Somtam slowly killing many Thais, cancer center says

[jenifer d]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

Recently saw a food&travel show that showed a place around Chiang Mai where pig bile was served.  Even the (farang) host, who will eat anything, balked at that one. 

Not many places in the world where people eat raw or semi-cooked pig products deliberately, as a prepared dish.  Some people figured that one out thousands of years ago.

 

I've never gotten sick from som tam, I don't think so.  My guess it has something to do with the vinegar sanitizing the rest of the ingredients.

 

 

actually, on the Laos border, partying w/big police friend from Isan, some Laos boys came with some fresh jungle boar

and homemade lao-kao and some Lao beer; while we ate passion fruits and drank the (delicious) Lao beer

and wondrous lao-kao, the boys proceeded to make the most amazing larb i've ever had, bar none-

fresh moo pa mai sook (spicy minced raw jungle pig) 

one of the Lao boys explained in Lao (very close to Thai, identical if one is used to speaking to Isan friends)

 that there were no poisons or medicine (antibiotics) in it such as all commercially available meats contain...

 

som tam doesn't usually contain vinegar; as for the pla ra, it IS a well-known cause/source of liver flukes and worse;

one can say "mai ow pla ra" (don't want fermented raw fish) or "ow pla ra sook" (want fermented fish, cooked)

 

as for chilis, i have ALWAYS been one who is able to eat far spicier than anybody i've ever known;

one restaurant in SF where i worked in 1979, a coworker entered me (without asking) in a contest to determine who could eat the most

spicy jalapenos in 10 minutes- he knew that not only would i not object (i didn't) but that i would win (easily)

i believe that chilis speed things along through the bowels by irritating the cilia that line the  intestinal walls

[jenifer d]

28 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

I travelled and eat in all the countries from Turkey to Vietnam

I wonder if there is a coincidence with the love for "hot spiced food" with the need to hide rotting of the food because of hot climates. 

I guess if - in the past - Thai people had access to refrigerators they would not have developed the need to eat food so hot spiced that one does not taste anymore what it is.

nonsense- Thai people are cleaner in terms of not serving rotten food than 

virtually anybody in the west...

[phitsanulokjohn]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

My wife giving up somtam? Never!

She should do or she may end up with SOMTAMNICATIONfor the second time.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, seahorse said:

Nonsense. Chili helps prevent cancer.

 

Health benefits of chili

health benefits

Chili health benefits

Salt also has health benefits but I wouldn't add three teaspoonfuls of it to every dish that I eat.

Many things have health benefits but overdo them and they will cause you problems one way or another.

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

nonsense- Thai people are cleaner in terms of not serving rotten food than 

virtually anybody in the west...

Eat a lot of street food do you?

[thaidonnie]

hmm.....they did say the pa la...not the chili's or anything else people...i eat somtum and love it,,,i avoid the raw fish and the crabs.... it's delicious, and i eat tons of hot peppers, and it ain't doing me any harm...read and read again, get the facts straight please....so many farangs are experts... 

[carabaothai]

Only somtam? 

Nothing about crackers, fast food, energized drinks,.... All soft drinks.. 

Fried food with bad old oil. 

And lot of pesticides in the fields that somes are forbidden in Europe and very dangerous. ... 

 

I like thai food, village food, street food and eat every day. 

 

I worry more about this westerner bad new food and drinks than som tam

Edited May 5, 2017 by carabaothai

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

This doctor should really look at the big picture, what kill Thai people

now more than ever is the rich processed westernized food diet

they never partake  back in the old days in the villages and rural life....

That... and excess sugar, MSG, riding around in the back of pickups and jumping on the crotch rocket after a couple of bottles of lao khao.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, carabaothai said:

Only somtam? 

Nothing about crackers, fast food, energized drinks,.... All soft drinks.. 

Fried food with bad old oil. 

And lot of pesticides in the fields that somes are forbidden in Europe and very dangerous. ... 

 

I like thai food, village food, street food and eat every day. 

 

I worry more about this westerner bad new food and drinks than som tam

Yep, I have noticed the increase in fat kids in Thailand since the early 90's. For me all down to fast food outlets as far as I'm concerned.

Not sure it can ever be reversed.

[CGW]

23 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The grim little reaper gets us all in the end but we still live a lot longer than say even as recently as the 1950's

Do we live longer & is the quality of life better? life expectancy rates in western countries are actually declining, for sure they will get much worse! take away the drugs that so many people rely on to maintain there high quality lives and then they will really take off. The grim reaper will take us all one day, I would prefer it to be peacefully not screaming and crying in pain! But then I have always been a coward

[Frotting]

4 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

That's absolutely correct. But if you read the history of Thai cooking then you will learn that before chillies were introduced Thais would use ingredients such as fresh peppercorns and various roots like ginger to spice their food. Of course once the chilli arrived, everything would have changed and Thai cooking as we know it today would have evolved.


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Chillies introduced by the Portuguese in the 17th century by Alphonse d'Alberquerque/Vasco D'Gama and the traders.  They also introduced the cashew nut, coffee and many other things.  They also introduced the cannon, that the Portuguese mercenaries helped King Taksin to oust the Burmese from this country, without which I think it would be very different here today.  But ask a Thai this and he/she cannot tell you about it.  This part of their history is not taught in Thai schools, with good reason.  Imagine the loss of face when you know that you owe your country to a band of hairy faring mercenaries, manhandling their naval guns across the hills to Ayuttaya.  The Portuguese did however get a bit of land out of it and were able to build quite an impressive cathedral on the banks of the Chao Phraya; still there today near the Mandarin Oriental Hotel.

[JIMHILL]

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I would say the same caution to eating all forms of raw sea-water fishes even salmon. Singapore had an outbreak of Stretococcus infection last year with 2 fatalities. 

You wanna see what worms are in North sea cod !

[garyk]

LOVE somtam, but when i order it,  mai nam tan  , mai poo, chili sam,,,,,, aroy makkkkkk.

I eat it daily and will not give it up.

It is addicting...  

[soalbundy]

27 minutes ago, CGW said:

Do we live longer & is the quality of life better? life expectancy rates in western countries are actually declining, for sure they will get much worse! take away the drugs that so many people rely on to maintain there high quality lives and then they will really take off. The grim reaper will take us all one day, I would prefer it to be peacefully not screaming and crying in pain! But then I have always been a coward

you and me both. Yes we do live longer and are more active, i am nearly 70 and still climb on the roof if repairs are needed or cut down trees etc. One would be lucky in the 50's to live to your pension age, no pension pot shortages then and one was 'old' at 60, no world trips and skiing for that lot, it was down the pub or watch the telly although it seems due to lack of money these days it's only watch the telly.

[soalbundy]

29 minutes ago, JIMHILL said:

You wanna see what worms are in North sea cod !

I thought that the mercury would have killed them off,obviously not, oh well shiny worms.

[pentap]

This report, comes as no surprise to me, at all.

Chilli's are not indigenous to Thailand and can be very dangerous, if consumed, as they are here, in such huge amounts per meal.

It's a fact!

I've tried so many times to educate Thais, by asking them to 'CUT DOWN ON THE CHILLI', but my advise seems to go in one ear and out the other.

Thais seem to think that chilli's are just a Thai thing, which they are not, and that only Thais can eat them. How wrong they are !

Westerners can also eat spicy food too, but when a Thai sees a foreigner, especially from the West, eating spicy food, it's almost, a disbelieve on their part.

But what do I know? I'm just a foreigner!

Up to them!

[TKDfella]

6 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

I wouldn't think there would be iota of evidence, or, that there is any science at all to back this good doctors statements....with 60,000 people dying annually from cancer of varying forms, to blame somtam, seems a rather off the cuff statement.

Detection methods of determining disease has improved greatly as have treatments......maybe more people are taking advantage of the 30 baht scheme....whatever, there a host of reasons.

This maybe not quite true. My former Thai wife was (and still is) a Head of Ward Nurse at the local general hospital. They did their own research into Somtam and categorized people who ate this dish 1, 2 and 3 times a day. I was surprised, when she was doing some stats on it, at how how many Thais ate Somtam 3 times a day. In those that ate 2 or 3 times a day had a large peak in the graphs for stomach ailments while those who ate Somtam once a day or a couple of times a week didn't suffer much more than non-eaters.

[bmore99]

Scare tactic article

That raw and undercooked fresh water fish in Isaan may carry liver flukes is already known for decades and well studied by KKU. In sone villages up to 70% of the people have them.

The cure is also very simple:
Praziquantel
Albendazole
Available without prescription at any pharmacy 8n Thailand.

Besides avoiding raw or undercooked fish, my doctor adviced me to take this medicine every few years, just to be safe.


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[Terryter]

What about the cancer causing pesticides that are sprayed on the veg ingredients that are in the somtam???

[Eric Loh]

The 10B sushi that are sold everywhere is a ticking bacteria laden time bomb. 

[Notowork]

7 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

Well sweating is body's way of cooling down, and remember that most Thai people don't naturally sweat as much as us Farangs.
So there is a certain logo as to why hot countries such as Thailand have a spicy cuisine.


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I also read somewhere recently that eating hot spices and chillies actually kill bacteria in the food  ,...therefore making it possible to eat safely things that to westerners are a no no!

[CGW]

1 hour ago, pentap said:

This report, comes as no surprise to me, at all.

Chilli's are not indigenous to Thailand and can be very dangerous, if consumed, as they are here, in such huge amounts per meal.

It's a fact!
 

How many that have posted on here actually took the time to read and "digest" the article? Come on hands up????

It's not the chili that is bad, its the raw fermented fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That will save you the time rather than going back and actually reading the article..................

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. 

[SiSePuede419]

Riding on a motobike with no helmet is more dangerous than eating plaa raa...

 

"Somewhere between 1 percent and 5 percent of people infected with the parasites contract liver cancer."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/04/26/world/asia/26iht-thailand.html

[geisha]

Too much chillies are bad for you, and seeing the lack of hygiene here so is raw fish.

[SunsetT]

8 hours ago, jaltsc said:

"While he noted that causes of cancer vary, Thais’ love of “pla ra” or raw fish used in somtam, as well as other undercooked foods are responsible for increased rates of worm infections, which can lead to liver cancer."

 

At best, he is illustrating an association, but not a cause and effect scenario.  Considering all the other unhealthy habits and environmental conditions associated with Thai lifestyle (High sodium and Sugar intake, High consumption of reused oil, use of agricultural sprays which have been banned in western nations, tobacco use, lack of adequate exercise, etc.) I find it unrealistic to blame one isolated micro factor. Perhaps further scientific research might isolate the main causes. However, I doubt many can effectively argue that an immediate reduction in the consumption of of the foods containing the elements mentioned above, better regulation of agricultural products, more exercise, etc. would not benefit many Thais. Sometimes common sense is the first step, especially when there are minimal negative side effects associated with those changes in lifestyle. 

Also, if there is a correlation, I would think cancer numbers should be falling as the number of Thais  eating somtam with raw ingredients must be falling as there is a public awareness, in Isan at least, of the danger and most vendors now sell somtam with cooked ingredients not raw. My missus at least is aware and says this and only buys somtam made with cooked 'bala' and not  uncooked.

[gk10002000]

8 hours ago, overherebc said:

Never been a fan of thai food myself and never understood the reasoning behind eating food that has so much chilli in it. 

It always strikes me as strange that food should bring on a sweating session, red face and a need to drink litres of water to kill/cool off the burn. More like a competition than enjoyment. Locally I sometimes have TomYam Kung and ask them to bring the chilli in another side dish. Usually they bring 15 or so chillies in the dish for one bowl of soup.

Someone at the table will be happy to have them and add to their own bowl then sit there gasping, sweating and saying Aroi Aroi.

No way can that be good for your stomach lining or intestines over a lifetime.

My take on extreme spices is that in countries where the traditional food is simple such as rice, mexico, thai, china, etc.  to alleviate the boredom of the same bland taste day after day, over years, the cultures evolved into hot spices.

[SunsetT]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

My take on extreme spices is that in countries where the traditional food is simple such as rice, mexico, thai, china, etc.  to alleviate the boredom of the same bland taste day after day, over years, the cultures evolved into hot spices.

I thought chili  was used originally to mask the bad taste and smell of food going off in such hot tropical climates. Whatever, in those countries that do traditionally eat it, they seem to become addicted to it, like a drug, so that they cannot enjoy any food, or at least most of it,  unless it is spicy.

[cme]

8 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Reminds me of a friend at university back in the day.

 

After a night out we'd all head to a local curry place and order whatever. This guy had a thing about eating the hottest thing on the menu, didn't give a toss what it was so long as it was hot.

 

Mostly he'd get a vindaloo, but one evening after we been a rather long session he was a bit more belligerent than usual and started mouthing off that vindaloos weren't that hot and we were all pussies-or words to that effect. The staff [I'm guessing] took offence at this and told him there was an especially hot curry called a tindaloo, but was too hot for most people.

 

Man, he went off on a big one and started demanding he be given this. The staff eventually agreed and walked away with huge grins on their faces.

 

When the dish finally arrived, I swear it was curry sauce, mystery meat and more chillies than I've ever seen in my life. The thing glowed. You could feel the heat coming off it [well maybe that's just my imagination but that's how it felt]

 

My mate started eating it and immediately began sweating like a dog in heat. He was dripping and his whole face took on a bright red shine. He was clearly in pain but wouldn't admit it and ate the whole thing [well most of it]. Kept on claiming it was ok though.

 

The next day was hell for him and he spent most of the day in the toilet.

 

Funny thing is, he never went to that curry place again. I'd like to say he calmed down a bit on the hotter the better shtick, but he never did.

 

He was a bit of <deleted> if I'm honest though. 

I can remember when Indian restaurants first started opening up in the UK a Tindaloo was normally in the menu but now have not seen it for the past 15 years or so. My limit is a Madras so not a problem for me but I did ask a waiter once and he said UK people just couldn't manage it, so off the menu.

[AlfonsV]

8 hours ago, overherebc said:

See last post on chilli. It's an introduced plant to Thailand. Only a few hundred years if that long.

Seems like 16th century to India and a little bit later to other countries in the area.

Thus, Europeans! do not eat patatos, they are impoted from America. Dangerous!