School demanding 5% security deposit

[lemonjelly]

Can a school legally demand 5% of annual salary as a security deposit from a teacher, non refundable if said teacher is sacked or leaves before end of contract? To add to the hilarity, school demands payment before end of May, if that deadline is not met, the teacher will be fired anyway..... Lol. 

 

[puchooay]

Simple. Don't pay it. 

[Rhys]

.... odd, one school demanded an "assurance" of 15K to start the position... When asked for specific details of this "assurance" they answered ...with silence and some bogus BS oh it is required... checked with the other schools in the system, it was not...

 

..thus, informed them my services we longer available... Oddly, the contract was signed, then when preparation for further documentation and work permit and visa processing came up, they sprang this on me.   

 

...no way for a security deposit; you bolt a no no; leave a note first or go through the proper channels when you can.

 

Look for another gig...

[Madgee]

After giving my school over 3 years loyalty, never late once, no pay rises and more administrative duties put upon me as and when, they decided to include a few more clauses into the new contract for this academic year. One was a ฿1000 deduction every month refunded at the end of the contract, apparently to discourage a teacher walking out. Another was a 3 month notice period!

They were very surprised when I refused to sign and said bye bye!

[Loaded]

I've worked both sides of the fence. Schools have been burned so many times by 'winging it' 'teachers'  that I don't blame them for protecting themselves.

 

I'm sure there are many teachers here who feel that their schools owe them something because they turned up on time and didn't take too many sickies, but maybe it's the other stuff (no respect for their culture for example) that riles them.

 

I certainly agree that if you feel you have done a sterling job but your school rewards you with a worse package than the previous year, it's possible you haven't met their standards. It's then best for both sides that you move on.

[stubuzz]

Report them to the labour department.

[Loaded]

12 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

Report them to the labour department.

if they are breaking labor law

[tonray]

I just had similar experience, school called me asking me if I could come back as they are in a bind with 2 weeks to go and no teachers. I asked about salary, contact hours and hours on site. Salary the same, contact hours increased and want me to stay an extra half hour every day, insuring that I get stuck in the worst traffic on the way home daily. Can you guess my answer ?

 

 

[Scott]

I would be very careful of schools who start changing policies once a contract has been signed.   A number of schools will offer an end of contract bonus of some sort.   Sometimes this is actually a bonus, and sometimes it is not a bonus per se.   I know several schools will return the difference in the probation salary and the regular, agreed salary after probation, as a bonus, of sorts.   It is spelled out in the contract.  

 

The number of actual teaching hours should have a maximum and how that works out from year to year will vary depending on the number of classes and other factors.   If the school exceeds those contact hours, then the pay should be supplemented.   Some years, I had less hours, some years more, but I only occasionally exceeded the maximum and I was paid extra and it was with my agreement that I did them.  

 

I know schools who periodically raise the starting salary, but that doesn't include the existing teachers, who will get the annual increase only.   This causes some hard feelings, but the budget would be astronomical if it were added in.  

 

Schools do get burned by teachers, but it's also important for schools to remember that sometimes they have caused themselves to get burned by poor planning, poor policies and not treating teachers fairly.  

 

Extra duties are a part of teaching pretty much everywhere.   Children can't be left unattended and all kinds of things happen, from parents being detained at work, traffic etc..   I was recently talking to a teacher from a western country and she has to stay at the school until the last child leaves.   She also has to work some weekends for special events and has to schedule parent-teacher meetings in the evenings.  

 

[RayD]

13 hours ago, tonray said:

I just had similar experience, school called me asking me if I could come back as they are in a bind with 2 weeks to go and no teachers. I asked about salary, contact hours and hours on site. Salary the same, contact hours increased and want me to stay an extra half hour every day, insuring that I get stuck in the worst traffic on the way home daily. Can you guess my answer ?

 

 

Same thing just happened to me! We can't find any mugs to work in the middle of nowhere for peanuts, would you like to come back on a crap deal? Gosh, let me think.

 

[thailand49]

This is Thailand, you can't teach stupid? or can you?

[steven100]

I can see that the schools want something in place to ensure stability for term required.   As noticed in many posts there may be a lack of commitment by some and many are not professional teachers anyway, I would say most.  I see many unskilled and unprofessional teachers when passing bars every afternoon. However, the school should be fair also ... it should equate to a win win situation and it also comes back to how bad you want the job.

[muzmurray]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

I can see that the schools want something in place to ensure stability for term required.   As noticed in many posts there may be a lack of commitment by some and many are not professional teachers anyway, I would say most.  I see many unskilled and unprofessional teachers when passing bars every afternoon. However, the school should be fair also ... it should equate to a win win situation and it also comes back to how bad you want the job.

 

So you can tell a person's occupation, skill set and how professional they are just by walking past them as they sit in a bar ?

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

I can see that the schools want something in place to ensure stability for term required.   As noticed in many posts there may be a lack of commitment by some and many are not professional teachers anyway, I would say most.  I see many unskilled and unprofessional teachers when passing bars every afternoon. However, the school should be fair also ... it should equate to a win win situation and it also comes back to how bad you want the job.

Cant see anybody getting anything past you

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, thailand49 said:

This is Thailand, you can't teach stupid? or can you?

No choice mate if you are a teacher

[tonray]

10 hours ago, RayD said:

Same thing just happened to me! We can't find any mugs to work in the middle of nowhere for peanuts, would you like to come back on a crap deal? Gosh, let me think.

 

The sad part is I will miss the kids, the same group that started with me as Mattayom 4, I had this past year as M-5 and I would have loved to see them graduate but such is life. I'm a sentimental old SOB at heart, some of the kids I wanted to throttle but some really grew on me in the past couple of years (he says wiping away a tear)...ok maybe it was just Bangkok grime in my eye but just the same !

[Colabamumbai]

This would not happen to a Thai teacher. There are lots of other teaching positions available.

[muzmurray]

26 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

This would not happen to a Thai teacher. There are lots of other teaching positions available.

 

Wow! You should inform the newly qualified Thai teachers of that, because they seem to think that there are nowhere near enough jobs available.

[simon43]

Although it's not a Thai school, the Myanmar school that I work for withholds 10% of my salary for 10 months, paid back in full in the 11th month.

 

I have no problems with this clause in my contract.  The boss of the school (they have about 20 branches throughout Myanmar) explained that he introduced this rule after an American female teacher left without giving notice, leaving the school struggling to replace her at short notice.

 

Since I started working at this school in January, they withheld 10% for only 2 months, and have now repaid it back to me, (the 10th month of the school year).  They will start withholding again from June 2017.

 

I see nothing wrong with this type of clause in an employment contract, (although repayment with interest would be nice).  

 

IMHO, the existence of this type of clause is really an indication of how unreliable some foreign teachers are, who leave mid-contract without working their notice period.

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

Although it's not a Thai school, the Myanmar school that I work for withholds 10% of my salary for 10 months, paid back in full in the 11th month.

 

I have no problems with this clause in my contract.  The boss of the school (they have about 20 branches throughout Myanmar) explained that he introduced this rule after an American female teacher left without giving notice, leaving the school struggling to replace her at short notice.

 

Since I started working at this school in January, they withheld 10% for only 2 months, and have now repaid it back to me, (the 10th month of the school year).  They will start withholding again from June 2017.

 

I see nothing wrong with this type of clause in an employment contract, (although repayment with interest would be nice).  

 

IMHO, the existence of this type of clause is really an indication of how unreliable some foreign teachers are, who leave mid-contract without working their notice period.

That's ok for  couple of years, but after that time they should trust you enough to do the right thing. 

[TerryLH]

"This would not happen to a Thai teacher."

 

More often than you apparently know.

I even know of a school that told their teachers they'd be fired if they took the test for government teaching positions.

[simon43]

That's ok for  couple of years, but after that time they should trust you enough to do the right thing. 

 

I agree with you that withholding part of your salary shouldn't be necessary for a trusted, long-employed teacher.  But I don't agree with your choice of phrase 'do the right thing'.  That suggests that they are 'doing the wrong thing' by withholding part of the salary.

 

Perhaps a school could make it more attractive by offering a slightly lower salary and a guaranteed '13th month' salary.

 

OTOH, I also understand that some school administrators cannot be trusted to return the withheld funds at the end of the school year.

[ozmeldo]

It's possibly legal if it's in the contract. If it's not, I can't see how it is.w I would never sign with a school that.tskes deductions for anything other than taxes.

 

Why blame teachers for this? This situation points directly to a horrible job and school. The school cannot retain even bad teachers so it resorts to extortion, literally.

 

Bad teachers stay on... forever. It's the good ones that don't put up with their employers nonsense be it a school, agency or both.

 

In really, really bad schools the institution cannot even retain bad teachers. That's when the institution resorts to hiring NNES. First South Africans, next Filipino's then the best of those bolt and the core of the English department implodes.

 

Employers continue to try and suppress wages, add hours and toy with contracts. The conditions become apparent after the year begins and grind ever onward thru the year.

 

Take control of your life. If you are a good teacher; responsible, caring, and dedicated to improving your craft. There is a school for you.

 

Salaries are already going in both directions. There are no longer average teachers here, just the ones that have no problem getting a job (47.5+) and those that are quite frankly, not up for it (37-). The schools and agencies have not come to the realization that a mediocre yet responsible teacher is 40k.

 

Yes, public schools pay horribly but if you can't squeeze more than 38k out if your school time to move on and/or self appraisal. Especially in Bangkok.

 

To this end they use deceit and gimmickry. Bonuses, carrots and sticks deposits. But in the end any school that takes a deposit (you'll never see) is somewhere you don't want to work.

 

Are you a good teacher? You have options.

 

I can see this happening, especially in agencies. A deposit is not taken but the teacher is paid a probationary salary which may be -2k less and is stolen, not paid at the end of the period or a larger amount which is allegedly returned (your situation OP).

 

There is no way if I were some poor slob making 30-5k that I would ever take a job that would take 10-15% of my salary to insure I would stick it out.

 

5% of your annual salary minimum? After a year, thats about a month's pay. This is even a question?

 

run

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by ozmeldo

[Rhys]

...you

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

It's possibly legal if it's in the contract. If it's not, I can't see how it is.w I would never sign with a school that.tskes deductions for anything other than taxes.

 

Why blame teachers for this? This situation points directly to a horrible job and school. The school cannot retain even bad teachers so it resorts to extortion, literally.

 

Bad teachers stay on... forever. It's the good ones that don't put up with their employers nonsense be it a school, agency or both.

 

In really, really bad schools the institution cannot even retain bad teachers. That's when the institution resorts to hiring NNES. First South Africans, next Filipino's then the best of those bolt and the core of the English department implodes.

 

Employers continue to try and suppress wages, add hours and toy with contracts. The conditions become apparent after the year begins and grind ever onward thru the year.

 

Take control of your life. If you are a good teacher; responsible, caring, and dedicated to improving your craft. There is a school for you.

 

Salaries are already going in both directions. There are no longer average teachers here, just the ones that have no problem getting a job (47.5+) and those that are quite frankly, not up for it (37-). The schools and agencies have not come to the realization that a mediocre yet responsible teacher is 40k.

 

Yes, public schools pay horribly but if you can't squeeze more than 38k out if your school time to move on and/or self appraisal. Especially in Bangkok.

 

To this end they use deceit and gimmickry. Bonuses, carrots and sticks deposits. But in the end any school that takes a deposit (you'll never see) is somewhere you don't want to work.

 

Are you a good teacher? You have options.

 

I can see this happening, especially in agencies. A deposit is not taken but the teacher is paid a probationary salary which may be -2k less and is stolen, not paid at the end of the period or a larger amount which is allegedly returned (your situation OP).

 

There is no way if I were some poor slob making 30-5k that I would ever take a job that would take 10-15% of my salary to insure I would stick it out.

 

5% of your annual salary minimum? After a year, thats about a month's pay. This is even a question?

 

run

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Word up... The good school and good teachers?  Actually, the appropriate school and appropriate teachers work better.     Good insights on the salary scales...however, in the end, you get what you pay for as far as teaching quality.  Personnel officers can be tricky and self-serving based on the directives of the ADM..

[oldlakey]

1 hour ago, Rhys said:

...you

 

  Word up... The good school and good teachers?  Actually, the appropriate school and appropriate teachers work better.     Good insights on the salary scales...however, in the end, you get what you pay for as far as teaching quality.  Personnel officers can be tricky and self-serving based on the directives of the ADM..

Actually Human Resources works better, much more up to date and modern so to speak

Normally shortened to HR Dept

[Rhys]

2 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Actually Human Resources works better, much more up to date and modern so to speak

Normally shortened to HR Dept

 

 

Agreed, but yet still under the ADM policies, whims, directives, and dictates..... however, the front line staff are pretty good, the adm folks... sadly follow...

[ozmeldo]

OP highly recommend NO ONE pays. Then the fun starts.

 

I did not realize but sounds like they want a one time cash deposit up front for the year?! Oh this is amazing :-)

 

Does your school year begin next week? Do keep us posted.