You be the Judge (Jury and Executioner)

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

It's irrelevant. Cyclists and Pedestrians are the same thing - they can't be wrong UNLESS you're on a highway.

It looked to me as though she was riding down the wrong side of a highway, and how is a pedestrian and a cyclist the same thing?

Edited May 22, 2017 by giddyup

[ben2talk]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's mentioned in the previous comments somewhere, suggest you look for it.  section 79-84 in thai highway code

Okay, looked for it and can't find anywhere to read it.... except 'ThaiLaws.com' where it says:

• Title 10
• Bicyles
• Section 79 - Section 84
• -

[ben2talk]

Just now, giddyup said:

It looked to me as though she was riding down the wrong side of a highway, and how is a pedesrtian and a cyclist the same thing?

Wherever traffic is controlled, the distinction is usually drawn between 'motor vehicles' which can use motorways - these are generally controlled at gated entrances to villages also - so that anything smaller than a motor car is not monitored or considered important. 

 

Only recently has 'Central' started to recognise a difference between 'powered bicycle' and 'motorcycle' by banning any bikes over 150cc - you'll find 300cc bikes now expected to pay 30 baht and be forced to park in 'superbike' slots.

 

There's a difference between law and perception. Police on the road often enforce 'perception' rather than law. Thai's regard motorcycles to be slow, unsafe vehicles like bicycles but not like pickup trucks.

 

You need to get confirmation from Crossly about the road outside his house. I do not believe that Highways have driveways opening on them... Remember that cyclists and pedestrians have no legal protection on the highway unless on a properly marked crossing.

[ben2talk]

26 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

my son was cycling on the pavement

So he was driving his car across the pavement which negates every defence except being stationary in the event of an accident.

 

There has been a fairly recent shift in the U.K. with regards to cycling on the pavement - and it makes more sense to me to classify 'cyclists' more as 'pedestrians with wheels' than vehicles.

 

This isn't quite the same as exiting a gateway onto the road.

 

Something you're unlikely to see in the U.K. where there is no buffer between the gate and the roadway - similarly in some roads I travel on the way to my boy's school, the road is too narrow to fit more than one car - they must straddle the drains to pass side by side. People extend the building of their houses to encompass every inch of private ground, and often a few inches more than that (assuming your property rights extend right up to the road edge, or at least the concrete utility poles...)

[Baerboxer]

35 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's mentioned in the previous comments somewhere, suggest you look for it.  section 79-84 in thai highway code

 

 

I did thanks. And you'll note the poster uses the word "probably" in assuming which sections refer to bicycles. Although they should have at least a front light.

 

However, that would and does not absolve the car driver from due care.

 

 

[giddyup]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

 

I did thanks. And you'll note the poster uses the word "probably" in assuming which sections refer to bicycles. Although they should have at least a front light.

 

However, that would and does not absolve the car driver from due care.

 

 

Wouldn't matter what laws were quoted, and that the cyclist disobeyed all of them, you'd still blame the driver. For me this subject has run it's course, the OP has handed it over to his insurance company, end of.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

So he was driving his car across the pavement which negates every defence except being stationary in the event of an accident.

 

There has been a fairly recent shift in the U.K. with regards to cycling on the pavement - and it makes more sense to me to classify 'cyclists' more as 'pedestrians with wheels' than vehicles.

 

This isn't quite the same as exiting a gateway onto the road.

 

Something you're unlikely to see in the U.K. where there is no buffer between the gate and the roadway - similarly in some roads I travel on the way to my boy's school, the road is too narrow to fit more than one car - they must straddle the drains to pass side by side. People extend the building of their houses to encompass every inch of private ground, and often a few inches more than that (assuming your property rights extend right up to the road edge, or at least the concrete utility poles...)

 

Interesting too, if you remember, safety organizations in the UK advise pedestrians to walk on the side of on coming traffic not having traffic approach them unseen from behind.  May explain why some cyclists do this.

 

Here, any farang driving knows that pedestrians, cyclists and motor cyclists all have the practice of riding / walking on the on coming side. Annoying as it is, it has to be dealt with by being extra careful. People who have been here also appreciate the lack of spatial and surroundings awareness, the "me first you must giveway" mentality and the complete lack of traffic law enforcement. 

 

I wouldn't want to hang my defense in a Thai court on someone not having a bike light or being on the wrong side of the road.

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Wouldn't matter what laws were quoted, and that the cyclist disobeyed all of them, you'd still blame the driver. For me this subject has run it's course, the OP has handed it over to his insurance company, end of.

 

Yes. Because for me it was his fault. Not careful enough, and experienced enough to expect the unexpected, especially here.

 

If you've been here a while you'll know most Thai laws are subject to quite wide interpretations. What are the Thai laws relating to driving with due care and attention and responsibility in an accident? Wouldn't rely on what the other party was doing as a defense.

[lucjoker]

13 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

She is smart to drive on the wrong side of the road? (and without light?)

 

When living in LoS it is perhaps adviceable to adjust to Thai custom, but to call it smart to drive on the wrong side of the road is overdoing it.

 

I never walk in the same direction of trafic,because i dont want to be hit by any drunk idiot in my back.i keep my eye on the trafic coming to me.if needed i can jump away in time.

This is done also in europe.

[giddyup]

Just now, lucjoker said:

I never walk in the same direction of trafic,because i dont want to be hit by any drunk idiot in my back.i keep my eye on the trafic coming to me.if needed i can jump away in time.

This is done also in europe.

She wasn't walking.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

I never walk in the same direction of trafic,because i dont want to be hit by any drunk idiot in my back.i keep my eye on the trafic coming to me.if needed i can jump away in time.

This is done also in europe.

 

same with me,

 

but I don't bike or ride on the wrong side of the road

 

[worgeordie]

Same thing happened to me once,pulling out just like that,

all i seen was a blue flash whizz in front me,old woman on a

motorbike ,kid on the back,coming wrong way on dual carriageway,

seconds from taking them out,i was shaking like a leaf,also wondered

if i would have been to blame,in the West definitely not,here ???.

 

 I would say not your fault,but the Police might say negligent in not

looking to your left,even when nothing should be coming that way,

your lucky it was not something more serious.

regards worgeordie

[Gary A]

I think it is possible for Thai people to ride a scooter or bicycle while sleeping. I would say that she was at fault. I also think you did the right thing offering to pay for any damage.

 

An old Thai lady on a scooter sideswiped my wife. There was damage to the car door and minor damage to the scooter. The insurance man said it was the fault of the scooter but the old lady had no insurance and no money. The insurance paid for the damage to the car. I doubt that the old lady even bothered to repair the minor damage to the scooter. My wife was happy that the insurance company did not go after the old lady.

[Goldieinkathu]

3 hours ago, Foozool said:

Well, I don't know about your accidents. 

My opinion was about op case particularly. Not other cases. 

"I don't know where you people live at, but Thai law supports poor people no matter they are at fault or not"

 

This was your statement, and as I said, it's simply not true.

[Slain]

I think Gene Vincent had something to do with it.   Seriously looks like both were a bit to blame as both were not being careful enough IMO.

[pgrahmm]

2 hours ago, lucjoker said:

I never walk in the same direction of trafic,because i dont want to be hit by any drunk idiot in my back.i keep my eye on the trafic coming to me.if needed i can jump away in time.

This is done also in europe.

And in the US....

[Slain]

Actually, if you were traveling any speed at all she would have been badly injured.  You weren't, so she was moving fairly fast in the wrong direction. Mostly her fault.

[Goldieinkathu]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Nope. Doesn't matter that she was, like a lot of cyclists and here motor cyclists, riding on the wrong side of the road. The car/truck driver must check before proceeding. Transam posted earlier the old " look left, right and left again before proceeding" mantra.

 

Had she been a pedestrian briskly walking then, based on the dashcam, I believe Mr. Crossy, would still have hit her. He doesn't appear to make a final left check before proceeding. 

 

The person who hits is responsible - must be observant, in full control, driving at suitable speed for conditions etc etc etc. 

 

Not always fair perhaps like when people pull out or cut across but the best you can hope for in such circumstances is a bit of mitigation. Police friends here tell me if a car/truck hits a bike, motor or pedal then the car/truck is always wrong. That's their mindset and hard to convince them otherwise.

"Police friends here tell me if a car/truck hits a bike, motor or pedal then the car/truck is always wrong. That's their mindset and hard to convince them otherwise".

Another poster perpetuating the myth 

 

 

[Goldieinkathu]

If this lady later dies from a blood clot caused by her injuries or anything else related to this accident I presume you would be later charged with manslaughter having admitted your guilt by virtue of your insurance pay out in the first place.

If an accident is not my fault then no policeman or other will convince me to claim on my insurance in order to help out a "poor person". Just my personal opinion for what it's worth .

 

 

 

[Foozool]

40 minutes ago, Goldieinkathu said:

"I don't know where you people live at, but Thai law supports poor people no matter they are at fault or not"

 

This was your statement, and as I said, it's simply not true.

My oppologies Mr 

very sorry for what I said .

Please forgive me. I will not say it again. 

I'm crying now. 

  

 

[ben2talk]

4 hours ago, lucjoker said:

I never walk in the same direction of trafic,because i dont want to be hit by any drunk idiot in my back.i keep my eye on the trafic coming to me.if needed i can jump away in time.

This is done also in europe.

Yes, but she's not doing it to be 'smart'. 

 

1 hour ago, Goldieinkathu said:

"Police friends here tell me if a car/truck hits a bike, motor or pedal then the car/truck is always wrong. That's their mindset and hard to convince them otherwise".

Another poster perpetuating the myth 

 

 

This is partly the 2 wheel bias I mentioned before. In the car I must stop when exiting and also entering my moo bahn, but on the bike I just go... no checks nobody cares.

[pgrahmm]

Weird thing is right after reading the OP I jumped on my bike for my daily ride.....

Almost got clipped twice by drivers at 90' turns that didn't clear the field of view first + almost got nailed by a motorcy that cut a corner to turn.....

I'd not had anything close like that on my evening rides before....

 

Crossy's (jinx) fault - or maybe the moon.....

[Phuketboy]

Well it's a difficult one.  The fact that she was ridding her bike on the wrong side of the road and not paying attention, I would say her fault.  However, forget the fact she was riding a bike (say she was walking), the fact that you didn't check, then it's your fault.  The fact that your insurance company said to take blame and they would pay for everything, I would go with that.  Sounds like a great solution and no out of pocket expenses to you.