Israel makes some concessions to Palestinians before Trump visit

[webfact]

Israel makes some concessions to Palestinians before Trump visit

By Ori Lewis

REUTERS

 

Palestinians print posters depicting U.S. President Donald Trump in preparations for his planned visit, in the West Bank town of Bethlehem May 21, 2017. REUTERS/Mussa Qawasma

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel on Sunday authorised a few economic concessions to the Palestinians requested by President Donald Trump, hours before the U.S. leader begins a visit in which he hopes to revive peace talks frozen since 2014.

 

As well as the concessions, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Security Cabinet - a forum of senior ministers - voted to establish a committee to examine legalising outposts built without formal approval in the occupied West Bank.

 

"The security cabinet has approved economic measures that will ease daily civilian life in the Palestinian Authority after (Trump) who arrives tomorrow, asked to see some confidence building steps," the cabinet statement said.

 

Trump arrives in Israel on Monday and will meet Netanyahu. On Tuesday, he will go briefly to the West Bank to see Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and will later speak in Jerusalem before heading to Rome and then Brussels.

 

"These are concessions ahead of Trump's visit that do not harm Israel's interests," an Israeli diplomatic source said.

 

The concessions include the building of two industrial zones at Jalameh in the northern West Bank and Tarqumiyeh in the south and would keep the Allenby Bridge crossing that connects the West Bank and Jordan open 24 hours a day.

 

It said it would also ease restrictions on Palestinian construction in areas where it retains overall control at places that abut Palestinian urban areas.

 

Among the main bones of contention between Israelis and Palestinians are Netanyahu's insistence that the Palestinians recognise Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people and the Palestinians calling for a halt to Israeli settlement building in the West Bank.

 

The committee to examine legalising Israeli outposts would work for three years, although its exact mandate was still to be defined, the statement said. Over decades, settlers have built scores of hilltop outposts without receiving government approval.

 

Most countries consider all Israeli settlements, including those built with official sanction, to be illegal. Israel disagrees, citing historical and political links to the land - which the Palestinians also assert - as well as security interests.

 

The Palestinians want to establish a state in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, which Israeli forces and settlers left in 2005, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

 

Trump began his first international trip since taking office in January with a visit to Saudi Arabia on Saturday. The trip has been billed as a chance to visit places sacred to three of the world's major religions.

 

(Writing by Ori Lewis; Editing by Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-22

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel on Sunday authorised a few economic concessions to the Palestinians requested by President Donald Trump, hours before the U.S. leader begins a visit in which he hopes to revive peace talks frozen since 2014.

Its the same old game I have seen played out time and again over the decades. Its all political back slapping photo op believe in us horse puckey. I wonder  how much Israel will garner in weaponry or did the Saudi's get it all. The Israel's sure know which side of the bread their butter is on. The Donald should have an easy time of it here. I wonder if he will get a gold chain like the Saudi's gave him. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by elgordo38

[Srikcir]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

"These are concessions ahead of Trump's visit that do not harm Israel's interests,"

It's a gift to concede what has no value.

It's a negotiation to concede what has value.

Palestine doesn't need gratuitous, meaningless gifts. But surely Trump will be impressed by Israel's gesture.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

It's a gift to concede what has no value.

It's a negotiation to concede what has value.

Palestine doesn't need gratuitous, meaningless gifts. But surely Trump will be impressed by Israel's gesture.

 

So concessions would have been of value only if they would have harmed Israeli interests?

On what basis do you consider the measures details "meaningless"?

[Kiwiken]

Concession will be given until the Palestinians have had all their land annexed and they are dispersed into a Dispora of history. "When you think you are on top of the Hill is when you discover too late that it has been eroded beneath you"

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Concession will be given until the Palestinians have had all their land annexed and they are dispersed into a Dispora of history. "When you think you are on top of the Hill is when you discover too late that it has been eroded beneath you"

Like the quote sometimes holds true to life in general. 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Concession will be given until the Palestinians have had all their land annexed and they are dispersed into a Dispora of history. "When you think you are on top of the Hill is when you discover too late that it has been eroded beneath you"

Some here seem to possess a crystal ball. So far, the Palestinian territory is not about to be annexed, and the Palestinians are unlikely to be "dispersed" into the dramatic, if unclear, "Di(a)spora of history".

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

Some here seem to possess a crystal ball. So far, the Palestinian territory is not about to be annexed, and the Palestinians are unlikely to be "dispersed" into the dramatic, if unclear, "Di(a)spora of history".

Look at any map to disprove that statement. Palestinian land is reduced to small areas surrounded by illegal settlements.

It isn't an announced annexation, but an annexation by facts on the ground. Palestinian dispossession by a thousand cuts.

Thousands of Palestinians are already dispersed into the diasporia of refugee camps.

 

That the OP mentions concessions to the Palestinians in the same article as a committee to legalise the illegal settlements shows how farcical the whole situation has become.

[Morch]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Look at any map to disprove that statement. Palestinian land is reduced to small areas surrounded by illegal settlements.

It isn't an announced annexation, but an annexation by facts on the ground. Palestinian dispossession by a thousand cuts.

Thousands of Palestinians are already dispersed into the diasporia of refugee camps.

 

That the OP mentions concessions to the Palestinians in the same article as a committee to legalise the illegal settlements shows how farcical the whole situation has become.

 

If one chooses to look at bogus maps, sure. The ones usually used to push this nonsense argument skip the part of there not being an actual "Palestinian land". In effect, and as sad as it is, the current state of things represents the greatest level of sovereignty exercised by Palestinians. That you declare the Palestinian territory as annexed is fine, so long as facts do not matter. Annexation is a rather clear term, and until it happens you'll have to make do without it. Palestinians are in refugee camps owing to two rounds of war. There is no suggestion, I think, of a third war on a similar scale taking place anytime soon. Nor is it prescribed that results will be similar.

 

The committee mentioned is rather the opposite of what you present. It serves a dual purpose - the first, a PR "bribe" to right wing elements of the Israeli coalition (as to balance the bitter pill of concessions to Palestinians). The second, acting as another buffer to control the consequences of the latest related legislation. An unclear mandate, and a service term of three years are pretty much the epitome of "pass it to a committee".

 

The concessions are not immaterial or inconsequential, if applied. They represent a potential for alleviating some economic pressure and introducing some improvement in the quality of life, as far as Palestinians go. Unless mistaken, all were raised on previous occasions by the Palestinians themselves. They are not comprehensive, they do not address all related issues - and they were not supposed to. The Trump administration asked for certain steps to implemented, and that's the scope discussed.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

If one chooses to look at bogus maps, sure. The ones usually used to push this nonsense argument skip the part of there not being an actual "Palestinian land".

Oh dear.

Before the UN took the land by a decree in a forum thousands of miles away from the "Palestinian Mandate" ( The British certainly believed it was called Palestine, as did the Romans ), the land was settled by people known as "Palestinians", ergo Palestinians living in Palestine.

Yes, it was part of the Ottoman empire before the British drove them out, but The British called the area Palestine, and not the once upon a time Ottoman empire land.

Even the UN recognised the right of the people that already lived there to continue doing so by drawing a border between Zionist land and non Zionist land. Only Israel considers Palestinian land not to be Palestinian land. Even the US considers Palestinian land to be a fact, though it won't do anything to protect "freedom and justice" for Palestinians.

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear.

Before the UN took the land by a decree in a forum thousands of miles away from the "Palestinian Mandate" ( The British certainly believed it was called Palestine, as did the Romans ), the land was settled by people known as "Palestinians", ergo Palestinians living in Palestine.

Yes, it was part of the Ottoman empire before the British drove them out, but The British called the area Palestine, and not the once upon a time Ottoman empire land.

Even the UN recognised the right of the people that already lived there to continue doing so by drawing a border between Zionist land and non Zionist land. Only Israel considers Palestinian land not to be Palestinian land. Even the US considers Palestinian land to be a fact, though it won't do anything to protect "freedom and justice" for Palestinians.

 

 

The same old off-topic argument? Oh dear indeed.

 

If you reject the authority of the UN in this matter, than there's also no basis for Palestinian statehood. It rests on the same resolutions. The etiology of the name, and the simplified historical accounts are irrelevant. Do try some better quality deflections, will you?

 

And mind, you're barking at the wrong tree here. I'm not among those denying the Palestinians right to self-determination. I'm simply pointing out that your account and terminology are wrong, and that you have nothing of substance to add directly on-topic.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Morch

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The same old off-topic argument? Oh dear indeed.

 

If you reject the authority of the UN in this matter, than there's also no basis for Palestinian statehood. It rests on the same resolutions. The etiology of the name, and the simplified historical accounts are irrelevant. Do try some better quality deflections, will you?

 

And mind, you're barking at the wrong tree here. I'm not among those denying the Palestinians right to self-determination. I'm simply pointing out that your account and terminology are wrong, and that you have nothing of substance to add directly on-topic.

I do dispute the authority of the UN to simply decree that a country should be created where it didn't exist. It is the only time it was done like that, and it was done because powerful people wanted it. South Sudan wasn't just invented in the UN because the US wanted it to be so.

It's pointless continuing this discussion, so I won't.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I do dispute the authority of the UN to simply decree that a country should be created where it didn't exist. It is the only time it was done like that, and it was done because powerful people wanted it. South Sudan wasn't just invented in the UN because the US wanted it to be so.

It's pointless continuing this discussion, so I won't.

 

In other words - nothing to add on-topic, and unable to deal with own logical blunders.

I take it you reject Palestinian self-determination as well?

[Jingthing]

Largely, a big old nothingburger.

 

Quote

Departing from Israel for the European leg of his overseas trip, Trump has left Israelis and Palestinians with no tangible framework for negotiations, and no guiding principles to frame the negotiations. The key to achieving Trump’s “ultimate deal” in the Middle East is still in the details, and these details have not been made clearer after his 20-something-hour visit to the heart of the conflict.

Read more: http://forward.com/news/israel/372770/analysis-trumps-ultimate-deal-no-closer-after-israel-visit/

 

[anon4546543]

So Israel makes some concessions? How about getting out of the illegal occupied land. Get out of Jerusalem. The city of Solomon is a myth. 

Solomon is a myth. How about granting equal rights to Palestinians exorcised after Israel scammed their way to a new state. Na forget it, I must be racist and anti Israel which is what anyone is called if they question the truth about the current state of "Israel". I don't accept it, nor does anyone who knows their history. 

[pegman]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear.

Before the UN took the land by a decree in a forum thousands of miles away from the "Palestinian Mandate" ( The British certainly believed it was called Palestine, as did the Romans ), the land was settled by people known as "Palestinians", ergo Palestinians living in Palestine.

Yes, it was part of the Ottoman empire before the British drove them out, but The British called the area Palestine, and not the once upon a time Ottoman empire land.

Even the UN recognised the right of the people that already lived there to continue doing so by drawing a border between Zionist land and non Zionist land. Only Israel considers Palestinian land not to be Palestinian land. Even the US considers Palestinian land to be a fact, though it won't do anything to protect "freedom and justice" for Palestinians.

 

True, the Israelis themselves recognize 121 settlements that are situated in all areas of the West Bank. There are 400,000 Jews that live there. This has gone on far too long destabilizing world peace. A boycott is required. It should stay in place until such time as the Zionists agree to a single, secular state.  The Brits and Americans will no doubt with hold support as they disgustingly did with that other apartheid state, South Africa. No matter the rest of the world pulled it off and can again. 

[pegman]

2 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

So Israel makes some concessions? How about getting out of the illegal occupied land. Get out of Jerusalem. The city of Solomon is a myth. 

Solomon is a myth. How about granting equal rights to Palestinians exorcised after Israel scammed their way to a new state. Na forget it, I must be racist and anti Israel which is what anyone is called if they question the truth about the current state of "Israel". I don't accept it, nor does anyone who knows their history. 

Well stated. These guys are still peddling Leon Uris as a historian not a fiction writer.

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

True, the Israelis themselves recognize 121 settlements that are situated in all areas of the West Bank. There are 400,000 Jews that live there. This has gone on far too long destabilizing world peace. A boycott is required. It should stay in place until such time as the Zionists agree to a single, secular state.  The Brits and Americans will no doubt with hold support as they disgustingly did with that other apartheid state, South Africa. No matter the rest of the world pulled it off and can again. 

You are clueless to history. According to your revisionist history, the Ottoman Empire never existed. Unfortunately for your hateful lies,  most  people  know that Turkey controlled much of the region, from North Africa to present day Syria and Iraq, to Yemen and Saudi Arabia and parts of Europe. The arab countries we know today as Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Saudi Arabia etc. were creations following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Israel was a nation before the Ottoman Empire captured and colonized it. To deny that is to deny that Egypt, Greece, and parts of the Balkan nations existed, because they too had suffered the same fate as Israel.

Israel is not an apartheid state for the simple reason that Israelis of all ethnic origin are allowed to vote and have civil rights including due process. You do not understand what an apartheid state is, but you toss it out. If Israel was an apartheid state the  Israelis who identify as Israeli arab would not  have elected their sectarian based MKs. As you are a fan of  fighting the apartheid state, why don't you start in your own city of Winnipeg and address the discrimination   your first nations people  face? Do you laugh when you post your hateful comments., knowing that   first nations people in Winnipeg are not able to live in some neighborhoods or face overt discrimination?  Israel never conducted a cultural genocide as did your country with its residential schools, and yet you have the gall to claim  Israel has caused sectarianism.  

[Opl]

 

After their visit to Yad Vashem, the Shoah memorial in Jerusalem. Trump and Obama left a note

Edited May 24, 2017 by Opl

[Morch]

I take it posters banging on about pet versions of ancient history, engaging in the usual one-sided denunciations, and offering decisive actions do not actually have much to add directly on topic.

 

The derided concessions are, for the most part, issues previously raised by the Palestinians themselves. Granted, they do not amount to resolving the conflict in its entirety nor do they address all the issues therein. They are limited steps, and represent an initial phase which may lead to negotiations. Measuring them against the whole of the conflict and related history is preposterous. Rather, their test would be through actual implementation and effect on lives of the Palestinian population. That's the scope referred to.

[anon4546543]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You are clueless to history. According to your revisionist history, the Ottoman Empire never existed. Unfortunately for your hateful lies,  most  people  know that Turkey controlled much of the region, from North Africa to present day Syria and Iraq, to Yemen and Saudi Arabia and parts of Europe. The arab countries we know today as Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Saudi Arabia etc. were creations following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Israel was a nation before the Ottoman Empire captured and colonized it. To deny that is to deny that Egypt, Greece, and parts of the Balkan nations existed, because they too had suffered the same fate as Israel.

Israel is not an apartheid state for the simple reason that Israelis of all ethnic origin are allowed to vote and have civil rights including due process. You do not understand what an apartheid state is, but you toss it out. If Israel was an apartheid state the  Israelis who identify as Israeli arab would not  have elected their sectarian based MKs. As you are a fan of  fighting the apartheid state, why don't you start in your own city of Winnipeg and address the discrimination   your first nations people  face? Do you laugh when you post your hateful comments., knowing that   first nations people in Winnipeg are not able to live in some neighborhoods or face overt discrimination?  Israel never conducted a cultural genocide as did your country with its residential schools, and yet you have the gall to claim  Israel has caused sectarianism.  

I read with utter disbelief that you state that Israel was a state before the Ottoman Empire. What absolute rot. Israel had divides into Israel and Judea before the Persians wiped  both countries off the map. Neither state has ever existed since then, they never had a mandate. What we now know as Israel was called Sumeria before the Roman occupation, indeed, Palestine is the word from then. Palestine is a Philestine word, as is Sumeria for Samaritan. Get a few history facts before you post such lurid lies 

[Johpa]

On 5/22/2017 at 5:11 PM, Kiwiken said:

Concession will be given until the Palestinians have had all their land annexed and they are dispersed into a Dispora of history. "When you think you are on top of the Hill is when you discover too late that it has been eroded beneath you"

 

Do you then also consider Muslims who moved from India into Pakistan or Hindus who moved into India during that partition now living in a diaspora?  Or perhaps the more existential question, are there Palestinians, as a national identity, without an Israel?  Without an Israel I would imagine the land would have become part of Jordan.  Of course we could argue whether Jordan should be ruled by an outsider,  one from the Hashem clan.  But clan and tribal identities do not map well onto western modes of political geography.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

Do you then also consider Muslims who moved from India into Pakistan or Hindus who moved into India during that partition now living in a diaspora?  Or perhaps the more existential question, are there Palestinians, as a national identity, without an Israel?  Without an Israel I would imagine the land would have become part of Jordan.  Of course we could argue whether Jordan should be ruled by an outsider,  one from the Hashem clan.  But clan and tribal identities do not map well onto western modes of political geography.

are there Palestinians, as a national identity, without an Israel?  

The world community refers to people that lived in the area known as Palestine, but currently live in refugee camps as Palestinians. So I guess the answer must be yes, especially as they are not recognised as belonging to any other country.

As for the Muslims and Hindus that relocated during independence in India, they remained within the boundaries of "India", so no more in a diaspora than I would be if I moved to a different town.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

 

Please stay on topic.  

[Jingthing]

Some realistic PESSIMISM as a followup to trump's big bupkis trip to Israel and the west bank:

 

Quote

 

Is The Two State Solution Over? Thomas Friedman Says…Maybe.

 

On the subject of the U.S., he gave no credence to President Trump’s apparent optimism about the prospect of peace during his recent visit to Israel. While Trump may turn out to be the wild card that sparks some action by the parties, an X-factor so different from conventional politicians, Friedman was blunt about the US President’s comments: “I don’t see anything” – no evidence for optimism, and no confidence in Trump’s capacity to achieve a breakthrough.

 

 

 Read more: http://forward.com/scribe/373318/is-the-two-state-solution-over-thomas-friedman-says-maybe/