Was hit by car in a crosswalk. Enough is enough.

[mduras01]

This thread has me very very worried. I booked a trip to Thailand for 3 months, together with my wife and son. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 
 
When I researched the traffic situation , I am highly concerned to a point where I might not go but tickets cost me a lot!
 
We did not plan to drive, so we would be pedestrians.... I don't know whether to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong, but we want to do interesting things, not be stuck in one place...... it seems so unsafe......is this how it is in all roads? Or if we avoid main roads it will be ok?
 
Maybe if we stay in Hang Dong it's different? But are there things to do?

Been here 3 years and never had one issue crossing any road. I also drive and found it no different than driving in Mexico, or Dubai, or Miami. Just practice caution and common sense. You'll love Chiang Mai - Thai people are so kind.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Berkshire]

42 minutes ago, Asparutta said:

This thread has me very very worried. I booked a trip to Thailand for 3 months, together with my wife and son. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 

 

When I researched the traffic situation , I am highly concerned to a point where I might not go but tickets cost me a lot!

 

We did not plan to drive, so we would be pedestrians.... I don't know whether to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong, but we want to do interesting things, not be stuck in one place...... it seems so unsafe......is this how it is in all roads? Or if we avoid main roads it will be ok?

 

Maybe if we stay in Hang Dong it's different? But are there things to do?

Threads like this are always filled with massive exaggerations and outright lies.  Don't listen to the hysteria.  Some farangs on TV love to complain about everything Thai--it does make you wonder how the freak they can survive here.

 

I drive every single day in Thailand.  Have done so for 10+ years.  No problems.  When I get behind the wheel, all I'm thinking about is my destination and how best to get there.  I don't worry about getting in an accident or losing my life the way some of these other wussies do.  That's just nonsense.  All it requires is common sense and basic adaptation skills.  If one has a problem with either, one should not drive in Thailand.     

[Asparutta]

6 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Threads like this are always filled with massive exaggerations and outright lies.  Don't listen to the hysteria.  Some farangs on TV love to complain about everything Thai--it does make you wonder how the freak they can survive here.

 

I drive every single day in Thailand.  Have done so for 10+ years.  No problems.  When I get behind the wheel, all I'm thinking about is my destination and how best to get there.  I don't worry about getting in an accident or losing my life the way some of these other wussies do.  That's just nonsense.  All it requires is common sense and basic adaptation skills.  If one has a problem with either, one should not drive in Thailand.     

Ok, that's great - I now see that there may be some exaggeration and maybe I do not need to be that worried. However, during our 3 month stay, we did not plan to drive, can we be safe as pedestrians? And is it possible to use local public transport without spending a lot of money? Or is it absolutely necessary to drive a car? (If so, then we will hire a car)

[Dante99]

54 minutes ago, Asparutta said:

This thread has me very very worried. I booked a trip to Thailand for 3 months, together with my wife and son. We planned to come to Chiang Mai and live there for the 3 month period.... However, we imagined, a nice place in the mountains with cheap cost of living and many nice places to go out, eat, relax and enjoy...... 

 

When I researched the traffic situation , I am highly concerned to a point where I might not go but tickets cost me a lot!

 

We did not plan to drive, so we would be pedestrians.... I don't know whether to live in Chiang Mai or Hang Dong, but we want to do interesting things, not be stuck in one place...... it seems so unsafe......is this how it is in all roads? Or if we avoid main roads it will be ok?

 

Maybe if we stay in Hang Dong it's different? But are there things to do?

Your imagination does not fit with the reality.  For starts, most of CM residents do not live in the mountains, just a few do.

 

To live in Thailand comfortably requires a higher level of personal responsibility than in most western countries.  That includes responsibility for your safety on or around roads, responsibility for providing for your health care, responsibility for what you eat and much more.

 

If you do not have or do not want to exercise an ususual and new high level of personal responsibility for yourself and your family, it would be best not to come to Thailand.

 

 

[Asparutta]

4 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Your imagination does not fit with the reality.  For starts, most of CM residents do not live in the mountains, just a few do.

 

To live in Thailand comfortably requires a higher level of personal responsibility than in most western countries.  That includes responsibility for your safety on or around roads, responsibility for providing for your health care, responsibility for what you eat and much more.

 

If you do not have or do not want to exercise an ususual and new high level of personal responsibility for yourself and your family, it would be best not to come to Thailand.

 

 

I lived in Mongolia for 1 year so I kind of know where you're getting at.... I think I am OK with taking care of my own health, and being careful of what I eat and from where etc... but of course if one cannot go for walks safely it kind of defeats the purpose of a family holiday

[EricTh]

Just now, Asparutta said:

However, during our 3 month stay, we did not plan to drive, can we be safe as pedestrians? And is it possible to use local public transport without spending a lot of money? Or is it absolutely necessary to drive a car? (If so, then we will hire a car)

 

Local public transport is more expensive for foreigners because they charge more.

 

It's better to hire a motorbike (not a bicycle) because the roads in city center are much narrow than European roads and it's difficult to find parking for a car.

 

See my 'survival guide on crossing in Thailand' thread and you will be safe as pedestrian. Don't assume that you are in Italy and that will be fine.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by EricTh

[Henryford]

Zebra crossings are the most dangerous place to cross a road. It's an invitation for thai drivers to accelerate and try to get you. Dangerous for the foreign driver as well. I am tempted to slow and stop for people crossing but know if i did i would be rear ended by thai drivers behind me.

[Asparutta]

4 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Local public transport is more expensive for foreigners because they charge more.

 

It's better to hire a motorbike (not a bicycle) because the roads in city center are much narrow than European roads and it's difficult to find parking for a car.

 

See my 'survival guide on crossing in Thailand' thread and you will be safe as pedestrian. Don't assume that you are in Italy and that will be fine.

 

 

Ok, well we cannot hire a motor bike as we are a family of 3, with a 9 year old son.... so it's either a car or walk. If we want to just walk everywhere, and we stay in Chiang Mai old city........is that good enough? Even if rent will be a bit higher, much better than all the hassle. 

[Dante99]

53 minutes ago, Asparutta said:

I lived in Mongolia for 1 year so I kind of know where you're getting at.... I think I am OK with taking care of my own health, and being careful of what I eat and from where etc... but of course if one cannot go for walks safely it kind of defeats the purpose of a family holiday

Get serious.  How many reports of not being able to walk safely in CM do you find?  Do you find repeated reports of pedestrians being slaughtered by the hundreds weekly? How many thousands of people walk safely in CM and have done so for many many years?  If you enjoy taking insignificant facts and make them into elephants that intimidate you, have fun but don't come to CM.

You are looking for an excuse not to come and have found one, congratulations.

[Asparutta]

4 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Get serious.  How many reports of not being able to walk safely in CM do you find?  Do you find repeated reports of pedestrians being slaughtered by the hundreds weekly? How many thousands of people walk safely in CM and have done so for many many years?  If you enjoy taking insignificant facts and make them into elephants that intimidate you, have fun but don't come to CM.

You are looking for an excuse not to come and have found one, congratulations.

Not at all Dante99 - I am determined to come, and to make it work for us. That is why i stayed up until 5am ensuring it does after having bought the tickets. I understand that I do not really have to be worried from what I see - but I would appreciate advice on where to rent in order to make life as a pedestrian more simple....from what I am thinking...it seems like the Old City is the best place as everything seems to be walking distance and I hope there are not many big busy roads to keep crossing..... 

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

 

Pattaya spent a lot of money putting those pedestrian controlled crossings along beach road and other major roads. They were ignored by most drivers who just continued on as if there was no red light. In the end the city turned them off.

 

 

 

Most of them still work in Chiang Mai. The three nearest to Chiang Puak Gate do work, and drivers (often) pay attention to them. Just not often enough to let you get cocky. You still have to look both ways before crossing... the one-way street.

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, Asparutta said:

Ok, that's great - I now see that there may be some exaggeration and maybe I do not need to be that worried. However, during our 3 month stay, we did not plan to drive, can we be safe as pedestrians? And is it possible to use local public transport without spending a lot of money? Or is it absolutely necessary to drive a car? (If so, then we will hire a car)

Depending on your financial situation, it could be better for you to stay in Chiang Mai city, and then take trips out to various tourist attractions. There are plenty of shops offering visits all around Chiang Mai province. It needs local knowledge to drive a car, as there are one ways, U turns, roads going off in many directions, and it's not easy to find your way around first time.

 

Local yellow buses are cheap as chips, but there again you need to know where you're going as they have fixed routes. The red buses will take you anywhere but they will charge for the service, and some will see you as rich, so beware not to get ripped off. The little tuk-tuk carriages (max 2 adults plus small child) will take you around the city, sometimes they'll be reasonable if you negotiate a price first.

 

As to being a pedestrian in the old city moat road area, with its hundreds of restaurants and shopping outlets in the night bazaar, it's a doddle - really is not a safety issue, if you keep alert to what's going on around you. Every time I go into town, I park my car and walk around wherever I need to go. 

 

As to Hang Dong, you need transport to get around (apart from one yellow bus route that goes to and fro into the city), and there's not a lot going on. Don't recommend it for a family tourist holiday.

 

 

 

 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Asparutta said:

Ok, that's great - I now see that there may be some exaggeration and maybe I do not need to be that worried. However, during our 3 month stay, we did not plan to drive, can we be safe as pedestrians? And is it possible to use local public transport without spending a lot of money? Or is it absolutely necessary to drive a car? (If so, then we will hire a car)

Firstly, millions of tourists come to Chiang Mai every year and from what I understand, nearly all survive to return home (sorry for the sarcasm).  Walking is fine unless you have a propensity to walk out in front of moving vehicles.  I will say the sidewalks in some areas (if there are sidewalks at all) get a bit congested with vendors, making it difficult to traverse.  Public transport is not as plentiful as say, BKK.  CM largely has red trucks and 3-wheelers.  Personally, I couldn't go 3 months without transport and would rent a car or motorcycle.  A car with driver would cost you around 1,500 bt/day + fuel.  You can rent one and drive yourself for much less.   

[Asparutta]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Depending on your financial situation, it could be better for you to stay in Chiang Mai city, and then take trips out to various tourist attractions. There are plenty of shops offering visits all around Chiang Mai province. It needs local knowledge to drive a car, as there are one ways, U turns, roads going off in many directions, and it's not easy to find your way around first time.

 

Local yellow buses are cheap as chips, but there again you need to know where you're going as they have fixed routes. The red buses will take you anywhere but they will charge for the service, and some will see you as rich, so beware not to get ripped off. The little tuk-tuk carriages (max 2 adults plus small child) will take you around the city, sometimes they'll be reasonable if you negotiate a price first.

 

As to being a pedestrian in the old city moat road area, with its hundreds of restaurants and shopping outlets in the night bazaar, it's a doddle - really is not a safety issue, if you keep alert to what's going on around you. Every time I go into town, I park my car and walk around wherever I need to go. 

 

As to Hang Dong, you need transport to get around (apart from one yellow bus route that goes to and fro into the city), and there's not a lot going on. Don't recommend it for a family tourist holiday.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, this is SUCH amazing help! What about Night Bazar Area which is supposed to be a bit cheaper than the immediate Old City Area?

[Asparutta]

6 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Firstly, millions of tourists come to Chiang Mai every year and from what I understand, nearly all survive to return home (sorry for the sarcasm).  Walking is fine unless you have a propensity to walk out in front of moving vehicles.  I will say the sidewalks in some areas (if there are sidewalks at all) get a bit congested with vendors, making it difficult to traverse.  Public transport is not as plentiful as say, BKK.  CM largely has red trucks and 3-wheelers.  Personally, I couldn't go 3 months without transport and would rent a car or motorcycle.  A car with driver would cost you around 1,500 bt/day + fuel.  You can rent one and drive yourself for much less.   

Right! and if u ever read about driving / traffic in Malta you will read much of the same as what I read in this forum, I just worried a bit because I really do not want to put my son in harm's way....and as he is 9, he might not be as cautious / aware of danger as we can be.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, Asparutta said:

Thanks, this is SUCH amazing help! What about Night Bazar Area which is supposed to be a bit cheaper than the immediate Old City Area?

Cheap is 'relative' to the standard of goods and services you currently purchase. While Thailand is generally less expensive than the western world, remember Chiang Mai city caters for tourists, and clothes, goodies etc you can buy in the night bazaar would be cheaper in the local Thai markets. On Saturday and Sunday there is an extensive street market in the city, and worth a visit.

[JayBird]

19 hours ago, deepinlaos said:

the crosswalks in thailand confuse things.......better to cross where there isn't one......the rules are clear then

 

The zebra crossings were just painted by someone who saw them on tele and thought they looked interesting.  They don't actually mean anything.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

What you are seeing here are over-hyped hysterical reactions to a post by someone who seems to believe that the (Chiang Mai) world should revolve around him.
 
So please don't be put off by some of the alarmist responses, especially those that denigrate Thais and their way of life (including their driving habits). Chiang Mai is a lovely city with plenty of things to do and the majority of Thais are nice, happy-go-lucky people. If as a pedestrian, you exercise the same level of discretion and care  (as you would in your own country) then you will come to no harm whatsoever.
 
Regards,
 
Joe

Wrong.

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[stephenterry]

6 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Wrong.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Right, which is about as helpful as your - I was going to write response, but a response would detail what was 'wrong' with the previous post. Knee jerk reaction, maybe?

Edited April 7, 2017 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[Shoeless Joe]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

Get serious.  How many reports of not being able to walk safely in CM do you find?  Do you find repeated reports of pedestrians being slaughtered by the hundreds weekly? How many thousands of people walk safely in CM and have done so for many many years?  If you enjoy taking insignificant facts and make them into elephants that intimidate you, have fun but don't come to CM.

You are looking for an excuse not to come and have found one, congratulations.

That's it? What a typical, self-aggrandising nasty, spitelfulanswer to someone who has genuine concerns about visiting (or living) in Chiang Mai.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

With no regards whatsoever,

 

Joe

 

[sanemax]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:29 PM, THAlx said:

I have waited for about 5 or 7 or so minutes in the crosswalk before crossing (near Chang Phueak Gate), in an expectation that anybody would stop and let me go (naive1).

Hes a hint about crossing the road .

Walk to the traffic lights, press the button and wait for the cars to stop, then walk across the road .

    Make eye contact with the drivers and hold your hand up , just to ensure that he has seen you and he will stop

   Its quite easy to cross the road 

[canthai55]

5 pages of how to cross the road. I see some serious issues here ...

[Destiny1990]

49 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Hes a hint about crossing the road .

Walk to the traffic lights, press the button and wait for the cars to stop, then walk across the road .

    Make eye contact with the drivers and hold your hand up , just to ensure that he has seen you and he will stop

   Its quite easy to cross the road 

Press the button and wait for the cars to stop?hahaja your are hilarious.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Press the button and wait for the cars to stop?hahaja your are hilarious.

They do stop at that crossing , Ive crossed their numerous times 

[Destiny1990]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They do stop at that crossing , Ive crossed their numerous times 

Okay so you talk about a specific crossing?Sure its possible that crossing is safe but the majority is still unsafe.need stop signs infront zebras ,speed hills ,40 km zones,and cops fining wrong doers.

[partington]

I don't believe in cultural relativism. There are certain objective moral truths.

 

One of these is that a society that facilitates an unnecessarily large number of preventable deaths is worse than a society which minimises them, because deaths cause a great burden of human suffering.

 

Thai driving habits have caused their country to have the second or third highest road traffic mortality per capita in the entire world.  

 

This is not a marginal or insignificant amount: per 100,000 vehicles on the road Thailand's drivers cause 15 times more fatalities than UK drivers, and 6 times more fatalities than US drivers per year. Injuries and maimings are also proportionally higher.

 

I do not feel the view that 'this is just how things are so let's just accept' it is justified . Thais kill more of their citizens on the road than 200 other countries  because of the way they are allowed to drive. This needs prevention.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, partington said:

I don't believe in cultural relativism. There are certain objective moral truths.

 

One of these is that a society that facilitates an unnecessarily large number of preventable deaths is worse than a society which minimises them, because deaths cause a great burden of human suffering.

 

Thai driving habits have caused their country to have the second or third highest road traffic mortality per capita in the entire world.  

 

This is not a marginal or insignificant amount: per 100,000 vehicles on the road Thailand's drivers cause 15 times more fatalities than UK drivers, and 6 times more fatalities than US drivers per year. Injuries and maimings are also proportionally higher.

 

I do not feel the view that 'this is just how things are so let's just accept' it is justified . Thais kill more of their citizens on the road than 200 other countries  because of the way they are allowed to drive. This needs prevention.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

it would be interesting to see this statistic separated for motorcycles and 4+ wheeled vehicles.

 

I believe the statistic would still be high in comparison to many other countries, and when compared to other countries with very high motorcycle usage Thailand is way up there which does identify major issues in Thailand. 

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Hes a hint about crossing the road .

Walk to the traffic lights, press the button and wait for the cars to stop, then walk across the road .

    Make eye contact with the drivers and hold your hand up , just to ensure that he has seen you and he will stop

   Its quite easy to cross the road 

 

Do you really think that people in Thailand will behave like Europeans or Americans back in their country?

 

Most cars will stop if there is a large group of people crossing the Zebra crossing. If you are the only one or two people crossing, expect them to ignore the lights.

 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, partington said:

I don't believe in cultural relativism. There are certain objective moral truths.

 

One of these is that a society that facilitates an unnecessarily large number of preventable deaths is worse than a society which minimises them, because deaths cause a great burden of human suffering.

 

Thai driving habits have caused their country to have the second or third highest road traffic mortality per capita in the entire world.  

 

This is not a marginal or insignificant amount: per 100,000 vehicles on the road Thailand's drivers cause 15 times more fatalities than UK drivers, and 6 times more fatalities than US drivers per year. Injuries and maimings are also proportionally higher.

 

I do not feel the view that 'this is just how things are so let's just accept' it is justified . Thais kill more of their citizens on the road than 200 other countries  because of the way they are allowed to drive. This needs prevention.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

You guys do this time and time again, recycling stats without providing any perspective, only to support your slanted narrative.  Something like 75-80% of the road fatalities in Thailand are motorcycles.  That's because the millions of motorcycles have to share the roads with just as many cars, trucks, vans, buses, etc.  Very few places in the world is like this.  I don't know about Europe, but the USA has a tiny number of motorcycles compared to Thailand (yet, we still kill thousands every year).  In other places, there are far more motorcycles.  Mixing cars and bikes on the roads is not nearly as dangerous for a car driver as it is for a motorcycle rider.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

Do you really think that people in Thailand will behave like Europeans or Americans back in their country?

 

Most cars will stop if there is a large group of people crossing the Zebra crossing. If you are the only one or two people crossing, expect them to ignore the lights.

 

 

   The traffic lights in the vicinity of where the OP crossed is one of those traffic light places where numerous people all cross at the same time