Psychological torture of condo living Jomtien

[newnative]

The problem with these 'theme park' condos is you have a view choice of pool or parking lot.  Which do you want?  For me, neither.  I don't want a noisy pool to contend with and I don't want a dreary view of parked cars.  I think these 'theme park' condos are going to be a challenge to sell down the road.  Most are in less than ideal locations, each condo unit looks pretty much like the one next to it with little to set it apart, and few offer any views to speak of.   I wouldn't want to rent one of these and I wouldn't want to own one, either.  For many, renting is best and you can move if you have a situation like this.  For those who don't want to rent and prefer to own their own space, I suggest looking for something with seaview, on or close to the baht bus line, seaview, foreign name, in a building that looks like it is being maintained, seaview, and, if possible, look for a unit type in the building that there's not that many of.  Did I mention seaview?   While these 'theme park' condos might be hard to sell, there's still a market for highrise seaview condos in good locations.

[tazly]

5 hours ago, aussienam said:

I feel your pain there mate!

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Depends what he was playing......was it Mozart or Rachmaninov.....of course the revenge would be to set up a karaoke unit and blast out ac/dc all day night while impersonating Bon Scott........also promotes aussi culture at same time

[bazza73]

Despite all the advice on TV to rent, not buy, and the reasons thereto, still people insist on buying. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[walterego]

What an old Codger. Dont you remember the fun of playing in a pool as a kid?  The world does not revolve around your happiness.  live and let live. get an indoor spa.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

Despite all the advice on TV to rent, not buy, and the reasons thereto, still people insist on buying. Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

Our renters offer various reasons for their seeming difficulty in understanding buyers, but I suspect most of them simply boil down to not having enough money and hence sour grapes. They'll even try to convince owners that they must be unhappy 'cause the renters say so. Besides that, there's the ever-present hope that prices will finally fall so that they can comfortably buy. So for the last ten years or so we've had such hope expressed in the recurring CRASH! prediction threads full of bewilderment, foreboding, sour grapes, and scaremongering.

Edited May 13, 2017 by JSixpack

[Happy Grumpy]

Rent it out and then rent another condo, after you vet it. 

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

Despite all the advice on TV to rent, not buy, and the reasons thereto, still people insist on buying. Why is this so difficult to understand?

I bought, after 8 or so years here,. (Not Pattaya or anywhere near it!) 

 

Nice to have a base here that I own 100%, and it will be one of the things that I pass onto my kid. I rent it out at the moment and am getting a great return on it, not that that really matters.

[Bikeman93]

Just now, JSixpack said:

 

Our renters offer various reasons for their seeming difficulty in understanding buyers, but I suspect most of them simply boil down to not having enough money and hence sour grapes. They'll even try to convince owners that they must be unhappy 'cause the renters say so. Besides that, there's the ever-present hope that prices will finally fall so that they can comfortably buy. So for the last ten years or so we've had such hope expressed in the recurring CRASH! prediction threads full of bewilderment, foreboding, sour grapes, and scaremongering.

For something to crash it has to be moving first.

 

Just now, Happy Grumpy said:

I bought, after 8 or so years here,. (Not Pattaya or anywhere near it!) 

 

Nice to have a base here that I own 100%, and it will be one of the things that I pass onto my kid. I rent it out at the moment and am getting a great return on it, not that that really matters.

Have you checked the fine print?

Exit plans are usually overlooked, I find.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Bikeman93
Addition

[Bikeman93]

I suggest condo owners should stop reading this thread to prevent you from reading something which will (pardon my pun) alarm you.

[bangkokairportlink]

3 hours ago, jubkhun said:

I do find it slightly odd that people come to live in Pattaya/Jomtien and then complain about noise from bars..lol

Not the same thing as having noisy neighbours living in your condo building, slamming doors, shouting etc. etc.

I quite like to hear the buzz from the bars when I'm in my room.

 

Yes people are weird !

 

 

[bangkokairportlink]

2 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Despite all the advice on TV to rent, not buy, and the reasons thereto, still people insist on buying. Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

Because when you know what you are doing and have more money than enough, buying is a lot smarter choice.

 

 

[Bikeman93]

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html#19

 

But don't worry, your Thai wife will still love you.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Bikeman93

[bangkokairportlink]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

The problem with these 'theme park' condos is you have a view choice of pool or parking lot.  Which do you want?  For me, neither.  I don't want a noisy pool to contend with and I don't want a dreary view of parked cars.  I think these 'theme park' condos are going to be a challenge to sell down the road.  Most are in less than ideal locations, each condo unit looks pretty much like the one next to it with little to set it apart, and few offer any views to speak of.   I wouldn't want to rent one of these and I wouldn't want to own one, either.  For many, renting is best and you can move if you have a situation like this.  For those who don't want to rent and prefer to own their own space, I suggest looking for something with seaview, on or close to the baht bus line, seaview, foreign name, in a building that looks like it is being maintained, seaview, and, if possible, look for a unit type in the building that there's not that many of.  Did I mention seaview?   While these 'theme park' condos might be hard to sell, there's still a market for highrise seaview condos in good locations.

 

What are the condo park ?

 

 

[peergin]

“AH .... I'VE MADE IT TO PARADISE .........  CAN ANYONE HERE RELATE TO THIS ....?

Here I sit in my pool view condo bought off the plan three years ago, thinking that this would be the answer to my stressful living in Australia - to move here and live retirement bliss.”  

……………………………..........................................................................……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Yes, I can relate to that. Without any difficulty. My experience is quite similar.

My condo (purchased, not rented) is part of a Chiangmai development consisting of 2 buildings with perhaps 500 or 600 units. It was beautiful when the buildings were completed but things deteriorated steadily. The “manager” was a member of the staff of the company that built the project. He only showed up less than ½ day each month to collect the available money. Apart from that he never did anything. My guess is that the management fees brought in well over B 6,000,000 per year but the man never spent anything on repairs or maintenance. He did not even spend B 25 to replace a faulty bulb in a public area. He had the swimming pool water pumped out and the area locked up in order to avoid maintenance costs.

 

It got to be real bad and the money always disappeared. Finally, a number of frustrated owners got together and, with the consent of a majority of the other owners, engaged a lawyer in an attempt to kick the manager and the construction company out. That took a little while but the lawyer succeeded, meaning there must be legal means to achieve that.

A management committee, consisting of owners only, was formed and a new manager was appointed. Crucially, this new manager was/is employed by the owners association.

That was the best thing that ever happened because, clearly, every owner has a vested interest in his property.

 

Now the 2 buildings are beautiful and spotless once again. Everything that was out of order has been repaired. Everything that had disappeared (read: stolen) such as, for example, dozens of fire extinguishers, has been replaced. Vital, proper (but expensive) maintenance for the lifts has been restored!!! The swimming pool and the surrounding area are beautiful once more, The money (the annual maintenance fee paid by every owner) is properly accounted for and audited by an external auditor.

Also, the committee imposes a strict discipline. As a result, the place is clean and quiet. There are no noisy people or parties. Complaints or requests from owners are promptly dealt with and no longer ignored.

 

In short, that is the way it can be but only if the management is conducted by the owners themselves and not by the project’s original construction company. However, I believe that there are only very few condominium projects in Chiangmai where owners are running the show.

Finally, to the O.P.: it is possible to kick incompetent management out for ever. Clearly, the law allows for it. I would recommend that you get together with some other owners and consider going the same route. You will once again enjoy living in your own condo and its value will no doubt increase markedly. Good luck!

Edited May 13, 2017 by peergin
correction

[newnative]

6 minutes ago, bangkokairportlink said:

 

What are the condo park ?

 

 

Pattaya has a number of what I call 'theme park' condos.  Since most have no views and some are out of the way, they try to make up for it by doing a 'theme', like some amusement parks do--or Las Vegas hotels.  So we have these condo complexes with island themes, pirate themes, famous city themes, other famous places, and so on.  Most are 4 or 5 buildings of 8 stories with a big pool inside.  Not for me but they seem to be popular with vacationers.

[newnative]

15 minutes ago, peergin said:

“AH .... I'VE MADE IT TO PARADISE .........  CAN ANYONE HERE RELATE TO THIS ....?

Here I sit in my pool view condo bought off the plan three years ago, thinking that this would be the answer to my stressful living in Australia - to move here and live retirement bliss.”  

……………………………..........................................................................……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Yes, I can relate to that. Without any difficulty. My experience is quite similar.

My condo (purchased, not rented) is part of a Chiangmai development consisting of 2 buildings with perhaps 500 or 600 units. It was beautiful when the buildings were completed but things deteriorated steadily. The “manager” was a member of the staff of the company that built the project. He only showed up less than ½ day each month to collect the available money. Apart from that he never did anything. My guess is that the management fees brought in well over B 5,000,000 per year but the man never spent anything on repairs or maintenance. He did not even spend B 25 to replace a faulty bulb in a public area. He had the swimming pool water pumped out and the area locked up in order to avoid maintenance costs.

 

It got to be real bad and the money always disappeared. Finally, a number of frustrated owners got together and, with the consent of a majority of the other owners, engaged a lawyer in an attempt to kick the manager and the construction company out. That took a little while but the lawyer succeeded, meaning there must be legal means to achieve that.

A management committee, consisting of owners only, was formed and a new manager was appointed. Crucially, this new manager was/is employed by the owners association.

That was the best thing that ever happened because, clearly, every owner has a vested interest in his property.

 

Now the 2 buildings are beautiful and spotless once again. Everything that was out of order has been repaired. Everything that had disappeared (read: stolen) such as, for example, dozens of fire extinguishers, has been replaced. Vital, proper (but expensive) maintenance for the lifts has been restored!!! The swimming pool and the surrounding area are beautiful once more, The money (the annual maintenance fee paid by every owner) is properly accounted for and audited by an external auditor.

Also, the committee imposes a strict discipline. As a result, the place is clean and quiet. There are no noisy people or parties. Complaints or requests from owners are promptly dealt with and no longer ignored.

 

In short, that is the way it can be but only if the management is conducted by the owners themselves and not by the project’s original construction company. However, I believe that there are only very few condominium projects in Chiangmai where owners are running the show.

Finally, to the O.P.: it is possible to kick incompetent management out for ever. Clearly, the law allows for it. I would recommend that you get together with some other owners and consider going the same route. You will once again enjoy living in your own condo and its value will no doubt increase markedly. Good luck!

Nice to read a good outcome.  I think some big Bangkok public construction companies such as Lumpini  and Sansiri do a pretty good job of managing their condos.  When you're dealing with a small, private developer and, possibly, unsold units the developer controls, you can get a situation like you had with the developer calling all the shots.  Great the residents got organized and took control. 

[aussienam]

Nice to read a good outcome.  I think some big Bangkok public construction companies such as Lumpini  and Sansiri do a pretty good job of managing their condos.  When you're dealing with a small, private developer and, possibly, unsold units the developer controls, you can get a situation like you had with the developer calling all the shots.  Great the residents got organized and took control. 

Thanks for your story and the good tips. Yes management here have never got on top of the issues here. Passed on your experience to other concerned owners.

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[Bikeman93]

Just now, Bikeman93 said:

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html#19

 

But don't worry, your Thai wife will still love you.

And for those who are thinking of exiting https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condominium-transfer-tax-and-fees.html

 

That's 8.3-11.3% off the top, regardless of capital gains or cost involved in sale.

 

Anyone got a condo to sell? I got a bag of peanuts, they cant tax you on that.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Bikeman93
Addition

[Damrongsak]

14 hours ago, blazes said:

Get many snakes there?

Haven't heard of any, but who knows? There's bound to be some around there. Hopefully no stray Burmese Pythons in the swamp.  My wife hates snakes.

 

Years ago, an Australian volunteer at the Teacher's College a couple miles down the road found a cobra under his refrigerator one morning in the cold season.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Damrongsak

[Damrongsak]

20 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Forever is a long time. All sorts of things could happen on that land.

 

And of course you have the huge downside of needing a wife or some other Thai partner in order to "own" a house and land. A partner who could end up stealing your money and throwing you out, or worse, which has happened to untold thousands of farangs here. And all that just to end up in the back of beyond many miles from anywhere of interest. As someone who has no desire at all to live with anyone else, and who likes to have control of his own affairs, I see no real advantages in this, though I'm glad that you do.

That swamp is owned by some family in BKK.  They had no interest in selling her even a little bit extra behind our two houses. Maybe someday someone will find enough cheap fill dirt and build some department store or something.   Ouch.

 

I'm not too worried about my wife stealing anything.  After annoying her for the last 37 years, she deserves whatever she wants. She has the land and that house and about half-interest in a house on the outskirts of BKK, all paid for. And maybe 9 million Baht of her own money, not to mention what we own jointly.  Our tastes are not fancy.  That's why I drive a 19 year old Toyota pickup. She is proud of her wardrobe that she bought on sale, then resewed for pennies on the dollar.  Hell, she saved us a bunch of money by cutting my hair for 37 years. :)  We've lived alone together for so long, it's not a major problem.  If she dies, the property will probably stay with the family.  I can always mooch off her siblings and their offspring.  I've known them since they were little, and helped bring a number of them to the U.S.

 

Now the kicker: "... in the back of beyond many miles from anywhere of interest..."  You got it!  It is in suburban nowhere, about 1.5km from the market in Amphur Muang, Loei. The only exciting thing on the last couple visits was having one of my wife's old friends in town recognizing me when I walked around.  I could go to the market every day and visit friends/relatives selling vegetables or the like.  I managed to do OK for two years in the Peace Corps way back, even though I spoke little Thai and didn't know anyone.  I would only see a foreigner about once a month.  But that didn't bother me, but that's just me.

[dbrenn]

I'd advise the OP that there is light at the end of the tunnel. With only 40% of tenants paying maintenance, the management company will abandon the place. The swimming pool will then turn green and kids won't be able to play in it anymore. Problem solved. 

 

This happened at a very large condo resort on Pattanakan Road. Started off as a high end executive place. Finished as a slum with a green pool. 

[Happy Grumpy]

8 hours ago, Bikeman93 said:

Have you checked the fine print?

Exit plans are usually overlooked, I find.

Nope.

 

Gave all the money to a local motosai taxi rider and told him to take care of it as I was propped against a bar for the day. 

[shanesox]

I think you are going to be very unhappy wherever you live in thailand. If not the sounds of playing children or your deep hatred for the russians, you are giing to be offended by thai food smells or motorcycles or pollution or smoke haze or songkran or chinese tourists or thai immigration or ..... why put yourself under such severe stress? By the way, did you ever play with friends as a child?

Nothing wrong with dislike of Russians, they have the worst manners on the planet !


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[Henryford]

You didn't do your due diligence, and should never have bought off plan. Never buy a condo with a "theme park" pool. Never buy one facing the pool. Pretty obvious really.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Nothing wrong with dislike of Russians, they have the worst manners on the planet !


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I could say the same for the British.

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[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.  

 

[mfharrison]

Get yourself a few rai in isaan n you'll be grand

[bazza73]

10 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Our renters offer various reasons for their seeming difficulty in understanding buyers, but I suspect most of them simply boil down to not having enough money and hence sour grapes. They'll even try to convince owners that they must be unhappy 'cause the renters say so. Besides that, there's the ever-present hope that prices will finally fall so that they can comfortably buy. So for the last ten years or so we've had such hope expressed in the recurring CRASH! prediction threads full of bewilderment, foreboding, sour grapes, and scaremongering.

I'm just counting up the ways you can be wrong with this post.

Firstly, witnessing all the struggles owners have in reselling the units they have bought should be a salutary lesson to all would-be owners. Although "owners" is a misnomer with mandated 51% Thai control.

Second, at any time you can get an anti-social neighbour or set of circumstances which make your residence unbearable - as the OP has done. Much easier to extricate oneself if you are renting.

You may be right with some renters. You are dead wrong in my case. My landlord's agent has been pestering me to buy the condo I am renting for the past 6 years. He knows I have the funds readily available to buy it.

So why don't I buy? For the above reasons, obviously. And another two.

If I buy, I become a homeowner under Australian Centrelink rules. The part pension I get would be cut by 10,000 baht per fortnight. I pay 8500 baht a month to rent.

Why would I sacrifice 11,500 baht/month for some illusory ownership benefit? Why would I tie up capital in an illiquid asset, when I can make equivalent or better returns on investments which I can withdraw from at a time of my choosing?

Now,  think about what I have said.

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by bazza73
Addition

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I could say the same for the British.

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I'm British and I have to agree. The age of cheap air travel has opened up Thailand to lager louts.

[JSixpack]

35 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

I'm just counting up the ways you can be wrong with this post.

Firstly, witnessing all the struggles owners have in reselling the units they have bought should be a salutary lesson to all would-be owners. Although "owners" is a misnomer with mandated 51% Thai control.

Second, at any time you can get an anti-social neighbour or set of circumstances which make your residence unbearable - as the OP has done. Much easier to extricate oneself if you are renting.

You may be right with some renters. You are dead wrong in my case. My landlord's agent has been pestering me to buy the condo I am renting for the past 6 years. He knows I have the funds readily available to buy it.

So why don't I buy? For the above reasons, obviously. And another two.

If I buy, I become a homeowner under Australian Centrelink rules. The part pension I get would be cut by 10,000 baht per fortnight. I pay 8500 baht a month to rent.

Why would I sacrifice 11,500 baht/month for some illusory ownership benefit? Why would I tie up capital in an illiquid asset, when I can make equivalent or better returns on investments which I can withdraw from at a time of my choosing?

Now,  think about what I have said.

 

 

Sorry, but your post in no way proves anything wrong about my post but rather confirms it. You'll need to think more about why that's true. "Illusory benefits" is typical sour grapes from a renter. We've heard it all before, and it's been argued before, in all the renters' CONDO GLUT and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads over the last decade or so. A couple of typical fallacies in your post: Just In Case Fallacy and Complex Question Fallacy. The reasons for the OP's problem, and the solutions, are discussed here: 

 

 

BTW, nobody cares in the slightest why you don't buy.

 

Perspective in this thread comes from Suradit69:

 

On 5/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, Suradit69 said:

. . . for every story of "psychological torture" posted on TV there are undoubtedly thousands of people who are quite pleased with their condos or homes.

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by JSixpack