Marriage Visa - another unpublished change ?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Sorry to harp on about this,  what you write is so true whats acceptable today is not tomorow. Or what one IO wants another doesnt. Thats the main reason why i stick to Non O visa's straight forward no hassle and very little contact with immigration which is the biggest plus.

I have given up even hoping that I will be able to get an extension on my own, and will be paying an agent. Even then, I have doubts it will be accepted as I won't be in a permanent dwelling, as leaving for business reasons shortly after the extension date, and intending to return in 3 months on the extension.

 

There is no requirement published that my residence should be a long term arrangement, but I doubt that makes any difference. It will be an excuse to deny me.

I'm not a happy chap at all.

 

If it does turn out differently, I'll update my experience.

Edited May 24, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Tofer said:

It is a fact, they cannot be bothered with the administration of a marriage visa, too much like hard work, particularly as the fee is the same as a retirement visa.

You seem to be complaining that "they" are trying to do you a favor by processing a simpler application that can be agreed on the spot and doesn't need signing off by a higher up!

[jeab1980]

17 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You seem to be complaining that "they" are trying to do you a favor by processing a simpler application that can be agreed on the spot and doesn't need signing off by a higher up!

They are not doing anyone any favours  they as public servants should do as requested by the public. You cant work on a reitement ext so maybe thats why people want a marriage ext. After all they get paid to do the job so they should do it. 

[elviajero]

45 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

They are not doing anyone any favours  they as public servants should do as requested by the public. You cant work on a reitement ext so maybe thats why people want a marriage ext. After all they get paid to do the job so they should do it. 

Of course they are. It makes no difference whether the extension of stay is issued on the basis of marriage or retirement unless you plan to work and even then, being married, might not exclude getting a work permit. At the end it's the same 1 year permit to stay.

 

They are doing you a favour by asking for less paperwork, avoiding the 1 month consideration period and maybe even a home visit.

 

People constantly complain because they are asked to provide pointless/extra paperwork to get a marriage extension, and you are now insisting that they make you jump through the extra hoops. Amazing!

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by elviajero

[Phuket Man]

7 hours ago, OmarZaid said:

Don't forget to grease the skids.

No need to if you qualify.

[muzmurray]

On 5/23/2017 at 5:36 PM, osmond said:

Totally agree it is a lot more paperwork for all, but there are reasons for using them for some of us who are entitled to them . .

 

You are entitled to apply, not to the extension - get off your high horse !

[jeab1980]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

Of course they are. It makes no difference whether the extension of stay is issued on the basis of marriage or retirement unless you plan to work and even then, being married, might not exclude getting a work permit. At the end it's the same 1 year permit to stay.

 

They are doing you a favour by asking for less paperwork, avoiding the 1 month consideration period and maybe even a home visit.

 

People constantly complain because they are asked to provide pointless/extra paperwork to get a marriage extension, and you are now insisting that they make you jump through the extra hoops. Amazing!

 

So you are telling me you can get a WP on a retirement extension of stay or have you read my post incorrectly. Which i suspect you have.  On re reading your post the answer is yes you read my post incorrectly.

Edited May 24, 2017 by jeab1980

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and the replies to it.

[elviajero]

57 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

So you are telling me you can get a WP on a retirement extension of stay or have you read my post incorrectly. Which i suspect you have.  On re reading your post the answer is yes you read my post incorrectly.

Yes it is possible. It would be down to the labour office issuing the WP. I understand your post completely.

Edited May 24, 2017 by elviajero

[swissie]

On 23.5.2017 at 1:41 PM, elviajero said:

It happens at other offices and is simply because it is easier for them to issue an extension based on retirement rather than one for marriage. If you have enough in the bank,/income and are over 50, they will often encourage you to go the retirement route. Unless you are planning to work it makes little difference which way you go.

An Immi-Officer, claiming that "Retirement Visa" versus "Marriage Visa" is easier for us and you is absolutely correct.
So frankly, I don't know why Farangs put themselves thru such agonizing procedures, persuing a "marriage-visa", instead of just going the "Retirement-Visa" route.

Yes  ,the financial requirements are higher for a "Retirement Visa", but if that difference is of such importance, it would indicate, that the Farang Resident, has not adequate financial means to cover unforeseen events.
Living on the edge, the "nanny-State" 9000 Km's away.
Cheers.     

[Stargeezr]

I realy believe that Thailand only likes the short stay tourists, and not expats who live in country. I read these kinds of stories

every year and no Improvements.  It would be nice if this country would get its SH*T together, but I will be dead before that ever

happens.  Guess I should be happy that I am a short timer.

Geezer

[Tofer]

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

You seem to be complaining that "they" are trying to do you a favor by processing a simpler application that can be agreed on the spot and doesn't need signing off by a higher up!

Sorry, not at all, they are only doing themselves the favour - too bloody lazy! I wanted a marriage visa, and have spent a lot of time and money getting to the point where, I thought (following IO's advice), we had all the right documents.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I realy believe that Thailand only likes the short stay tourists, and not expats who live in country. I read these kinds of stories

every year and no Improvements.  It would be nice if this country would get its SH*T together, but I will be dead before that ever

happens.  Guess I should be happy that I am a short timer.

Geezer

People who haven't got problems don't tend to open a thread about it.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Tofer said:

Sorry, not at all, they are only doing themselves the favour - too bloody lazy! I wanted a marriage visa, and have spent a lot of time and money getting to the point where, I thought (following IO's advice), we had all the right documents.

It helps them too and does give them slightly less paperwork to deal with, but having an extension granted on the spot is a benefit to the applicant (you).

 

Why do you feel hard done by if applying for a (marriage) extension (not a visa) and receiving a (retirement) extension? You wanted a 1 year extension and got one!

 

You may have spent time and money, but as you provided what was needed to satisfy an extension issued on the spot they gave it to you. That meant the application doesn't need to be signed off by a higher up and you don't need to make another visit to immigration to receive the permit. That's a win win!

 

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I realy believe that Thailand only likes the short stay tourists, and not expats who live in country. I read these kinds of stories

every year and no Improvements.  It would be nice if this country would get its SH*T together, but I will be dead before that ever

happens.  Guess I should be happy that I am a short timer.

Geezer

If they didn't want "expats who live in country" they wouldn't keep granting thousands of permits to stay every year.

 

It is very, very easy to live in Thailand for anyone that can meet the very, very easy criteria. Most problems that expats experience are due to their lack of knowledge, lack of preparation, and sense of entitlement. Most changes and extra requirements requested by immigration are the result of increasing fraudulent applications (e.g. fake marriages) and security fears.

 

Most people go to immigration every year and have absolutely no problems being granted a new extension. Thai bureaucrats  are programmed to dot every i and cross every t, and to follow the rules imposed by their bosses. Employees in government agencies will treat Thai's and foreigners exactly the same way. If you provide what they want, you get what you want. 

[rayong09]

12 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I realy believe that Thailand only likes the short stay tourists, and not expats who live in country. I read these kinds of stories

every year and no Improvements.  It would be nice if this country would get its SH*T together, but I will be dead before that ever

happens.  Guess I should be happy that I am a short timer.

Geezer

Couldn't agree more!

[jeab1980]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

If they didn't want "expats who live in country" they wouldn't keep granting thousands of permits to stay every year.

 

It is very, very easy to live in Thailand for anyone that can meet the very, very easy criteria. Most problems that expats experience are due to their lack of knowledge, lack of preparation, and sense of entitlement. Most changes and extra requirements requested by immigration are the result of increasing fraudulent applications (e.g. fake marriages) and security fears.

 

Most people go to immigration every year and have absolutely no problems being granted a new extension. Thai bureaucrats  are programmed to dot every i and cross every t, and to follow the rules imposed by their bosses. Employees in government agencies will treat Thai's and foreigners exactly the same way. If you provide what they want, you get what you want. 

Well om sorry if you read certain posts on here they have gone to immigration armed with all the correct paperwork as per there immigration office requirements. Some have even gone before to ask them for what is required. Only to be told they dont have this or that. Or pushed towards an extension they dont want.regardless of your feelings about extensions, and more paperwork for themon marriage extensions. It clearly states you can have ext based on marriage to a thai national or retirement in there rules. If a person wants a marriage extension and meet the criteria then they should be able to apply with all the right documents pictures and bank details they were told was required and get what they want. All this garbage about peoples lack of knowledge. Its more what individual immigration officers decide they want on the day.

[muzmurray]

26 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Well om sorry if you read certain posts on here they have gone to immigration armed with all the correct paperwork as per there immigration office requirements. Some have even gone before to ask them for what is required. Only to be told they dont have this or that. Or pushed towards an extension they dont want.regardless of your feelings about extensions, and more paperwork for themon marriage extensions. It clearly states you can have ext based on marriage to a thai national or retirement in there rules. If a person wants a marriage extension and meet the criteria then they should be able to apply with all the right documents pictures and bank details they were told was required and get what they want. All this garbage about peoples lack of knowledge. Its more what individual immigration officers decide they want on the day.

"If a person wants a marriage extension and meet the criteria then they should be able to apply with all the right documents pictures and bank details they were told was required and get what they want."

 

Don't confuse your right to apply, with you getting what you want. What you want is not always possible - tough.

Edited May 25, 2017 by muzmurray

[jeab1980]

7 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

"If a person wants a marriage extension and meet the criteria then they should be able to apply with all the right documents pictures and bank details they were told was required and get what they want."

 

Don't confuse your right to apply, with you getting what you want. What you want is not always possible - tough.

I never implied that at all if you read tbe post correctly i stated with all required documents pictures bank details they were told was required.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

Well om sorry if you read certain posts on here they have gone to immigration armed with all the correct paperwork as per there immigration office requirements. Some have even gone before to ask them for what is required. Only to be told they dont have this or that. Or pushed towards an extension they dont want.regardless of your feelings about extensions, and more paperwork for themon marriage extensions. It clearly states you can have ext based on marriage to a thai national or retirement in there rules. If a person wants a marriage extension and meet the criteria then they should be able to apply with all the right documents pictures and bank details they were told was required and get what they want. All this garbage about peoples lack of knowledge. Its more what individual immigration officers decide they want on the day.

You are applying for a 1 year extension of stay. In order to get it you have to justify a reason. Someone who is married or over 50 has two justifiable reasons to get the same extension. It doesn't matter which reason you use because you end up with the same 1 year permit to stay.

 

The IO's are looking for the easiest path to give you the extension, so if you go armed with the paperwork that meets the 'retirement' criteria they will, for mutual benefit, issue the extension based on 'retirement' on the spot.

 

The notation on the permit stamped in your passport simply advises other IO's how you qualified to receive the 1 year extension.

 

I'm married, over 50 (just) and a parent. When I apply for an extension I apply for it based on being a parent so that I do not need to tie up 800K/400K in a Thai bank for months before applying or bother with an income affidavit. If I went in with a bank book with over 800K in it they would process the application based on being over 50 and issue it on the spot. What is the downside to that!

 

Why would you want to insist on having the application placed under consideration, and wait another month for the same 1 year permit that could be granted on the spot. I think you and others simply don't understand what you are applying for.

 

Whatever reason you use to justify needing an extension of stay you end up with the same 1 year extension of stay. It's not hard to understand, and insisting that they note the reason for the extension as marriage is completely bonkers unless you are working in Thailand.

 

 

[ripstanley]

elviajero

 

"I'm married, over 50 (just) and a parent. When I apply for an extension I apply for it based on being a parent so that I do not need to tie up 800K/400K in a Thai bank for months before applying or bother with an income affidavit. If I went in with a bank book with over 800K in it they would process the application based on being over 50 and issue it on the spot. What is the downside to that!"

 

Could you please what is the requirement for an extension of stay based on being a parent? At the moment I have an extension of stay base on retirement with income.

 

 

 

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

If they didn't want "expats who live in country" they wouldn't keep granting thousands of permits to stay every year.

 

It is very, very easy to live in Thailand for anyone that can meet the very, very easy criteria. Most problems that expats experience are due to their lack of knowledge, lack of preparation, and sense of entitlement. Most changes and extra requirements requested by immigration are the result of increasing fraudulent applications (e.g. fake marriages) and security fears.

 

Most people go to immigration every year and have absolutely no problems being granted a new extension. Thai bureaucrats  are programmed to dot every i and cross every t, and to follow the rules imposed by their bosses. Employees in government agencies will treat Thai's and foreigners exactly the same way. If you provide what they want, you get what you want. 

If they are so particular about their i's & t's why is it impossible to get a straight answer to a simple question - what exactly do they need and in what format?

I would be delighted if you could direct me please to the correct source for the definitive criteria, as would a lot of other people judging by the previous posts. Why don't they issue a simple check list form as a clear guide to follow, then there would be no disputes or confusion. My guess is that's too efficient and doesn't leave the door open for individual interpretation...

 

 

 

[jeab1980]

37 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You are applying for a 1 year extension of stay. In order to get it you have to justify a reason. Someone who is married or over 50 has two justifiable reasons to get the same extension. It doesn't matter which reason you use because you end up with the same 1 year permit to stay.

 

The IO's are looking for the easiest path to give you the extension, so if you go armed with the paperwork that meets the 'retirement' criteria they will, for mutual benefit, issue the extension based on 'retirement' on the spot.

 

The notation on the permit stamped in your passport simply advises other IO's how you qualified to receive the 1 year extension.

 

I'm married, over 50 (just) and a parent. When I apply for an extension I apply for it based on being a parent so that I do not need to tie up 800K/400K in a Thai bank for months before applying or bother with an income affidavit. If I went in with a bank book with over 800K in it they would process the application based on being over 50 and issue it on the spot. What is the downside to that!

 

Why would you want to insist on having the application placed under consideration, and wait another month for the same 1 year permit that could be granted on the spot. I think you and others simply don't understand what you are applying for.

 

Whatever reason you use to justify needing an extension of stay you end up with the same 1 year extension of stay. It's not hard to understand, and insisting that they note the reason for the extension as marriage is completely bonkers unless you are working in Thailand.

 

 

Which is what i said in the first place but you insisted you can get a WP on an retirement Extension. Although having trawled through a miriad of posts on that topic so far i have only found one person who says he gets a WP on retirement ext.

Ps the IO is looking for the easiest path for them not you.

[Tofer]

41 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You are applying for a 1 year extension of stay. In order to get it you have to justify a reason. Someone who is married or over 50 has two justifiable reasons to get the same extension. It doesn't matter which reason you use because you end up with the same 1 year permit to stay.

 

The IO's are looking for the easiest path to give you the extension, so if you go armed with the paperwork that meets the 'retirement' criteria they will, for mutual benefit, issue the extension based on 'retirement' on the spot.

 

The notation on the permit stamped in your passport simply advises other IO's how you qualified to receive the 1 year extension.

 

I'm married, over 50 (just) and a parent. When I apply for an extension I apply for it based on being a parent so that I do not need to tie up 800K/400K in a Thai bank for months before applying or bother with an income affidavit. If I went in with a bank book with over 800K in it they would process the application based on being over 50 and issue it on the spot. What is the downside to that!

 

Why would you want to insist on having the application placed under consideration, and wait another month for the same 1 year permit that could be granted on the spot. I think you and others simply don't understand what you are applying for.

 

Whatever reason you use to justify needing an extension of stay you end up with the same 1 year extension of stay. It's not hard to understand, and insisting that they note the reason for the extension as marriage is completely bonkers unless you are working in Thailand.

 

 

Well, there's a turn up for the argument, bonkers is it? But you don't want to tie up 800/400k. What about the rest of us? I was beginning to think you were an IO officer.

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

elviajero

 

"I'm married, over 50 (just) and a parent. When I apply for an extension I apply for it based on being a parent so that I do not need to tie up 800K/400K in a Thai bank for months before applying or bother with an income affidavit. If I went in with a bank book with over 800K in it they would process the application based on being over 50 and issue it on the spot. What is the downside to that!"

 

Could you please what is the requirement for an extension of stay based on being a parent? At the moment I have an extension of stay base on retirement with income.

You need to show 400K in the bank on the day you apply for the extension, or a certified income of 40K pm. You also need to have been married to the mother at the time of the birth, be married to the mother, or be certified as the legal parent.

[ripstanley]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You need to show 400K in the bank on the day you apply for the extension, or a certified income of 40K pm. You also need to have been married to the mother at the time of the birth, be married to the mother, or be certified as the legal parent.

Thank you for the reply.

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, Tofer said:

If they are so particular about their i's & t's why is it impossible to get a straight answer to a simple question - what exactly do they need and in what format?

I would be delighted if you could direct me please to the correct source for the definitive criteria, as would a lot of other people judging by the previous posts. Why don't they issue a simple check list form as a clear guide to follow, then there would be no disputes or confusion. My guess is that's too efficient and doesn't leave the door open for individual interpretation...

There is no definitive criteria. The basic criteria is published in the police orders, however, local immigration offices have a certain amount of autonomy, and the senior officer at that office will/can direct their staff to process the application as they want.

 

You can get general advice on criteria from forums like this, but it is best to contact the office you are applying at ahead of time so you know what that office want. It would be great if there was a countrywide standard, but there isn't and never has been.

[Tofer]

Let's not fall out over it. As Jaeb said - if it's offered and you meet all the requirements you should get what you ask for. 

 

 

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Which is what i said in the first place but you insisted you can get a WP on an retirement Extension. Although having trawled through a miriad of posts on that topic so far i have only found one person who says he gets a WP on retirement ext.

Ps the IO is looking for the easiest path for them not you.

It is possible to get a work permit with a retirement extension. BUT if immigration know you are working in Thailand they will not issue an extension based on 'retirement'. They would only issue it based on marriage, parenthood or the job.

 

You don't seem to understand that the issuance of WP's is by the labour office and not immigration. In most cases the labour office want proof that you have entered with a non-immigrant visa and have valid permit to stay. As with immigration offices the labour offices will have their own policy about what they will and won't accept.

 

Even if the IO is looking for the easiest path for them, if it makes life easier for you, it is a win win.

[jeab1980]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

There is no definitive criteria. The basic criteria is published in the police orders, however, local immigration offices have a certain amount of autonomy, and the senior officer at that office will/can direct their staff to process the application as they want.

 

You can get general advice on criteria from forums like this, but it is best to contact the office you are applying at ahead of time so you know what that office want. It would be great if there was a countrywide standard, but there isn't and never has been.

Sorry did you read the OP he did just that contacted the office.