony expect lots of praying, chanting, etc. Just make sure that you follow what everyone else is doing.
Have some cash ready to help with the funeral.
500 to 1,000 should generally be fine. If you like and can afford, feel free to give more, but remember that it is neither expected or necessary.
Sorry for your loss, and hope all will go well tomorrow!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, StefanBBK said:

Was unfortunate enough having to attend two funerals last year.
We went on cremation day. That seemed to be the normal time.
Arrived at given time, dressed in dark trousers, black shoes, white shirt, no tie.
Next giving condolences to the closest family of the diseased.
Find a seat and follow proceedings.
Some most respected people are announced ad give things to the monks.
Then some chanting.
At some point everyone gets up and proceeds past the coffin and monks. For that purpose you would be given the needed flower, candle etc,
Follow whatever everyone else is doing.
At the end you may receive some sort of amulet, or other little memorabilia.
Finally it comes to the cremation. If you are lucky it will be an automated process with not much too see. If not there might be a chance that one actually sees the coffin in flames. I have to admit I was a bit bewildered by that.
Anyway throughout the ceremony expect lots of praying, chanting, etc. Just make sure that you follow what everyone else is doing.
Have some cash ready to help with the funeral.
500 to 1,000 should generally be fine. If you like and can afford, feel free to give more, but remember that it is neither expected or necessary.
Sorry for your loss, and hope all will go well tomorrow!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thats a good summary of what happens, I just thought I would add what happens on the days prior to the cremation day. I was involved with my mother inlaws funeral.

 

Day one, the body comes from the hospitial/morge, there are no funeral directors etc so the transportation is one of those rescue vans that you see. Close family literally remove the body and move to a table, and the body is on display for that day. Lots of actual touching, hugging etc of the body and some rituals pouring water over your hand wilst holding the hand of the body. A little confronting if you are not prepared.

 

Day 2,3,4 etc, The body is back in a coffin and surrounded by flowers, usually a photo etc. Friends, family, acquaintances all visit and pay respects, kneel and light incense etc. A very casual affair, as others have mentioned people talk, play cards etc, a couple of sly bottles of whisky around the back. The family holds court and in a way hosts the event. Later that day the monks come and a formal chanting and offerings to monks etc, usually closer friends and family. Then when that is finished, every eats, a Huge catered affair 50-100 people. Repeat again tomorrow.

 

Lots of sitting around for hours, especially if you are immediate family. 

 

A broad observation would be, in the west we have a funeral followed by a wake, The Thai version is the opposite, a 3-4 day funeral that is like a wake, then the cremation.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Peterw42

[elektrified]

14 hours ago, cmsally said:

Good god don't wear a suit otherwise you might pass out from heatstroke !

I have never heard of "suggested donation", normally you should prepare a white envelope with your donation. If it was a close friend then 500 Bt is normally appropriate. Write your name on the front of the sealed envelope. Sometimes there is a designated box for this but best to hand over to a responsible relative just in case you put in the "temple roof repair fund " box by mistake !

 

I thought the "suggested donation" was odd too. It was on a sign along with the schedule of funeral events over the next 4 days or so (one evening family only, next family and friends, cremation in the morning of the 4th day, etc.)

White envelopes were passed out and collected by a family member. I handed mine in and then was asked to please put my name on it.

[scottiejohn]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

 

My apologies to Mesquite and Crossy for suggesting they were being insensitive.  I can see from the other responses that they were just being frank.  As I am sure you will appreciate I was not in the best frame of mind last night when I made the post(s).

[balo]

Maybe OT but Christian funerals in Thailand , are they the same as in the west  ? 

 

[Dante99]

13 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe OT but Christian funerals in Thailand , are they the same as in the west  ? 

 

Are all Christian funerals in the west the same?

[EricTh]

ScottieJohn

 

Is your friend a converted Buddhist?

 

Only Buddhist funeral are allowed to be held in a Buddhist temple.

 

I find it strange that there are Buddhist Europeans in Thailand.

[daveAustin]

Black shirt or white shirt fine. Nice, clean shoes a must. Don't need tie and virtually no-one wears a suit. Much prefer an upbeat Buddhist ceremony (when done properly) to dour Christian/Western ones, where everyone puts on a sombre face by default. It might go on a bit with the monk talks and chanting, but perfect opportunity to quietly meditate.