Teacher hits back at parent who complained about child who got zero in maths test

[SiamBeast]

17 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Technically correct but giving a zero is demeaning, humiliating, discouraging, soul destroying. We don't know the full story or anything about the circumstances of the kid.

What we do know us that the best teachers are those that are able to motivate, encourage, inspire. Sadly the worst ones seem to take a perverse delight in the opposite.

I don't say "pass everyone regardless of scores" or suggest falsifying results; but leave the teachers with some discretion in order to offer encouragement. Yes, maybe it's " Goodbye, Mr Chips" view of education but I've seen it work ( second hand), particularly with shy kids and "late bloomers".

 

In that case, a more appropriate scenario would be to tell the student that "your copy is coming soon" when giving the other copies to the students; then seeing the student in private and explaining that he'll need to take additional classes to catch up. Explain to him what he does not understand, and offer him, probably, if you're REALLY jai-dee, a second test. However we can't simply give points out of pity, it's a bit like a "participation medal".

[elgordo38]

18 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Technically correct but giving a zero is demeaning, humiliating, discouraging, soul destroying. We don't know the full story or anything about the circumstances of the kid.

What we do know us that the best teachers are those that are able to motivate, encourage, inspire. Sadly the worst ones seem to take a perverse delight in the opposite.

I don't say "pass everyone regardless of scores" or suggest falsifying results; but leave the teachers with some discretion in order to offer encouragement. Yes, maybe it's " Goodbye, Mr Chips" view of education but I've seen it work ( second hand), particularly with shy kids and "late bloomers".

Let me go on record as saying I like your posts but this one has me sitting on the fence a bit leaning in your direction. Yes there are shy kids and late bloomers I was one of them. They need extra help. I guess if I keep typing long enough I will come around to your thinking. I am a hard sell. 

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, reenatinnakor said:

Is there a Thai language link for this story? I want to show the wife!

I have always complained my kids are dumb but still get high marks in the previous school. Now they are at a tougher school and failing everything! Thai education system is so messed up, rarely will you find a school that pushes the kids.

Just click the "Daily News" link at the bottom of the opening post.

[maewang99]

4 hours ago, manhood said:

Teachers should make a statistic of all pupils in their class and have all the notes they got: so it is clear also if something goes wrong with either the teacher or and the pupils....The statistic should be open for the pupils in the class and the parents if needed!

I don't know, typically at all the high schools and universities I've been at, they keep huge piles of all the tests and homework assignments in a room off to the side of the ajarn office... and if you were to go through them you would see test after test ... and project assignment after project assignment.... identically completed. not zerox copies, but hand written with pretty much exactly all the same "answers" and results. to get a zero... I can guess... a student didn't wai the ajarn or disrespected the ajarn in some manner. zero. I would bet on it. 

[Moti24]

"But teacher Watanasak Atsajan said that teachers were determined to get the best out of their students and develop their capabilities. They had to be fair and if students didn't make any effort in class they deserved to get zero."

 

At last!  A Thai teacher that's got the guts to speak-out against the system.  I was fighting this, "Every student will pass" crap for years.  Teacher Watanasak Atsajan should be commended for trying to make a difference and giving students some incentive to learn.

 

Good luck to you, sir.

[Jonmarleesco]

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

He also said the idea that students should pass regardless of ability or effort was counter productive and set the wrong example. Hard work should be rewarded and laziness and lack of effort condemned.

Contrary to typical Thai culture.

[DavisH]

8 hours ago, Machiavelli said:

It was multiple choice. 

Getting zero on a multiple choice means they haven't made enough merit lately. Suggest to the student that they go to "tumboon" more often. At least they can then get 25% correct!

[Dumbastheycome]

10 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Someone give the teacher an award for giving actual results rather than some work of fiction that will save the feelings of the child and the parents. If the parents want to do something how about spending time with the kid to find out how to improve their maths ability.

As to the  last suggestion put  2 and  2 together  and decide  if  that  would  actually  assist  this   student?  lol

[owl sees all]

10 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Someone give the teacher an award for giving actual results rather than some work of fiction that will save the feelings of the child and the parents. If the parents want to do something how about spending time with the kid to find out how to improve their maths ability.

A couple of points here. Firstly the teacher would know the culture of the school. Some schools are not l interested in their students at all. Perhaps this school is into 'truth' and 'honesty'. Rare commodities in Thailand!! Some schools just pass them all.

 

This teacher may have tried and failed with this student.

 

There is also the possibility that the family of the student do not have a 'learning and study ethic' (plenty like that everywhere).  And, what then, would be the point of parents spending time with their kids if they themselves can't see the benefit of learning, only falsifying. Which sounds to me to be the case going by what was reported.

Edited May 20, 2017 by owl sees all
syntax error

[Oxx]

6 hours ago, Rhys said:

The young cool aid student, a little boy, was given a very simple question... he answered wrong the parent, the mom, got up and Whump him upside his head.    The teacher had to bit his lip from laughing...

 

I'm sure you think this is an amusing anecdote.  I, however, see it as unacceptable child abuse.

 

It is never appropriate to hit a child on the head.  And the teacher laughing inside at the child abuse is clearly unfit to teach.

[owl sees all]

6 minutes ago, Oxx said:

I'm sure you think this is an amusing anecdote.  I, however, see it as unacceptable child abuse.

I am with you 100% Oxx.

 

However this is Thailand and abuse of children in school and in the home is rampant. Recall the teacher who threw a mug at a student's head?!

[diehard60]

I have to agree with the teacher here. But were the students told at the beginning of the year that they could fail if they don't do the work or at least try.

[hgma]

teachers should take their hands of their pupils..... teach and that's it.

Parents responsibility that kids do their homework,,,,help out and in case the kid needs extra lessons hire a private teacher in the weekends...............if teachers are not up to the job or level of teaching to low, seek new school.

[YetAnother]

this story is a looking glass into the thai education system

[scasey]

School just opened, so why are students having test ? No wonder the student failed miserably . There hasn't been any material learnt yet . Teachers fault. I think the teacher is willing to lose his or her job fighting with parents ! Rookie.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Oxx]

19 minutes ago, scasey said:

School just opened, so why are students having test ? No wonder the student failed miserably . There hasn't been any material learnt yet . Teachers fault. I think the teacher is willing to lose his or her job fighting with parents ! Rookie.

 

Fail!

 

Teachers use testing to establish what students do and don't understand.  This enables them to tailor their teaching to the students needs - not teaching things the student already understands, reteaching things the student hasn't grasped.  It also provides a baseline so the teacher can see how much each student improves over the course of a term.

[Gonzo the Face]

1 hour ago, scasey said:

School just opened, so why are students having test ? No wonder the student failed miserably . There hasn't been any material learnt yet . Teachers fault. I think the teacher is willing to lose his or her job fighting with parents ! Rookie.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Did YOU make it to grade 2  ????

[owl sees all]

4 hours ago, hgma said:

teachers should take their hands of their pupils..... teach and that's it.

I've heard that before. "Hey teacher leave those kids alone!"

[Oleg57]

I used to teach science and English in a Thai school. Once, I have destroyed a quiz of one girl that was openly coping answers from her friend quiz. She was also insisting that I have to count her previous quiz that was also a copy. I have told to her and to others that quizzes of anybody who was cheating and got caught red handed will be not counted. I mean - they would get a 0 mark. Later on a major of the school got shouting on me that I should not do so and such quizzes have to be counted too. Two days later I tried to speak with her politely and convince her that such practice cannot be tolerated at any school. She replied that cheating is a part of Thai culture and as a foreigner I understand nothing. And if I want to teach pupils honesty and decency I have to return to Germany and to teach in there. So, I replied - OK, I am not going to waste my time in such a school and will quit end of semester. It costed me some money, sure. My fellow teachers told me so that I have to take all easy and those who are cheating are hurting themselves. So, if I want to teach in Thailand I have to except cheating and dishonesty. Well, as I wrote above I just do not want to waste my time and to spoil kids. It was a class for kids from more prosperous parents as the education fee was 40 thousand Thai Baht per year.  Poor kids are much better. I like them. But the spoiled rich kids are sometimes a nightmare. They treat a teacher as a servant and may shouting on me demanding higher score, for example. The experience was quit disgusting. But at least I understand Thai elite better. I mean kids of rich parents get to the elite. Others have no chance. This is not Germany after all.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[owl sees all]

5 minutes ago, Oleg57 said:

They treat a teacher as a servant

I've no experience of the 'better' schools so you make a point that is new to me. But where I presently live the opposite applies. The teachers think they are god's gift and the kids are there for their benefit. The teaching is also quite appalling.

 

By the way Oleg57 your post was an excellent read but it would have read better with a paragraph or two. Maybe that's just the English in me. If paragraphs are not used in Germany please forgive my ignorance.  

[YetAnother]

On 5/20/2017 at 7:30 AM, missoura said:

In 99’ I held the position as an ‘ajarn’ at a prestigious Bangkok university.Class attendance for students was a possible option. If a student was a TV star or the latest monthly model then class was not necessary. Other occasional or no-show students included the football team, other sport teams, the seemingly daily special university activity to celebrate something, rich kids, not feeling well, didn’t have a car excuse, traffic jams and the list goes on. Had a student show up for the final exam. Which was fantastic, I finally got to meet him. He got a zero.

 

But not for the course. There was a committee (that I was not on) to determine the final grade for each class. No idea why. In the end, this one day student received an A for the course. 

 

I also taught a few graduate classes at a large Thailand university. Same, same…

i hope young wannabe teachers here read this

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, Oleg57 said:

I used to teach science and English in a Thai school. Once, I have destroyed a quiz of one girl that was openly coping answers from her friend quiz. She was also insisting that I have to count her previous quiz that was also a copy. I have told to her and to others that quizzes of anybody who was cheating and got caught red handed will be not counted. I mean - they would get a 0 mark. Later on a major of the school got shouting on me that I should not do so and such quizzes have to be counted too. Two days later I tried to speak with her politely and convince her that such practice cannot be tolerated at any school. She replied that cheating is a part of Thai culture and as a foreigner I understand nothing. And if I want to teach pupils honesty and decency I have to return to Germany and to teach in there. So, I replied - OK, I am not going to waste my time in such a school and will quit end of semester. It costed me some money, sure. My fellow teachers told me so that I have to take all easy and those who are cheating are hurting themselves. So, if I want to teach in Thailand I have to except cheating and dishonesty. Well, as I wrote above I just do not want to waste my time and to spoil kids. It was a class for kids from more prosperous parents as the education fee was 40 thousand Thai Baht per year.  Poor kids are much better. I like them. But the spoiled rich kids are sometimes a nightmare. They treat a teacher as a servant and may shouting on me demanding higher score, for example. The experience was quit disgusting. But at least I understand Thai elite better. I mean kids of rich parents get to the elite. Others have no chance. This is not Germany after all.

"I used to teach science and English"

 

:-(

[owl sees all]

33 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

"I used to teach science and English"

I know your where you are on this muzmurray. I've read the piece a couple of times and it's easy to pick holes in the grammar. But at least it is readable and understandable!

 

For me, the beauty of a good forum is not only debate but member's personal experiences; and this we got.

 

Some of the posts on Tvisa read as though the poster had just returned from the bar, is ready for bed and can't be bothered to put in any decent contribution.

[yardrunner]

8 hours ago, diehard60 said:

I have to agree with the teacher here. But were the students told at the beginning of the year that they could fail if they don't do the work or at least try.

they should not have to be told, it should be the policy but unfortunately it is not

[bmore99]

How about students who only write their names & exam IDs and the paper empty?[emoji38]

Those most likely suffer from dyslexia and are left without special care.

Sent from my SM-A800F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[owl sees all]

20 hours ago, Moti24 said:

At last!  A Thai teacher that's got the guts to speak-out against the system.

Now although I've copied the above I am going to use the quote in a different context.

 

A pal of mine was dismissed from his position, as an English teacher, at a school in K-------pi, Udon Thani. His 'crime' was refusing to agree to his students getting on their hands and knees and praising him. He wanted just a handshake from each. He was compensated by the way.

 

"Humans get off your knees"; to quote a famous voice. Not got the message here yet. Probably never!!

[Moti24]

40 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Now although I've copied the above I am going to use the quote in a different context.

 

A pal of mine was dismissed from his position, as an English teacher, at a school in K-------pi, Udon Thani. His 'crime' was refusing to agree to his students getting on their hands and knees and praising him. He wanted just a handshake from each. He was compensated by the way.

 

"Humans get off your knees"; to quote a famous voice. Not got the message here yet. Probably never!

 

My post was about the current education system.  Your pal's altercation was about local school rules, although I suspect that you are unaware of the full facts.

 

Your comment wasn't in context to the real problem, just the tip of the iceberg.  If you want to see all, as your user name suggests, you will have to teach in a Thai school.

[owl sees all]

10 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

My post was about the current education system.  Your pal's altercation was about local school rules, although I suspect that you are unaware of the full facts.

 

Your comment wasn't in context to the real problem, just the tip of the iceberg.  If you want to see all, as your user name suggests, you will have to teach in a Thai school.

I read your post and I did say in the first line; and I quote

 

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Now although I've copied the above I am going to use the quote in a different context.

I'm not disagreeing with you about your post and I like a lot of the copy. I'm simply putting forward a little anecdote.

Actually I am very much informed about the 'full facts' of the case to which I was referring.

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by owl sees all

[YetAnother]

cmon guys; address the issue; sniping is useless