How to plumb my pool

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Thaimike370 said:

Crossy, your comment is the correct way to do the pool plumbing.  My comment is based on working on swimming pools for forty years, all over the UK and Europe.

 

My return pipe from pump room to pool is 3" and on a ring main around the pool. Each return port tees off this.

 

So if I have 8 return ports I should have installed 8 individual pipes running from the pump room to each individual return port? My pump room is 45m from the pool, that's a lot of extra pipe joints and higher potential for leakage.

[grollies]

I think it safe to say every pool is different and everyone has their own design and build ideas.

 

All in all I'm pretty happy with the choices I made designing and building my pool.

 

Are these things I'd do differently? Sure, but hey I'm also sure most others would too.

 

 BTW my comments are based on 25 years as a cross-country and off-shore landfall water, oil and gas pipeline pre-commissioning specialist

 

 

GLA

[janclaes47]

12 minutes ago, grollies said:

My return pipe from pump room to pool is 3" and on a ring main around the pool. Each return port tees off this.

 

So if I have 8 return ports I should have installed 8 individual pipes running from the pump room to each individual return port? My pump room is 45m from the pool, that's a lot of extra pipe joints and higher potential for leakage.

 

They were talking about vacuum and feeding lines, not return lines

[grollies]

5 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

They were talking about vacuum and feeding lines, not return lines

Nope, re-read the above.

[carlyai]

After giving it a fair bit of thought and without having to drill holes in your wall this is probably the way to go assuming that we want to go for a 4 hour turnover.
 
Pool inlets 
5 Inlets using the existing  4 pipes through the wall plus convert your vac point to an inlet giving a  potential of 4m/3 per hour each. ( use skimmer for vac point)
http://pdb.astralpool.com/pdb/en/product/Multiflow_return_inlet_threated.html
You may consider some sort of water feature waterfall as this will aid the amount of water entering the pool
 
Pool outlets
3 skimmers this will give you  around  5m/3 per hour each . Also utilize  the deep end suction point but use a different grill ensuring that this pipe throttled back in the plant room .
http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/main-drains/1226-emaux-maindrain-12x12.html
 
This would be the best for you AS IT IS WIDER
http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/skimmers/1172-emaux-skimmer-em0040-rc-for-concrete-pool.html
 
At present you will need to bring the pipes back to the area adjacent to your plant room can be outside.
 
You will need to bring 5 no delivery pipes say to one side 2 INCH will be fine little oversized but will be fine
You will need to bring 4 no suction  pipes say to the other side 2 INCH will be fine
DO NOT BUNCH THEM TOGETHER AS YOU WILL HAVE TO TEE THEM IN A COMMON MANIFOLD. EACH (2 MANIFOLDS)
If you can clip them to the outside of the wall of the pool tank.
 
DO NOT USE THE RUNNY PIPE CEMENT TO JOIN THE PIPES IT IS NOT CHEMICAL RESISTANT THE FORUM SPONSOR I BELIEVE SUPPLIES THE CORRECT STUFF

Thanks very much.
A couple of questions:

1.where would you place the 3rd skimmer considering that the deep end is where the waterfall (for extra flow), will go. My other 2 skimmers are the big variety as well.

2. can you thread 2" 8.5 grade water pipe, or do I have to glue on a female thread pipe section to screw the new water inlet nozzles to?

3. They have those diamond cutting concrete and tiles hole saws. Would it be near impossible to drill 4 more inlet holes, or like with the skimmers, cut out 4 more 2" U sections, in the wall, down 20 cm for the new inlet pipes?

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[grollies]

2 hours ago, Naam said:

pardon my French but this is pure refined "deleted"! will Carl install a 10hp 3-phase pump and route 100% of the suction water through the bottom drain?

What has a 10hp 3-phase pump got to do with anything?

 

I'd like to see you sit on the suction end of a 2hp single phase pump and see your reaction. 

 

2 hours ago, Naam said:

 

the main drain in a pool has the function to suck/drain bottom dirt which "blown" by inground moving inlets towards the drain. of course the ignorants in Thailand have never heard about a system that is used in properly designed pools since three decades. unfortunately it was too late for me to import one (cost 600 US-Dollars which is a peanuts part of the total pool cost) when i was told "Thailand no habb!"

 

no vacuuming no nothing, pool floor always clean. the system is driven by the water flow, easy to install and maintenance free.

They look pretty neat, wish I'd seen them earlier. What debris do you get in an indoor pool?

[Naam]

18 minutes ago, grollies said:

They look pretty neat, wish I'd seen them earlier. What debris do you get in an indoor pool?

when i built my pool it was open to the garden on one side. two years later i enclosed it completely and installed airconditioning.

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

 

My main drain, in the floor at the lowest part of the pool, is 25 x25 cm and it is impossible to get stuck to it even if you would intentionally stand on top of it.

 

How do you expect to drain your pool without a main drain in the floor?

 

Using a submersible pump?

use sump pump to drain the last bit out if required

[Naam]

22 minutes ago, grollies said:

I'd like to see you sit on the suction end of a 2hp single phase pump and see your reaction. 

the bottom drain is normally at the deep end which (in all my pools) was between 2.00 and 2.20m deep. i'd like to see you sit on the suction end in 2 meters depth

 

plus the suction is never set at 100% because an outdoor pool has much more floating than sinking debris not to mention the special drain cover which in most countries is mandatory.

[Naam]

Just now, sappersrest said:

use sump pump to drain the last bit out if required

or use your pets to drink it summary: no bottom drain =

[sappersrest]

1.where would you place the 3rd skimmer considering that the deep end is where the waterfall (for extra flow), will go. My other 2 skimmers are the big variety as well.
 In-between the other skimmers
2. can you thread 2" 8.5 grade water pipe, or do I have to glue on a female thread pipe section to screw the new water inlet nozzles to?

Internally no . the eyeballs are multi faceted they should be able to take 1 1/2 pipe internally buy one and check it out.

3. They have those diamond cutting concrete and tiles hole saws. Would it be near impossible to drill 4 more inlet holes, or like with the skimmers, cut out 4 more 2" U sections, in the wall, down 20 cm for the new inlet pipes?

Don't bother you have enough flow it will only give you another headache.

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, grollies said:

My return pipe from pump room to pool is 3" and on a ring main around the pool. Each return port tees off this.

 

So if I have 8 return ports I should have installed 8 individual pipes running from the pump room to each individual return port? My pump room is 45m from the pool, that's a lot of extra pipe joints and higher potential for leakage.

I do agree the way you describe is defiantly the best if designed from scratch, also bearing in mind the original post stated he did not have a lot of luck getting it right first time.

Just reminded me of a fitter I used to work with his nickname was sockets, sure he used to buy reject tape measures.

[janclaes47]

14 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

use sump pump to drain the last bit out if required

 

I understand from the pictures that Carl has his main drain about half way the wall, may be I'm mistaken, but that would mean the last bit is half the pool.

[grollies]

5 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

I understand from the pictures that Carl has his main drain about half way the wall, may be I'm mistaken, but that would mean the last bit is half the pool.

Sump pump it is then.

[sappersrest]

VELOCITY m/s	1	1.5	2	2.5		Skim box
	M3/H	M3/H	M3/H	M3/H
1 INCH	1.8	2.7	3.5	4.5
1.5	5	6	8	10		4m/h
2	7	11	14	18
2.5	11	17	22	28
3	16	24	32	41
4	28	42	57	73
5	44	66	88	114
6	66	95	127	164
8	113	170	226	291
10	177	265	353	456
12	254	382	509	656

 

A useful crib sheet for flows through pvc pipe at certain velocities. accuracy not guaranteed, not to be used when designing nuclear reactors.

Edited May 10, 2017 by sappersrest

[grollies]

But Carl is still at scratch with his plumbing, all he has in are the return port pipes through the wall.

 

So he could put in a 3" header n'est pas?

[sappersrest]

Sorry can't give a real definite answer but  I would go for individual pipes  valved at one end for commissioning purpose teed into a 3 inch header.

As I said previously it is the best way considering the skill levels  involved no disrespect intended.

Yes a 3 inch ring is a good idea.  but only carl knows his capabilities on pipe fitting also this gives no leeway on commissioning i.e. cutting flow to one inlet to help get rid of dead spots.

Hindsight is a great thing and we know the original design needed working on, the solution I have given may not be perfect but i think it is probably in his best interest to follow that route.

the skimmers will have to go into a manifold separately as two of them  may well have to be throttled back to allow the vac to work on the third.

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

the bottom drain is normally at the deep end which (in all my pools) was between 2.00 and 2.20m deep. i'd like to see you sit on the suction end in 2 meters depth

So no-one ever drowned by getting stuck on a pool drain where only a single bottom drain existed? Interesting take on safety you got there, b**$**t, but interesting nonetheless. So why all the regulations about two common bottom drains at least 2m apart?

 

Quote

 

plus the suction is never set at 100% because an outdoor pool has much more floating than sinking debris not to mention the special drain cover which in most countries is mandatory.

Yep, as I stated above, usually 75% skimmers, 25% drains on suction.

[grollies]

On a more serious note, anyone want to comment on the use of 8.5 as opposed to 13.5 grade pipe?

 

As usual here things are arse about, UK SDR17 is a thinner wall than SDR11, so the lower the number the thicker wall the pipe. Thai pipe is the other way, the higher the grade number the thicker the pipe wall.

 

Also, any recommendations for Carl on pipe joint construction and pressure testing?

 

Oh, and Carl, please don't try to cut home made threads onto uPVC pipe, use threaded fittings.

 

Hey mate, it's a good job you asked your original question 

[sappersrest]

Warning disturbing reading

 

 

This is why we have two bottom sumps with curved grills  and low velocities on suction.

In my opinion all pool pumps should be fitted with an external emergency stop button.

Or a suitable anti vac device which cuts the electrical supply to the pump.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/prevent-pool-accidents-usher-son-article-

 

1.1421524http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?style=4&t=130598http://www.jems.com/articles/2007/07/pool-drain-eviscerates-6-year-

 

0.htmlhttp://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/parents-children-killed-pool-drain-accidents-outraged-federal/story?id=10241722

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/03/21/girl-whose-intestines-were-partially-sucked-out-by-swimming-pool-drain-dies.html

 

http://blog.poolcenter.com/article.aspx?articleid=6194

[sappersrest]

I would always advocate the thickest wall pipe especially underground.

[grollies]

21 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

Warning disturbing reading

 

 

This is why we have two bottom sumps with curved grills  and low velocities on suction.

In my opinion all pool pumps should be fitted with an external emergency stop button.

Or a suitable anti vac device which cuts the electrical supply to the pump.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/prevent-pool-accidents-usher-son-article-

 

1.1421524http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?style=4&t=130598http://www.jems.com/articles/2007/07/pool-drain-eviscerates-6-year-

 

0.htmlhttp://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/parents-children-killed-pool-drain-accidents-outraged-federal/story?id=10241722

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/03/21/girl-whose-intestines-were-partially-sucked-out-by-swimming-pool-drain-dies.html

 

http://blog.poolcenter.com/article.aspx?articleid=6194

Horrendous reading, but thanks for posting.

[Naam]

4 hours ago, grollies said:

So why all the regulations about two common bottom drains at least 2m apart?

that must be some of the British or Aussie rubbish analog to the electrical regulations which were concocted a century ago by a bunch of peasants who were used to oil lamps only. the crooked Oz electrical plugs (unsafe at any voltage) and their bumptious British counterparts speak volumes.

i hope Crossy is busy playing with Mrs. Crossy's kois and has no time to read my comment 

[carlyai]

Here it is...all finished [emoji14] Thanks to all, looks nice and clean, with good water flow.

The dolphins are happy jumping into the deep end.

 

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[carlyai]

I can get these fittings, but I don't know about 'slip fit' and my pool pipe has an ID of 53 mm. Will these do?

I will buy from the sponsor if they have them.

"Please see the link below to our largest eyeball return -

http://www.mrpoolman.com.au/p/Spare-Parts/Plumbing-Valves-Fittings/Accessories-Other/Waterco-Eyeball-Inlet-Return-50mm-Slip-Fit-Push-In/FEY650

The OUTSIDE diameter of the "slip fitting" at the rear of the return which slides into the pipe is 50mm/2inches."



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[grollies]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

Here it is...all finished Thanks to all, looks nice and clean, with good water flow.

The dolphins are happy jumping into the deep end.

 

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Where are your skimmers? 55555

[Crossy]

36 minutes ago, carlyai said:

The OUTSIDE diameter of the "slip fitting" at the rear of the return which slides into the pipe is 50mm/2inches."

 

I reckon they will do the job just fine. If they do turn out to be a bit loose (they likely won't) PVC tape is your friend.

 

What diameter is the hole in the eyeball jet?

[carlyai]

"I reckon they will do the job just fine. If they do turn out to be a bit loose (they likely won't) PVC tape is your friend."

Trouble for me is that when I measure the pipe, the ID = 53 mm and OD = 55 mm. [emoji26]



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[Crossy]

39 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Trouble for me is that when I measure the pipe, the ID = 53 mm and OD = 55 mm.

 

The back of the fitting has a springy-thingy intended to friction fit into a nominal 2" pipe. I'll lay odds that it's somewhat larger than 53mm in its relaxed state.

 

Even if it's a bit loose a few turns of PVC tape round the springy-thingy with tighten it up probably never to come out, ever.

 

Why not email the supplier and ask if they could measure one for you?

 

EDIT

OR

If you don't like the tape idea get a local machine shop to turn down some of the thick-walled 2" pipe so it will slip inside your thin wall pipe and then the springy-thingy will have a smaller hole to grip.

 

I've made up loads of custom PVC fittings over the years for situations where the standard ones are too long or won't fit, or are just not available.

 

EDIT2

OR

Cut a length of the thin-wall pipe a bit longer than the fitting and cut a 5mm slot along its length. You should then be able to spring it into the existing pipe (like a giant roll-pin). Similar result to above.

 

EDIT3

OR

Probably less preferred (i.e. the Thai method), a good splodge of chemical-resistant silicone would do the trick.

[grollies]

37 minutes ago, carlyai said:

"I reckon they will do the job just fine. If they do turn out to be a bit loose (they likely won't) PVC tape is your friend."

Trouble for me is that when I measure the pipe, the ID = 53 mm and OD = 55 mm.



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Something not right. 2" pipe should be 60mm OD and 8.5 grade have a Wall Thickness of 2.9mm therefore ID 53.2mm

 

http://www.thaipipe.com/products&services/upvcpipe.htm