Trump says U.S. to withdraw from Paris climate accord

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Usernames said:

And these are all "green jobs" achieved without the demands of the Paris Treaty.  So how is rejecting the treaty going to change this?  It isn't. Companies will continue this path.  But the US will not be forced to give away US tax dollars to virtually every country on the planet. 

Trump Administration is acting contrary to the policy positions of major US corporations; if you were on the Board making investment decisions how would that go down with further investment decisions in the renewable energy sector? 

 

The US government was not being "forced" to do anything regards the Paris Accord. The "facts" from the study quoted by Trump during his announcement are in the process of being reviewed; I'm sure detailed fact checks will be published  in the near future which will destroy the credibility of his claims.

 

The Chinese have committed to invest US$350 billion over the next ten years in renewal energy. At the moment I understand none of the  forecasters are predicting a growth in  jobs in the coal industry that Trump keeps promising will occur. Right now there many more US citizens employed in clean energy than in coal. The Administration is acting against the interest of the US economy by the OP decision. Further, I for one fail to understand how US citizens can support Trump, with his decisions to act contrary to their well being. Besides the OP there are numerous other examples...

 

Under the Trump administration, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has paused or scrapped rules that prevent the dumping of mining waste into streams, curb emissions from vehicles and power plants and stop mercury and arsenic seeping into waterways. The EPA’s proposed budget also cuts measures that prevent lead in drinking water and also scraps clean-ups of the Great Lakes and the Gulf of Mexico and shrinks the funding of enforcement of pollution rules.

Edited June 2, 2017 by simple1

[Srikcir]

"At what point does America get demeaned? At what point do they start laughing at us as a country?"

That point already started when Trump was elected POTUS.

[habanero]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

And with no evidence that the change would even occur or that it would even be beneficial to effect that change.

History proves warming is better than cooling.

How many of the countries in the Paris Agreement can have their people swim in their rivers or drink from the tap? How many have clean air?  Thank goodness countries like the Philippines are in this group. They will do a lot to change global warming.

[Rob13]

1 hour ago, tomwct said:

Thank you President Trump for putting America First!

 

Huh?....he's increasing the US's dependency on foreign oil by cutting off funding for alternative energy/solar R&D. That alone should tell you he's not looking out for the US. The more you dig the more you'll find. Anybody who thinks trump is a conservative has missed the bus. 

[Usernames]

Just now, Rob13 said:

 

Huh?....he's increasing the US's dependency on foreign oil by cutting off funding for alternative energy/solar R&D. That alone should tell you he's not looking out for the US. The more you dig the more you'll find. Anybody who thinks trump is a conservative has missed the bus. 

The US now exports energy, both oil, natural gas, and electricity. Things have changed.

[Andaman Al]

Part two of the video above shows why we must act whether we believe in AGW or not. Follow the logic. Trump is so short sighted that he cannot see the end of his nose. This video came after all the feedback and discussion on video 1.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Andaman Al

[ddavidovsky]

How is one man able to make a decision as big as this? No mention of Congress or any legislative process in the OP. Surely this is matter for lengthy debate within government?

[Usernames]

2 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

How is one man able to make a decision as big as this? No mention of Congress or any legislative process in the OP. Surely this is matter for lengthy debate within government?

One man, Obama, made the decision to enroll the US in the Paris Treaty through an Executive Order.  So why can't one man undo it?

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, Usernames said:

The US now exports energy, both oil, natural gas, and electricity. Things have changed.

US has yet to cease being a net importer of energy products, currently forecast to achieve that status between 2020 - 2030.

Edited June 2, 2017 by simple1

[Rob13]

11 minutes ago, Usernames said:

The US now exports energy, both oil, natural gas, and electricity. Things have changed.

 and how are trump's policies helping this trend?

[Usernames]

27 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The Chinese have committed to invest US$350 billion over the next ten years in renewal energy.

So they can sell it to other nations?  What is their record on polluting rivers and oceans? Did you know that the biggest sources of pollution in California, Oregon, and Washington state is . . . China?  Did you know that the US has seen an INCREASE in forested lands since 1963, some 42 years before the Paris Treaty?  And that 70 percent of America's originally forested territory remains forested?  What is the record in China, India and Europe, and all those other countries "worried" about climate change?  Not only has Europe decimated its own forests but leads the world in decimating other continents' forests.  https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/ForestFactsMetric.pdf

Edited June 2, 2017 by Usernames

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, maewang99 said:

the Washington Post's page one is also pointing out the Paris agreement wouldn't have done it.....

which no one ever contended, not even Christiana Figueres.

"Even Before Trump's Decision... the deal's target would be hard to hit".

 

this is what always makes everything easier to deal with. reality.

the rest is nonsense on top of nonsense.
 

 

You're mis-characterizing the Post's reporting. What the article you cite actually says is that it will be more difficult for the world to reach the climate agreement's goals if the U.S. doesn't abide by the terms of the agreement because, obviously, of the size of the country and its pollution output. And if reaching the goal becomes impossible, it will largely be due to the US's non-participation.

 

Quote

 

President Trump’s decision Thursday to withdraw the United States from the Paris climate agreement could make it difficult, if not impossible, for the world to stay on track to reach an internationally agreed-upon goal for limiting dangerous global warming, scientists said.

 

That goal, which sought to limit warming to “well below” a 2-degree Celsius (3.6-degree Fahrenheit) rise above preindustrial temperatures, was already a stretch before Trump announced the U.S. exit in a speech in the White House Rose Garden.

 

With the United States, the world’s second-largest emitter of greenhouse-gas emissions after China, walking away from the accord, other countries will presumably have to ramp up their ambitions still further if they want to avoid the prospect of dangerous warming.

 

“Avoiding a 2-degree warming was already hard when all of the key countries were rowing together,” said Michael Oppenheimer, a climate researcher at Princeton University. “With the U.S. becoming a climate outlaw by withdrawing from Paris, that target becomes nearly impossible.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-move-makes-already-tough-target-harder-to-hit/2017/06/01/6bbca3f8-4706-11e7-a196-a1bb629f64cb_story.html

[simple1]

Just now, Usernames said:

So they can sell it to other nations?  What is their record on polluting rivers and oceans? Did you know that the biggest sources of pollution in California, Oregon, and Washington state is . . . China?  Did you know that the US has seen an INCREASE in forested lands since 1963, some 42 years before the Paris Treaty?  And that 70 percent of America's originally forested territory remains forested?  What is the record in China, India and Europe, and all those other countries "worried" about climate change?  Not only has Europe decimated its own forests but leads the world in decimating other continents' forests. https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/ForestFactsMetric.pdf

I'm well aware of pollution in China, I'm also aware China is making significant investment to resolve their environmental issues and transition their economy

[Grouse]

57 minutes ago, Usernames said:

The status of forests and the natural environment is a good clue as to who is actually doing the best to protect the environment.  Texas and France are roughly the same size.  Texas, which has a large area that is natural desert, and another large area that is natural plains, is nevertheless covered by forests on 38 percent of its territory.  France, OTOH, is only 29 percent forest covered.  Just who is ravaging the environment.  The two most important carbon sinks on the planet are oceans and forests.  The Chinese and Indians are poisoning the oceans.  And the Europeans have virtually deforested their continent. How about we make that carbon tax dependent on just how much of its own natural environment and forests individual countries have destroyed?

 

"It is estimated that—at the beginning of European settlement—in 1630 the area of forest land that would become the United States was 423 million hectares or about 46 percent of the total land area. By 1907, the area of forest land had declined to an estimated 307 million hectares or 34 percent of the total land area. Forest area has been relatively stable since 1907. In 1997, 302 million hectares— or 33 percent of the total land area of the United States— was in forest land. Today’s forest land area amounts to about 70 percent of the area that was forested in 1630. Since 1630, about 120 million hectares of forest land have been converted to other uses—mainly agricultural. More than 75 percent of the net conversion to other uses occurred in the 19th century."

 

https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/ForestFactsMetric.pdf

Your country is about 250 years old.

 

Europe and Asia have been around for thousands of years

 

Trump has already made the USA a laughing stock. It is now universally hated.

 

y'all have a nice day

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And here's the more pertinent issue that the Post addressed in a related article on the subject:

 

Quote

 

Trump seemed, on Thursday, not to be arguing against the Paris agreement itself, but rather, against the Obama administration’s pledge under that agreement, in which the United States would cut by the year 2025 its emissions by 26 to 28 percent below their 2005 levels.

 

But the agreement does not require a particular level of emissions cuts for a particular country; rather, the United States and any other nation can choose its own level of emissions reductions.

 

“It seems very unnecessary to have to withdraw from the Paris agreement if the concern is focused on the U.S. emissions target and financial contributions,” said Susan Biniaz, who served at the State Department as the United States’ lead climate change lawyer from 1989 until earlier this year. “The U.S. can unilaterally change its emissions target under the agreement — it doesn’t have to ‘renegotiate’ it — and financial contributions are voluntary.”

 

“If the president believes the Paris agreement is a bad deal for the U.S. because our voluntary emission commitments are more stringent than those of other large emitters, the U.S. can reduce the ambition of our domestic policies while still remaining part of the agreement, rather than giving up our seat at the table and undermining U.S. leadership and credibility,” added Jason Bordoff, who heads the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/06/01/trumps-reasons-for-leaving-the-paris-climate-agreement-just-dont-add-up/

Edited June 2, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And here's the more pertinent issue that the Post addressed in a related article on the subject:

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/06/01/trumps-reasons-for-leaving-the-paris-climate-agreement-just-dont-add-up/

If it wasn't so appalling it would be hillarious!

 

Time's up USA, time to move aside and let the grown ups take the lead.

[ToS2014]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I wonder now if Americans are waking up to the enormity of what they have done? If they needed proof there was an idiot at the helm, they surely have it now.

The idiot should have rammed it though the super majority he had and made it binding, believe it was 2009, but other bigger socialist goals hindered that, reference the 'we have to pass it to know what is it the bill' ACA.  I don't recall a whisper when the former POTUS was pulling 'America back' from nearly everything minus additional socialist programs.  I just can't grasp that someone signed off..... that this 'agreement' would PAY China and India billions over the next who knows how many years to do what....oh that's it....develop a green economy.  

[Ramen087]

DT doing what he said he would during the campaign.

He's putting the USA's own interests first, prioritizing jobs in the here and now.

 

The result in the press, and on the ground ---->

When he lives up to a campaign promise, he gets bashed by the lefties.

When he doesn't live up to a campaign promise, he gets bashed by the lefties. 

 

Why would anyone pay attention to what is said, when the result: condemnation,  is always the same from the lefties?

 

The righties do this too. Shows how screwed up the political process, the press, and the representatives throughout the government has become in the USA. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ramen087

[MRYANG]

Trump can't lessen pollution. Only YOU can. Stop buy stuff. Use bicycle. Do you already? Probably not and STILL whining. Sigh.... stupid at best.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

DT doing what he said he would during the campaign.

He's putting the USA's own interests first, prioritizing jobs in the here and now.

 

The result in the press, and on the ground ---->

When he lives up to a campaign promise, he gets bashed by the lefties.

When he doesn't live up to a campaign promise, he gets bashed by the lefties. 

 

Why would anyone pay attention to what is said, when the result: condemnation,  is always the same from the lefties?

 

The righties do this too. Shows how screwed up the political process, the press, and the representatives throughout the government has become in the USA. 

"He's putting the USA's own interests first, prioritizing jobs in the here and now."

Which is exactly what he is not doing here.

[Ramen087]

Just now, stevenl said:

"He's putting the USA's own interests first, prioritizing jobs in the here and now."

Which is exactly what he is not doing here.

I disagree with your assertion. 

 

[jb61]

Lawmakers and activists who criticized the Paris Agreement in 2015 are now calling President Donald Trump “horrible” for moving to eliminate the highly contentious climate accord.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/01/activists-who-initially-trashed-paris-climate-deal-now-mad-at-trumps-paris-dump/

 

“I’m glad that Trump had the fortitude to stick it out despite all the attempts to waylay him,” said Dr. Tim Ball, a retired climatologist at the University of Winnipeg and author of “The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science.”

“He didn’t have to rely on the false science,” Ball told WND and Radio America. “He relied strictly on the economics of it, that it’s a very, very bad deal for the United States. In fact, it’s deliberately designed to punish the United States.”

Ball said the Paris climate accord was simply the latest incarnation of the old Kyoto Protocol from the 1990s that sought to redistribute wealth from the industrial nations. He contends the Green Climate Fund, which is part of the Paris agreement, is the latest effort in that regard.

Ball points out the nonbinding nature of the agreement – which is the only way the deal could be struck – means most nations have not contributed what they’ve pledged to the Green Climate Fund.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/climate-expert-praises-trump-for-pulling-out-of-sham-paris-accord/

 

[Caps]

Allegedly Trump doesn't want the world and world leaders laughing at america, or so he said on his speech  

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Caps

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Caps said:

Allegedly Trump doesn't want the world and world leaders laughing at america, or so he said on his speech  

 

 

Yes, and it was obvious he was talking about the laughing incident in Brussels.

But does he really not get that they were laughing at HIM specifically?

His idiocy, his boorishness, his utter lack of charm, his utterly laughable approach to diplomacy towards free and democratic nations? Compared to his total love of authoritarian leaders.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Jingthing

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, Usernames said:

One man, Obama, made the decision to enroll the US in the Paris Treaty through an Executive Order.  So why can't one man undo it?

Then I extend the question: how is one man able to do that? These issues are too complex, nuanced, and far-reaching for one person to decide for the whole nation - especially when it has consequences for the world. Whatever the process of governance is in the US for matters such as these, it's inadequate.

[simple1]

26 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Then I extend the question: how is one man able to do that? These issues are too complex, nuanced, and far-reaching for one person to decide for the whole nation - especially when it has consequences for the world. Whatever the process of governance is in the US for matters such as these, it's inadequate.

The PA is “non-binding.” In lay terms, the deal makes no changes to a country’s laws, and thus does not require acceptance by domestic legislative bodies to be considered as in effect. As such, the PA does not carry the full force of law, and no U.S. entity is required to undertake any new burdens to comply with it.

Read more: https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/paris-agreement-stay-not-stay/#ixzz4ipFM2atj 
Follow us: @AAF on Twitter

 

Currently I understand it is unclear if the US has formally withdrawn from the  United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which was legally  ratified by the US, upon which the Paris Agreement is based.

Edited June 2, 2017 by simple1

[Ramen087]

http://nypost.com/2017/06/01/in-ditching-paris-deal-trump-does-right-by-america-and-the-world/       Why the decision to leave the Paris Accord makes sense ...

 

Excerpt Below: 

 

In fact, Trump had already abandoned the Paris goals by junking Obama’s Clean Power Plan. Yet he’s not turning back the clock. He’s just saying no to what Obama sought to impose — a rush to a low-carbon America at huge economic cost.

 

Under Paris, as Trump noted, the United States would’ve had to close all its coal plants, even as China builds hundreds more — and coal still generates a third of US electricity.

 

Yet America will continue to cut its carbon emissions: They’re already down by a fifth since 2000, thanks to fracking and the gradual replacement of coal plants with natural-gas ones. That’s better than Europe did as it implemented Kyoto by making electricity cost twice as much as it does here.

 

Nor did Paris make sense. As Danish economist Bjorn Lomborg notes, it entails costs of over $1 trillion a year to shave 0.36 degrees Fahrenheit off global temperatures by 2100 — a tenth the reduction it said is necessary.

 

The better response, Lomborg argues, is massive R&D in non-carbon power — so that humanity needn’t impoverish itself to “save the planet.” As he pursues smart post-Paris policies, Trump ought to boost outlays for “green energy” R&D.

[Rob13]

4 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

 

The better response, Lomborg argues, is massive R&D in non-carbon power

 

and trumps cut that to. So what are you trying to prove? Trump's energy policy-if he actually has one- is moving the US backwards energy wise.

[Gary A]

Environmentalists  oppose hydropower, wind power and even solar power, Heaven forbid that some fish and birds will die. The problem is that you can't have it both ways. You either have to have clean green power or dirty power. Which will it be? Eventually oil and coal will become obsolete. Unfortunately the oil and coal supply will never run out. Some years ago the experts were gloom and doom about peak oil. What happened to that expert forecast? Technology will eventually make the need for fossil fuel disappear.

 

OPEC is curtailing oil production in an effort to push up prices. It is not working because the US producers are more than making up the difference. There will be more serious problems for the Middle East because they can't eat that oil. 

[Ramen087]

Just now, Rob13 said:

 

and trumps cut that to. So what are you trying to prove? Trump's energy policy-if he actually has one- is moving the US backwards energy wise.

Incorrect, the USA is not moving backward.  The USA has plenty of forward looking programs that will continue to exist.  Don't believe the doomsayer hype.  The innovation in the energy sector is not coming to a halt.  There is money to be made in it, and the fundamentals of the market will keep innovators doing their thing.