A fine old mess

[ajarngreg]

13 hours ago, Deserted said:

If I was loaded I would pay it but I really am not. I couldn't even pay half of it and have lost my transport as a result. It's put me in a difficult position and I did nothing wrong. I was the victim yet I get hit for heavy bills for work that achieved nothing and I never asked for. It just isn't right to me. 

 

       If my grandmother would have a penis, it would be my grandfather. The victims are the hospitals, taxpayers ( including me) and the ambulance cars don't drive on water. 

[Deserted]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You should negotiate with the hospital to reduce the bill if possible, and then pay. If necessary, in installments.

 

In terms of negotiation -- the head CT was very likely medically necessary to rule out an intracerebral bleed which, had it been present, could have killed you or left you with permanent brain damage. You do not have any reasonable ground to object to it. In fact, you should be grateful they did it.

 

I have never heard of a neck CT.

 

And cannot understand why a chest CT would have been indicated (though a Chest Xray might have been).

 

On the other hand the total charge you report is less than would be expected if you had really undergone 3 CTs in addition to ER care. Is it possible you are confusing xrays with scans?

 

Anyhow - you can at least question the necessity of the chest scan and "neck scan" (whatever that was).  The head CT, you should pay for along with the ER care.

 

From Din Dang,  quickest hospital to get to would usually be Bumrungrad - straight shot on the expressway. As you were unconscious -- and possibly seizing - the emergency staff were quite correct in opting for the quickest place.

 

You seem to take head injuries leading to loss of consciousness rather lightly. They are not something to shrug off just because in 2 cases you were unusually lucky. They  next one could  be your last.

 

As for "back dating" the accident that would be insurance fraud. Do not even think of it (and certainly do not expect the hospital to aid and abet with it).

 

Hi yes, they gave one scan to the head and you are right it was x-rays to the chest and neck. I should state I have a graze on one shoulder, that is it for that area so I too don't understand. I was where din daeng and ratchatewi meet. 

 

The whole purpose of this post is to question how come one hospital waited til I came round and then asked what I wanted to do. The other do what they want then hit me with the bill. I had cuts yes but none major and was unconscious. Yes I had a broken nose but that's hardly life-threatening.

 

My main point is had I been a Thai person, would they have sent me there? Why should I suffer from the prejudice of a volunteer service. We contacted them enough times and explained everything. The person we spoke to also couldn't understand it. The Bungrumrad also said they couldn't understand why I was sent there given how close I was to the hospital at ratchatewi I was. I think you are correct about the CT scan and ER care but beyond that I will speak to the hospital again. If I had many injuries in both areas then okay but I do not even have one and only 4 in my entire body. Anyway thanks for your input. I will consider what is best.

[Deserted]

23 hours ago, eisfeld said:

No insurance, bicycle as main mode of transportation on BKK roads, tailgating a truck, thinking about back dating the accident which is insurance fraud... hm sorry to say but you really should rethink your decision making process all around.

 

If you as a foreigner got a job then surely you are being paid something like 50k THB? Negotiate the total amount down and then do monthly payments of 2-3k for a year or so. That shouldn't hurt too much and at least you get out of that story. And after that year, keep setting that same amount to the side for future unexpected expenses.

You have a point here but sadly I work part time and had to pay everything to cover my daughter's school fees. I cycle everywhere to save money. I cannot afford taxis. I work part time only but that will change next month. Some of us have hard times.

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, Deserted said:

Hi yes, they gave one scan to the head and you are right it was x-rays to the chest and neck. I should state I have a graze on one shoulder, that is it for that area so I too don't understand. I was where din daeng and ratchatewi meet. 

 

The whole purpose of this post is to question how come one hospital waited til I came round and then asked what I wanted to do. The other do what they want then hit me with the bill. I had cuts yes but none major and was unconscious. Yes I had a broken nose but that's hardly life-threatening.

 

My main point is had I been a Thai person, would they have sent me there? Why should I suffer from the prejudice of a volunteer service. We contacted them enough times and explained everything. The person we spoke to also couldn't understand it. The Bungrumrad also said they couldn't understand why I was sent there given how close I was to the hospital at ratchatewi I was. I think you are correct about the CT scan and ER care but beyond that I will speak to the hospital again. If I had many injuries in both areas then okay but I do not even have one and only 4 in my entire body. Anyway thanks for your input. I will consider what is best.

 

They took you to the one of the most expensive hospitals in Thailand.  I advise paying in instalments.  And if they still maintain you pay all then perhaps speak to a lawyer.

[Deserted]

As mentioned, had I been Thai this would not have happened. I was knocked out for a few hours with a broken nose and a few nasty cuts and a few other cuts. The main cut is above the eye. Seems all too much for a minor situation.  and I don't think its wrong to question what happens in this country. Even the woman I spoke to said 'it was their policy' in a rather sympathetic manner.   

[Deserted]

It's left me with the feeling that the Bungrumrad is a business and only that. They submit people to get money out of them rather than help them. 

[rott]

All the major banks offer accident insurance costing between 2000 / 5000 a year, probably would not cover the full costs in your case but if they had seen a limit they would very likely not have done all the scans. If you are spending a lot of time on a bike how much more proof do you need that insurance is an essential not an option.

 

Why would you expect to be taken to a Government hospital? They are basically for Thais who cannot afford private treatment.

 

You rolled the dice by not insuring and lost out big time. Your fault not theirs. As has been said you will be a statistic if health insurance is one day made compulsory.

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, rott said:

All the major banks offer accident insurance costing between 2000 / 5000 a year, probably would not cover the full costs in your case but if they had seen a limit they would very likely not have done all the scans. If you are spending a lot of time on a bike how much more proof do you need that insurance is an essential not an option.

 

Why would you expect to be taken to a Government hospital? They are basically for Thais who cannot afford private treatment.

 

You rolled the dice by not insuring and lost out big time. Your fault not theirs. As has been said you will be a statistic if health insurance is one day made compulsory.

 

Equally, why would he expect to be taken to the most expensive hospital?

 

And seemingly another hospital was closer.

[cunningstunt]

These head injuries will come back to haunt you in later life.
You just had 2. How you know that's the end of them, sounds like your on a roll.

Bycycle in bangkok is insanity.

[rott]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Equally, why would he expect to be taken to the most expensive hospital?

 

And seemingly another hospital was closer.

Sheryl covers both points.

 

Reading his posts he cannot really afford to be here, so he is constantly at risk of something causing a major financial problem.

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, rott said:

Sheryl covers both points.

 

Reading his posts he cannot really afford to be here, so he is constantly at risk of something causing a major financial problem.

 

"The Bungrumrad also said they couldn't understand why I was sent there given how close I was to the hospital at ratchatewi I was."

 

 

Cycling in Bangkok is akin to a dangerous sport imo.

[swissie]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You should negotiate with the hospital to reduce the bill if possible, and then pay. If necessary, in installments.

 

In terms of negotiation -- the head CT was very likely medically necessary to rule out an intracerebral bleed which, had it been present, could have killed you or left you with permanent brain damage. You do not have any reasonable ground to object to it. In fact, you should be grateful they did it.

 

I have never heard of a neck CT.

 

And cannot understand why a chest CT would have been indicated (though a Chest Xray might have been).

 

On the other hand the total charge you report is less than would be expected if you had really undergone 3 CTs in addition to ER care. Is it possible you are confusing xrays with scans?

 

Anyhow - you can at least question the necessity of the chest scan and "neck scan" (whatever that was).  The head CT, you should pay for along with the ER care.

 

From Din Dang,  quickest hospital to get to would usually be Bumrungrad - straight shot on the expressway. As you were unconscious -- and possibly seizing - the emergency staff were quite correct in opting for the quickest place.

 

You seem to take head injuries leading to loss of consciousness rather lightly. They are not something to shrug off just because in 2 cases you were unusually lucky. They  next one could  be your last.

 

As for "back dating" the accident that would be insurance fraud. Do not even think of it (and certainly do not expect the hospital to aid and abet with it).

 

Hi Sheryl,
a couple of months back, I read in the Thai-Media, that every Hospital has to provide free emergency services for the first 72 hours. After 72 hours, regular hospital fees would be charged.
Question:
- Did I get this wrong ? or
- Does this only apply to Thai-Nationals ?
Thx & cheers.

[Sheryl]

It applies solely to persons covered by one of the 3 government schemes: Social Security, Civil Service Social Security, and the "30 baht" scheme. Only foreigners with  Social Security would be covered.

 

there is nothing "minor" about an accident with head trauma that leaves you unconscious for several hours. Not at all.

 

It is also wrong to assume your condition and all clinical signs was identical to the last time you were "knocked out" in an accident. In fact, you report being told you had a seizure. that is a very dangerous sign and it would have been grossly negligent of the hospital not to have done a head scan in that case.

 

It is also possible that the first hospital was remiss/took chances with your life in order to first be sure of payment.  Not praise-worthy. Again, that you recovered fully is sheer luck, not an inevitable l feature of such accidents. It could just have easily gone the other way.

 

Thai people do indeed get taken to private hospitals by ambulances and get stuck with bid bills as a result, a fact that has been extensively discussed in the press and is why they are trying now (with limited success) to enforce the law you referred to. Which is of no use to you since you are not covered under any government scheme.

 

Instead of thinking yourself somehow victimized or discriminated against, understand that this is a very mild version of what can happen if you are uninsured here. Even if only taken to government hospitals -- something which, as you have discovered, you cannot assure if you are unconscious --  it is quite possibel to incur bills in the millions of baht if you sustain a serious injury. 

 

Talk to the hospital -- nicely -- and (1) see if they can discount the bill somewhat. The Xrays may not have been necessary or in any case could likely have waited. The CT scan of your head, not. You may be able to bargain the bill down some on those grounds, i.e. take the position that as you gave no consent  to be in their hospital or receive treatment you should only have to pay for really urgent care that could not have waited.  (2) Set up a payment plan. The hospital will agree to it, it is in their interest to as currently they are altogether unpaid (though they will take down all your details and follow up if you miss a payment).

 

By the way, delayed intracranial hemorrhages can occur days or even weeks after a head injury. And are very serious.

[Deserted]

Cycling is a bit dangerous. I cycled over 8000kms last year, had 3400kms for this year already. The accident last year was my first ever in over 30 years of riding with many years in this city. I honestly didn't believe it would happen again but it has. 

 

Finances, my work stopped in Feb then I had school fees to pay, I got wiped out more or less. It stays that way until the end of May. For some of us its hard sometimes, I fit into that category. It's not that I don't appreciate the work done because I do believe me but as mentioned, when this happened last year it was handled very differently and more respectfully I would say. I was given options. Again, would this have happened if I were Thai?

[stravers]

I too cycle every day. I cycle very very slowly. It's the only way to avoid the same type of accidents you describe. 

[Deserted]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It applies solely to persons covered by one of the 3 government schemes: Social Security, Civil Service Social Security, and the "30 baht" scheme. Only foreigners with  Social Security would be covered.

 

there is nothing "minor" about an accident with head trauma that leaves you unconscious for several hours. Not at all.

 

It is also wrong to assume your condition and all clinical signs was identical to the last time you were "knocked out" in an accident. In fact, you report being told you had a seizure. that is a very dangerous sign and it would have been grossly negligent of the hospital not to have done a head scan in that case.

 

It is also possible that the first hospital was remiss/took chances with your life in order to first be sure of payment.  Not praise-worthy. Again, that you recovered fully is sheer luck, not an inevitable l feature of such accidents. It could just have easily gone the other way.

 

Thai people do indeed get taken to private hospitals by ambulances and get stuck with bid bills as a result, a fact that has been extensively discussed in the press and is why they are trying now (with limited success) to enforce the law you referred to. Which is of no use to you since you are not covered under any government scheme.

 

Instead of thinking yourself somehow victimized or discriminated against, understand that this is a very mild version of what can happen if you are uninsured here. Even if only taken to government hospitals -- something which, as you have discovered, you cannot assure if you are unconscious --  it is quite possibel to incur bills in the millions of baht if you sustain a serious injury. 

 

Talk to the hospital -- nicely -- and (1) see if they can discount the bill somewhat. The Xrays may not have been necessary or in any case could likely have waited. The CT scan of your head, not. You may be able to bargain the bill down some on those grounds, i.e. take the position that as you gave no consent  to be in their hospital or receive treatment you should only have to pay for really urgent care that could not have waited.  (2) Set up a payment plan. The hospital will agree to it, it is in their interest to as currently they are altogether unpaid (though they will take down all your details and follow up if you miss a payment).

 

By the way, delayed intracranial hemorrhages can occur days or even weeks after a head injury. And are very serious.

Yes point taken. They told me that in the hospital and asked me to come back. All points appreciated but tbh I felt fine 3 days after and swelling on the face is almost gone already. I will re-read what you have said. It does feel as though I were discriminated against but you are right in that they were doing their job and only that. It is the policy set by the hospital that grates and I suppose it could have ended badly last year had things been different. It is perhaps time I stopped cycling.  

[Sheryl]

It is quite possible that this policy was put into place in light of the new law. the government is cracking down on private hospitals refusing people life saving care.

 

[ajarngreg]

1 hour ago, Deserted said:

You have a point here but sadly I work part time and had to pay everything to cover my daughter's school fees. I cycle everywhere to save money. I cannot afford taxis. I work part time only but that will change next month. Some of us have hard times.

   I start to understand the situation you're in and really feel sorry for you. Not only "some of us", plenty of people here have huge problems, especially when they'd lost all their money and refuse to go back.

 

  Thousands of older expats without any insurance, and quite a lot of hospitals who keep sitting on their unpaid bills and it doesn't seem to get better. 

 

    Should you throw up, then please see that as a sign that you do have a serious problem and rest as much as you can. Make sure that you've got a friend/neighbor who's aware what happened, who'll pick you up in minutes, should you collapse. As Sheryl said, it can take a while. 

 

      It's good to see that you've obviously understood that the main mistake was done by your own actions and not by ambulance car drivers, or doctors of certain hospitals.

 

  It's also not about who's caused the accidents now. You seem to be a great daddy who really takes care of his daughter. Please don't take her around on your bicycle. Please.....

 

    I hope that your daughter's also covered with your new BUPA insurance and wish you the best that all goes well for your daughter and you. 

 

   You could try to come to a gentlemen agreement and pay only a part of the hospital fees. I'm pretty sure that they'll say yes to it, agree to let's say 20 K and will be okay with a little sum in monthly installments. 

 

  Please see it as wake up call. Your daughter could be without a  daddy now and please don't blame doctors for trying to make sure that you didn't have any life threatening problems.

 

   Best of luck, I hope you'll like your new job and things will be fine. Cheers- 

Edited April 20, 2017 by ajarngreg

[BruceMangosteen]

Why are the police holding your bicycle? God Blessed You. OO.

[Jeffrey346]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:19 AM, Deserted said:

i was not covered at the time of the accident but if they want to help me clear it, can't they post date the accident by two weeks? How much of it would Bupa cover?

This is the problem.. You want out of the hospitals billed services because the scan showed nothing.. and you have no issue scamming the insurance company. You"re a loser.. pay the bill.. BTW EMS drivers get 300B for  bringing someone to a Gov hospital and 500 from private hospitals.. 

[dotpoom]

I was sympethic to your story until you said you don' t see why you should pay for scans that showed nothing. Surely whether they showed something or not has absolutely nothing to do with anything,....the fact is they were done and someone has to pay for them (God forbid, if they did show something you may feel different) whether they should have been done or not is a completely different story. It's like someone calling the Fire Brigade on your behalf because your house was on fire and you not wanting to pay for it because you didn't ask for it.

Edited April 21, 2017 by dotpoom

[chrissables]

On 4/19/2017 at 11:04 PM, swissie said:

What if those scans would have shown a serious injury, that would have needed immediate treatment to save your live?

Not having health insurance and not having emergency funds to cover a hospital bill of US$ 1600 ? Hmmm.....
Another hospital-bill that will remain unpaid by a Farang?

Do you realise, that this is the reason that more and more Thai-Hospitals refuse treatment for Farangs, unless their ability to pay is established before they do ANYTHING AT ALL, even in an emergency?
Cheers.

The scan showed nothing wrong, your comment is worthless regarding what if.........

 

If the garbage truck caused the accident, they (local council, whomever) should pay.

 

I did a very short bike ride yesterday in Pattaya, three minibuses pulled out in front of me, causing me to skid trying to avoid them. Two big four by fours overtook me and decided to stop immediately without signalling.

 

If you are in accident is cause by others, make them pay, instead of attacking the victim of an accident. 

Edited April 21, 2017 by chrissables

[dotpoom]

I was sympethic to your story until you said you don' t see why you should pay for scans that showed nothing. Surely whether they showed something or not has absolutely nothing to do with anything,....the fact is they were.don and someone has to pay for them, whether they should have been done or not is a completely different story. It's like someone calling the Fire Brigade on your behalf because your house was on fire and you not wanting to pay for it because you didn't ask for it.

[chrissables]

23 hours ago, simon43 said:

I read your original post.  You had an accident on your bicycle and were left unconscious, (Were you wearing a bike helmet?).  You were taken to a hospital, but when you regained consciousness, you walked out without paying the bill.  (Regardless that the ambulance were staffed by volunteers, there would have been a cost involved, including that of the doctors who initially treated you).

 

Then a similar event happened (were you wearing a bike helmet?).  This time, you were taken to a private hospital and so the costs involved were higher than that for the government hospital.  Again, you walked out without paying.

 

Now you want to defraud Bupa by trying to get the doctors to change the date of your new medical insurance.

 

By your own comments, you do not have the money to pay the hospital bills, even though in both cases they acted to help you in accidents which could have killed you.  (As a lay person, you cannot claim that the injury were of a minor nature - if you are knocked unconscious, then it is possibly a life-threatening injury).

 

I'm not going to pass judgement on you, but I suggest you stop cycling for a start.  

What's with the helmet nonsense? Did not wearing one cause the accident?

Why do people always criticize the victim?

Is a helmet the law?  

Why not at least argue the case for the person who caused the accident to pay?

[Minnie the Minx]

Point of fact:

 

1) Take out medical insurance and  don't live in a foreign country expecting others to foot your bills, and whinge when someone is trying to save your life. You could have ended up dead. Running away from bills yeah ok, very honourable I'm sure.

 

2) Wear a helmet.

 

3) Stay off the bike.

 

4) Grow up.

 

5) Won't articulate a name but applies in your case.

 

Have a great day.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Minnie the Minx

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

If you died due to them not doing the scans we would have read about it here in the news and 50% or more of the TV members would have condemned them. Pay your bills, you knew the risks before the accident and didn't take out insurance (you where even warned - the first accident). If you can't afford insurance then it maybe better to return home as you will have more problems in future as you get older.

[simon43]

What's with the helmet nonsense? Did not wearing one cause the accident?

 

Of course not.  But wearing a bike helmet could be the difference between living and dying when that accident occurs.

[chrissables]

11 minutes ago, Minnie the Minx said:

Point of fact:

 

1) Take out medical insurance and  don't live in a foreign country expecting others to foot your bills, and whinge when someone is trying to save your life. You could have ended up dead. Running away from bills yeah ok, very honourable I'm sure.

 

2) Wear a helmet.

 

3) Stay off the bike.

 

4) Grow up.

 

5) Won't articulate a name but applies in your case.

 

Have a great day.

1. Not your business. 

2. Not the law.

3. Not your business.

5. Explain?

6. Why criticize if you won't state who you are criticizing? 

[soalbundy]

On 4/19/2017 at 11:29 PM, swissie said:

Could be they got their commission from the hospital in question. OR: They figured a Farang has the means to pay for a "good" hospital, knowing that sometimes government hospitals "are not so good". We will never know.

Cheers.

Nothing wrong with government hospitals,in fact many doctors working in private hospitals also work in the government hospitals on a shift basis or on call for anything very serious. My neighbour is a surgeon and does this.

[meatboy]

12 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

If you died due to them not doing the scans we would have read about it here in the news and 50% or more of the TV members would have condemned them. Pay your bills, you knew the risks before the accident and didn't take out insurance (you where even warned - the first accident). If you can't afford insurance then it maybe better to return home as you will have more problems in future as you get older.

cant agree more,being on the roads in thailand is bad enough,but on a cycle you got to be crazy,if you have no means of paying in case of an accident.i always carry an id.card stating in case of an accident take me to my chosen hospital.

so dont blame anybody BUT YOURSELF.