Feeding stray dogs, what is the point ?

[Rimmer]

A spelling police post has been removed also a baiting post

[wildewillie89]

8 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

As predicted if you read the posts after i first posted this, things have progressed as expected from the other dog hating posters to a stalking post to a grammer police post to even miss quoting me to turn the post into his reteric. Obviously  they see this as normal behaviour i detest this form of trying to bully someone. So i will make my exit in the knowledge I was totally correct on my above post. So post away with youre bile.

To be fair, some of the things you say are a bit difficult to comprehend due to the way you write. One example was 'feee service'. Was it meant to say 'free' or 'fee'. Complete opposites. What 'dog hating' is going on? Just because people choose not to feed feral dogs? And what about the garbage you write, when you laughed at comments about either people contracting diseases or getting dogs blood tested.

If you want I can invite you to discuss your proposals to a regional head and a sub-district head of environmental health (Ministry of Public Health). The department that would be implementing any policies regarding dogs. Maybe we can get some of your ideas up and running if it makes you feel less bullied :).

[humbug]

On 5 มิถุนายน 2560 at 11:04 AM, wildewillie89 said:

By definition surely if stray dogs breed then the pups become feral dogs,  isn't the animal then becoming reliant on you? Probably the reason some dogs are more fearful than others. Some have been abandoned, so are strays (less fearful), others have gone through generations of not having homes so are feral (more fearful). 

Isn't this the very reason why government departments tell you not to feed animals in places like national parks etc. If the animal becomes reliant, they lose the knowledge/will to find their own food. Not to mention, if they have reached 'feral' status, there is more potential for fear aggression and attack? Why governments tell you not to go near or touch dogs in Thailand.

Being 'humane' and being an unintentional disservice to the dog is a very fine line that I think many don't understand. .

being humane means that we respect all living creatures on this planet. Wild life is completely different to being protected to that of pets being abandoned and becoming ferile in their environment. You should know this as life has changed into euthanizing everything to trying to respect everything.

 

If a living species on this planet is starving or need of help the more civilized way is to help this doesnt need a discussion it just needs action and balls by all those who walk past a species in trouble.

 

Just this last week monkeys being electrocuted were seen by passers by and those thai people contacted wfft who came and rescued those monkeys. If species are too dificult to help there are plenty of organisations who can help in a humane way even in Thailand and especially the west.

[mogandave]

So you see no problem with things such as rabies (which had a big outbreak this year)? You don't care if others die, as long as the issue doesn't bother you?

Could't have been a more selfish response if you tried, just to get out of giving a reasonable solution ...also no one hates the dogs in this thread, they dislike the people that put the dogs in the situation and have left them with not many options.

What about the thousands of people who are bothered by them (due to people feeding them), if you can focus on people (locals mostly) other than yourself just for a second. People who cannot even take their children or dogs for a walk without being harassed. I have been bitten by a dog, my dog also has been bitten by a couple of dogs on walks (whilst young). My young cousins have been bitten, it is hard to find a Thai person who hasn't been bitten actually. The reason why, what is it, 80% of rabies victims are children - as children like to play outside and don't report if bitten. 

One of the dogs that took a chunk out of me has bitten so many people it was put in a sack and dumped in another village...(I had no control over it, the community was just sick and tired of it biting people). I have also been diagnosed with Rickettsia (tick disease from dogs), as have various other members of the community. Tick diseases are not uncommon like people think, up to 24% of dogs that drift into villages (usually for food) have it. Yes, if people spend most of their time in their land, or in a car, they will have no experiences with dogs. But that is a pretty restrictive lifestyle. I wonder why you even bothered on the thread if, one, do not care about the problem, and two, cannot offer any sort of input. 

I'm just saying all the issues you apparently suffer daily never happens to me, or to anyone I know.

Hey, why not post a pick of the "chunk" the dog took out of you?

To be clear, if there were a vicious stray dog on my street biting people and snarling at my wife and kid I would kill it myself, I would not waste time whining on the internet about people feeding them.

You know dogs can sense when you are frightened. Why not try staring them down or kicking them instead of always running away when they chase you?

[oldhippy]

11 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

 

 

 

"Live and let live"

I don't care much about stray dogs, I don't want to feed them, I would rather they weren't there, but I don't want to kill them, nor do I want to interfere with people that do want to feed them.

The dogs don't bother me. They don't chase me, they don't snarl at me and they don't bite me. I do not have a problem with the dogs, so see no need for a solution.

Hey, maybe the dogs can sense which individuals hate and want to kill them and those are the people they chase and bite.

 

 

Hey, maybe the dogs can sense which individuals hate and want to kill them and those are the people they chase and bite.

Wow.

That observation is only a small step for you of course, but what a leap for modern science!

And surely the same is true for mosquitos. Will this be the end of the mosquito repellents industry?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

I am  amazed  at the rising  vitriol  this  topic is  creating.

But then again  I guess  it  could  be  expected.

I would  hope  that  few  are  dog haters regardless of views  about  stray  dogs.

I would  also  hope  that the  general concensus  is that prolific  stray dogs  are a problem  in  many  ways.

I  have  seen  opinion  that  they  have  a  right to exist . It is  not easy  to find  argument   against that  other than from the  health and  safety  issues  for  people with  some  realistic  exceptions.. 

Even if  accepting that that  is probably the  main  concern of  people and  very  valid  even if expressed  by people  who are  responsible  dog   owners there  is a  more  compassionate  view  on behalf  of  stray dogs.

Many,if  not  most,  are  starving, unhealthy and  victim  to  horrific  injury  due  to  territorial or  mating  disputes as well as the  almost  inevitable eventual death from vehicle  impacts.

Is  that the   right  people  should  and  do   subscribe  to them? Or is  it  an inhumane  excuse for  the origins  of these  dogs  by  dumping and  rejecting  them as  puppies  or  defectives?

My  personal opinion  is  that  there  should  be a  humane  cull of  stray  dogs to  slow/end the  proliferation  of   misery . backed  up  by  proper  registration  of  "owned" dogs. 

That  may  seem to lack  compassion at all.

And  I  am writing this with  an injured  stray  puppy  curled  up  on my feet  that  my wife  and  I are  attempting  to treat an infected  wound  caused  by  another  mature  stray  dog. 

We  can only  hope  that if when  healthy  someone  will  adopt  it.

Contradictory?

Yes. But  no.

We  have   dog  already. And  no domestic capacity   for  another

Under  current  law  we  have  no  right  to  euthenize  it. It  is  also illegal  to  dump it  at  a  local  Temple.

Catch  22.

But  it  would  be  better  if  it  or  its  five other brothers  had never been born at all.

 

 

[wildewillie89]

5 minutes ago, humbug said:

being humane means that we respect all living creatures on this planet. Wild life is completely different to being protected to that of pets being abandoned and becoming ferile in their environment. You should know this as life has changed into euthanizing everything to trying to respect everything.

 

If a living species on this planet is starving or need of help the more civilized way is to help this doesnt need a discussion it just needs action and balls by all those who walk past a species in trouble.

 

Just this last week monkeys being electrocuted were seen by passers by and those thai people contacted wfft who came and rescued those monkeys. If species are too dificult to help there are plenty of organisations who can help in a humane way even in Thailand and especially the west.

That is all well and good until the species that is in need of help is carrying life threatening diseases (as is the case in Thailand/dogs). Environmental departments have laws for these very reasons in more developed countries, and generally they are there to protect other living species also (especially native). It is why you cannot feed stray/feral animals. It is one of the reasons some countries have gotten rid of such diseases (as they have feral populations under control). There comes a time where to be humane to one living creature, you must be inhumane to another. 

Simple example of this is probably the food these people are feeding the dogs. What is it? Another creature that has been inhumanely killed. I think it is not as black and white as you think. I wish it was. 

I know of no organisations in my area or surrounding areas that I can call upon to help. Usually they are in the touristy areas as they are the only places that can get volunteers. 

I will not, however, put my family at risk of rabies, rickettsia, babesia, etc, just as  you think it is the humane/ballsy thing to do.  I see it as bringing further diseased, low quality of life animals (puppies) into the world. I think it more humane not to bring them into the world. 

[wildewillie89]

12 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I'm just saying all the issues you apparently suffer daily never happens to me, or to anyone I know.

Hey, why not post a pick of the "chunk" the dog took out of you?

To be clear, if there were a vicious stray dog on my street biting people and snarling at my wife and kid I would kill it myself, I would not waste time whining on the internet about people feeding them.

You know dogs can sense when you are frightened. Why not try staring them down or kicking them instead of always running away when they chase you?
 

 

Didn't the comment say what happened to the dog?

Also you clearly haven't read the numerous posts about Thai dogs. Walk directly at the dog and it will be scared away (due to the poor socialisation it had in its first 3 months of life), however, as soon as you turn your back it will fear bite, and instantly run away. So unless I have eyes at the back of my head....

But you are whining on the internet, even when nothing has happened to you....

Edited June 6, 2017 by wildewillie89

[oldhippy]

Only vegetarians should claim that dogs have a right to live.

Non vegetarians that say so are hypocrites.

I respect vegetarians.

I do not respect hypocrites.

 

[humbug]

12 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

That is all well and good until the species that is in need of help is carrying life threatening diseases (as is the case in Thailand/dogs). Environmental departments have laws for these very reasons in more developed countries, and generally they are there to protect other living species also (especially native). It is why you cannot feed stray/feral animals. It is one of the reasons some countries have gotten rid of such diseases (as they have feral populations under control). There comes a time where to be humane to one living creature, you must be inhumane to another. 

Simple example of this is probably the food these people are feeding the dogs. What is it? Another creature that has been inhumanely killed. I think it is not as black and white as you think. I wish it was. 

I know of no organisations in my area or surrounding areas that I can call upon to help. Usually they are in the touristy areas as they are the only places that can get volunteers. 

I will not, however, put my family at risk of rabies, rickettsia, babesia, etc, just as  you think it is the humane/ballsy thing to do.  I see it as bringing further diseased, low quality of life animals (puppies) into the world. I think it more humane not to bring them into the world. 

its ignorant not to help and if you think about diseases these were created by humans. Really you clearly have no balls to protect species on this planet just create scare tactics and forget about the drunk villages causing 99% of the mayhem in your area but lets just be ignorant and blame the starving species.

 

Theres always a way to help anyone or any species there is no excuse just ignorance

[mogandave]

Didn't the comment say what happened to the dog?

Also you clearly haven't read the numerous posts about Thai dogs. Walk directly at the dog and it will be scared away (due to the poor socialisation it had in its first 3 months of life), however, as soon as you turn your back it will fear bite, and instantly run away. So unless I have eyes at the back of my head....

But you are whining on the internet, even when nothing has happened to you....

Why not post it a pic of the chunk that dog took out of you?

[wildewillie89]

27 minutes ago, humbug said:

its ignorant not to help and if you think about diseases these were created by humans. Really you clearly have no balls to protect species on this planet just create scare tactics and forget about the drunk villages causing 99% of the mayhem in your area but lets just be ignorant and blame the starving species.

 

Theres always a way to help anyone or any species there is no excuse just ignorance

When did I ever blame the dogs for the situation they are in? I have actually posted numerous times that it is incredibly unfortunate that the dogs are in a tough situation and that most people on here are not 'dog haters', but are haters of the humans who put the dogs in the situation they are in. 

Clearly you and I have different opinions on ballsy. I used to volunteer with Sea Shepherd protesting and I also was part of Maremma Sheepdog rescue back home, as I saw those things as a worthy cause. However, what I do not consider ballsy is dying of rabies. I just went through 2 months of complications with a tick disease that would certainly kill my daughter at the age she is. Now we go through many precautions to make sure she and our family is safe. Why would i want to bring in animals that will have such risks to my family?

I have also campaigned to change the rabies vaccination given to any dogs the officials can find in Thailand to every 3 years instead of every 1 year to protect more dogs, lessen side effects to the dogs, and protect people. The research i put forward was read out at the Thailand rabies conference and discussed. So don't give me this ballsy bullshit argument because you know your argument is fundamentally flawed. But yeah, feel all warm and fuzzy, whilst other dogs, children are dying of disease (rabies deaths are 80% children). Or many of the Malaria cases that Mahidol University believe are actually Babesia.

I would be interested to know what you have done? Fed the odd dog? Further creating more problems. Why don't you tackle government departments? Have you? Please tell me which departments. Where? What was the response you got? That is sometimes more ballsy, especially in Thailand :). Generally it is unwise to play the macho card as your main argument lol. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Why not post it a pic of the chunk that dog took out of you?

 

Why would you need a photo? Do you have some sort of weird fetish to human flesh? I may still have my rabies booklet if that is enough to get you off...

[mogandave]

Only vegetarians should claim that dogs have a right to live.
Non vegetarians that say so are hypocrites.
I respect vegetarians.
I do not respect hypocrites.
 

Nothing has a right to live.

Don't vegetarians kill vegetables?

[oldhippy]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

 

Nothing has a right to live.

Don't vegetarians kill vegetables?
 

 

nonsense post

 

[mogandave]

Why would you need a photo? Do you have some sort of weird fetish to human flesh? I may still have my rabies booklet if that is enough to get you off...

You right wingers crack me up.

[mogandave]

Only vegetarians should claim that dogs have a right to live.
Non vegetarians that say so are hypocrites.
I respect vegetarians.
I do not respect hypocrites.
 

Nonsense post

[Gary A]

I was amused that some have problems with the dogs being castrated. The only problem I see with that is the job is only half done. Just one dog that dodges the knife can impregnate a lot of bitches with little competition. 

[wildewillie89]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

You right wingers crack me up.

 

I would have thought volunteering for animal/human rights groups was more left wing. But if also having the ability to look at all variables of an issue and accepting that some things need to happen to benefit future populations is right wing, then so be it. 

[mogandave]

I was amused that some have problems with the dogs being castrated. The only problem I see with that is the job is only half done. Just one dog that dodges the knife can impregnate a lot of bitches with little competition. 

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to just kill them?

[Gary A]

Yes it would. A bullet in the head would be more merciful that seeing a bitch starving to death trying to nurse eight puppies.

[mogandave]

I would have thought volunteering for animal/human rights groups was more left wing. But if also having the ability to look at all variables of an issue and accepting that some things need to happen to benefit future populations is right wing, then so be it. 

So be it

[mogandave]

Yes it would. A bullet in the head would be more merciful that seeing a bitch starving to death trying to nurse eight puppies.

Or we could just castrate the people feeding them.

[humbug]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

When did I ever blame the dogs for the situation they are in? I have actually posted numerous times that it is incredibly unfortunate that the dogs are in a tough situation and that most people on here are not 'dog haters', but are haters of the humans who put the dogs in the situation they are in. 

Clearly you and I have different opinions on ballsy. I used to volunteer with Sea Shepherd protesting and I also was part of Maremma Sheepdog rescue back home, as I saw those things as a worthy cause. However, what I do not consider ballsy is dying of rabies. I just went through 2 months of complications with a tick disease that would certainly kill my daughter at the age she is. Now we go through many precautions to make sure she and our family is safe. Why would i want to bring in animals that will have such risks to my family?

I have also campaigned to change the rabies vaccination given to any dogs the officials can find in Thailand to every 3 years instead of every 1 year to protect more dogs, lessen side effects to the dogs, and protect people. The research i put forward was read out at the Thailand rabies conference and discussed. So don't give me this ballsy bullshit argument because you know your argument is fundamentally flawed. But yeah, feel all warm and fuzzy, whilst other dogs, children are dying of disease (rabies deaths are 80% children). Or many of the Malaria cases that Mahidol University believe are actually Babesia.

I would be interested to know what you have done? Fed the odd dog? Further creating more problems. Why don't you tackle government departments? Have you? Please tell me which departments. Where? What was the response you got? That is sometimes more ballsy, especially in Thailand :). Generally it is unwise to play the macho card as your main argument lol. 

well wild willie which pet hospital did you use for blood tests to find out all these stray animals had rabies????

 

Or maybe you are just talking out of your rear end harking back to days when wild willie was shooti g protected species in idaho or wyoming?

 

In earlier texts on this thread i quite happily told of what i do but why have you infultrated this thread with your ignorant views?

 

do you think its okay that many thai drunk thai men destroy the fabric of villages with their incest and violent ways or just myopic and think about starving animals dont deserve to live?

 

anyway i will keep helping when you havnt got the balls to help

[kannot]

6 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

As predicted if you read the posts after i first posted this, things have progressed as expected from the other dog hating posters to a stalking post to a grammer police post to even miss quoting me to turn the post into his reteric. Obviously  they see this as normal behaviour i detest this form of trying to bully someone. So i will make my exit in the knowledge I was totally correct on my above post. So post away with youre bile.

can dish it  out  but cant take it eh

[kannot]

5 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I am  amazed  at the rising  vitriol  this  topic is  creating.

But then again  I guess  it  could  be  expected.

I would  hope  that  few  are  dog haters regardless of views  about  stray  dogs.

I would  also  hope  that the  general concensus  is that prolific  stray dogs  are a problem  in  many  ways.

I  have  seen  opinion  that  they  have  a  right to exist . It is  not easy  to find  argument   against that  other than from the  health and  safety  issues  for  people with  some  realistic  exceptions.. 

Even if  accepting that that  is probably the  main  concern of  people and  very  valid  even if expressed  by people  who are  responsible  dog   owners there  is a  more  compassionate  view  on behalf  of  stray dogs.

Many,if  not  most,  are  starving, unhealthy and  victim  to  horrific  injury  due  to  territorial or  mating  disputes as well as the  almost  inevitable eventual death from vehicle  impacts.

Is  that the   right  people  should  and  do   subscribe  to them? Or is  it  an inhumane  excuse for  the origins  of these  dogs  by  dumping and  rejecting  them as  puppies  or  defectives?

My  personal opinion  is  that  there  should  be a  humane  cull of  stray  dogs to  slow/end the  proliferation  of   misery . backed  up  by  proper  registration  of  "owned" dogs. 

That  may  seem to lack  compassion at all.

And  I  am writing this with  an injured  stray  puppy  curled  up  on my feet  that  my wife  and  I are  attempting  to treat an infected  wound  caused  by  another  mature  stray  dog. 

We  can only  hope  that if when  healthy  someone  will  adopt  it.

Contradictory?

Yes. But  no.

We  have   dog  already. And  no domestic capacity   for  another

Under  current  law  we  have  no  right  to  euthenize  it. It  is  also illegal  to  dump it  at  a  local  Temple.

Catch  22.

But  it  would  be  better  if  it  or  its  five other brothers  had never been born at all.

 

 

The temple s will take them all round here, Ive dumped them there a  few  times as people dump them on my doorstep

[kannot]

5 hours ago, humbug said:

well wild willie which pet hospital did you use for blood tests to find out all these stray animals had rabies????

 

Or maybe you are just talking out of your rear end harking back to days when wild willie was shooti g protected species in idaho or wyoming?

 

In earlier texts on this thread i quite happily told of what i do but why have you infultrated this thread with your ignorant views?

 

do you think its okay that many thai drunk thai men destroy the fabric of villages with their incest and violent ways or just myopic and think about starving animals dont deserve to live?

 

anyway i will keep helping when you havnt got the balls to help

What the hell have Thai drunk men and incest got to do with any of this?

[wildewillie89]

10 hours ago, humbug said:

well wild willie which pet hospital did you use for blood tests to find out all these stray animals had rabies????

 

Or maybe you are just talking out of your rear end harking back to days when wild willie was shooti g protected species in idaho or wyoming?

 

In earlier texts on this thread i quite happily told of what i do but why have you infultrated this thread with your ignorant views?

 

do you think its okay that many thai drunk thai men destroy the fabric of villages with their incest and violent ways or just myopic and think about starving animals dont deserve to live?

 

anyway i will keep helping when you havnt got the balls to help

My wife is a Director of Public Health so is well aware of the current rabies situation in Thailand. She has been fighting also to change the vaccination system for a while now since reading the research from Dr.Schultz (research the World Small Animal Veterinary Association use to set their recommendations), but also experiencing our own dog and the joy they can bring if looked after properly. She records every single dog that is vaccinated in our community (home, stray, feral, any dog they can catch) to help determine if a dog bites someone, what the risks of rabies are. As i am sure most communities do to different levels. The government give free rabies vaccines to each village as the problem is so bad in Thailand. If it was a non-issue, like you seem to be implying, why does the government waste so much money handing out free vaccinations? In fact, they thought they had the issue under control for the first year this year so were going to save the money (only vaccinate strays), but then there was a big breakout so are continuing the program (all dogs). Not only are they continuing the program, they have also spent even more money training extra staff in each Tessaban about how to administer the vaccine. 

The reason the government, and the organisations you speak of for that matter, do not recommend going near feral dogs is due to risk of being bitten and therefore disease. No one cares or worries if they get bitten by a dog, it doesn't hurt, having the rabies vaccine injected into you probably hurts more and that's just a simple needle. What people worry about is, for the millionth time, diseases that are fatal and are in THAILAND! 

If a country like Australia, I could almost understand your thinking (still doesn't achieve an end result), there is no rabies, and not many tick diseases. I still would not invite feral animals to the community, but going up to one would not be such a problem if you get bitten. As long as you clean the wound. But this is not Australia, it is Thailand. 

Some stray organisations may ignorantly advise you to, but who are they? Generally tourists who have no understanding of the situation/and make no effort to work with the government like they claim they do..Currently also one of the private vets in our city is fighting with the government vet due to the under reporting of rabies (happens in every city). A bit like the under reporting of Melioidosis, the road toll, generally most things in the country. So the situation is actually a lot worse than what the official line is (which is pretty bad too, seeing as rabies is 100% fatal). 

Again, what are you doing to help? You are feeding the odd dog? Tell us again. Or are you doing something more? At least the things I tried to help with would help every dog in the country. If you are just feeding, then you are surely only 'helping' (if you seriously believe youre helping the greater problem) a tiny percentage of animals. Not very 'ballsy' if I can use your only argument lol. 

Feel free to  go and speak to you local Director of Public Health about why they have rabies programs in the city you live. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

4 hours ago, kannot said:

What the hell have Thai drunk men and incest got to do with any of this?

I think he realised that his 'balls' argument was not working so he had to pull something out of nothing...and that was the end result. Then he realised how ridiculous that was, so went back to his 'balls' argument. Have never seen the word 'balls' used so much. Massive insecurities about masculinity?

[jak2002003]

12 hours ago, humbug said:

its ignorant not to help and if you think about diseases these were created by humans.

You actually think humans created diseases to give to stray dogs?