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[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Well I guess we owe Nixon a big, big apology then.

 

 

As I recall, Nixon was at risk of impeachment for the Watergate break in and lying about it, NOT for ordering an investigation stopped. The tapes didn't help his case.

[Rob13]

13 minutes ago, maewang99 said:

what kind of alpha male is that?

 

Trump isn't alpha, he's just a moron who's daddy left him a pile of money. 

[Thaidream]

Trump is finished- he just doesn't know it yet. Slowly, step by step, the facts and evidence will be known and the media will make sure we all know it.  Someone with inside information will talk-just like they did during Watergate-.  This will take a long time to occur and the Republicans will lose seats in both the House and Senate in 2018.

At some point- Trump may be forced to resign but even if he finishes his term he will never be re-elected again. The American people- those who voted for him- will finally realize that he cannot govern,  His own word will continue to be used against him and he is such a narcissistic meglomaniac- he just can't stop with his tweets.

He will undoubtedly go down in History as the worst President ever elected. Unfortunately, he can still do a lot of damage to America.

[Thakkar]

58 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I recall, Nixon was at risk of impeachment for the Watergate break in and lying about it, NOT for ordering an investigation stopped. The tapes didn't help his case.

 

Nixon's "smoking gun tape" contained two elements that damned any defense he may have had and sealed his fate. This is what made his impeachment a certainty and that's why he resigned prior to the impeachment vote.

 

The tape made clear that:

1. Nixon knew about the break-ins and had tried to cover it up, and

2. That he had personally approved plans to thwart the investigation.

 

The words Nixon used per item (2) above were simply: "Uh-huh" and that was deemed damning enough.

 

Trump was more explicit than "uh-huh" if Comey's quote is correct. FBI post-meetings memos are admissible in court as fact.

[selftaopath]

6 hours ago, tonray said:

The Republicans in Congress simply do not care. They have thrown away every principle on law and order that they have espoused for the past 2 decades  because they are afraid of the Trump voters in 2018. Elections are the only way to remedy this but it will take more than the weak and out of touch Democrats to do it,

I agree with you and hope 45's party is known/remembered for they lack of integrity etc. I don't understand how the Dems are weak however? Granted the electoral college screwed them 2x but they did get 3 million more votes than the lying fat man.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.

[tonray]

43 minutes ago, selftaopath said:

I agree with you and hope 45's party is known/remembered for they lack of integrity etc. I don't understand how the Dems are weak however? Granted the electoral college screwed them 2x but they did get 3 million more votes than the lying fat man.

How many Congressional seats did they gain? 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

I agree with you and hope 45's party is known/remembered for they lack of integrity etc. I don't understand how the Dems are weak however? Granted the electoral college screwed them 2x but they did get 3 million more votes than the lying fat man.

I think Clinton did the democrats a lot of harm and now she has gone they need to regain their credibility. 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   The thread isn't about Clinton.

[baboon]

16 minutes ago, Scott said:

Off-topic posts removed.   The thread isn't about Clinton.

At the risk of breaking forum rules and discussing moderation, who on earth would want to face the job of moderating a Trump thread? I don't envy you...

[Thakkar]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

At the risk of breaking forum rules and discussing moderation, who on earth would want to face the job of moderating a Trump thread? I don't envy you...

Taking the same risk, I'd just add that posters defending Trump by invoking Clinton should helpfully add "deflection" at the end of their posts so moderators could simply search for "deflection" and delete all found posts with one click.

 

It would make their lives so much easier. Won't the posters do it for the moderators, please?

[Scott]

8 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Taking the same risk, I'd just add that posters defending Trump by invoking Clinton should helpfully add "deflection" at the end of their posts so moderators could simply search for "deflection" and delete all found posts with one click.

 

It would make their lives so much easier. Won't the posters do it for the moderators, please?

Thank you for your concern.   There are occasions when comparisons are valid, but deflections never are.  

 

I fear I have opened a bit of Pandora's Box here, so let's try to get back to the topic at hand.  

[boomerangutang]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He also said the Russians didn't change the election outcome ( words to that effect ).

                             That's one man's opinion.  I'm one person and I submit that Russians did change the election outcome - in favor, of course, of the candidate who kisses Putin's butt.   All 17 federal security agencies concluded that Russians seriously meddled in the US election, in favor of Trump.  Are we saying now, that all that effort by the Russians (and Macedonian teenagers who make money by the # of hits they get for publishing fake news), had no effect?  

 

                                        Some fake news disseminators have even come forth to admit they did it, and to assert that Right Wingers were their greatest admirers - because they lapped up every morsel of BS that was shoveled in their faces.  Pizzagate was just a tiny drop in the ocean of vindictive fake news pumped out by the Republicans and their Russian comrades.

 

                      P.S. many people make money on Youtube if they can get 50,000+ hits.  Russkies and former East Bloc punks know this, and make money by putting out fake news.  Their greatest customers are American right wingers, because such people are so eager for dirt on HRC and Dems, that they'll lap up every bit of BS that comes down the sewer tubes.

 

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed that Putin is laughing now. Apparently, going by Comey's own words, the Russians have been running rings around the American security services. Makes one wonder how with all those big computers and all the NSA et al people spying on everyone they managed to miss that the Russians were "meddling" in the election, or if they did notice, were unable to stop it, apparently. Wonder if they'll stop using electronic voting machines now? I guess some harsh words are being said in security head honcho meetings now.

                               People in Obama's administration did notice it.  They made announcements and placed sanctions on the Russian agents.  I agree, they were unable to stop it.  Part of the reason, was the Russian meddling was aided by Americans, many of whom were close to Trump. 

 

                               However, even though Comey/FBI opened a formal case about the election hacking in July '16, they and the Obama administration didn't make much noise about it.   Indeed, Comey didn't even tell Americans that there was an investigation until about 7 months later (after Trump was sworn in) !  Part of the reason:  Obama and Comey didn't want to appear to meddle in the election campaign, for fear it would paint them as unfairly aiding HRC.   Even without Obama's people announcing what they knew to be true, Trump was incessantly yelling; 'IT'S A RIGGED ELECTION!!!' for the final weeks of the campaign. Sickingly, it was rigged, big time - but it was rigged in favor of The Divider.

[Credo]

Any good law enforcement agency is going to be very careful about telling anyone about an investigation.   Comey even stated they were not telling Sessions about certain things in the investigation.   

[Traveler19491]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You make too much of little. It was just an observation that I thought would be interesting to share. As I said, I'm not an expert in body language, so far be it for me to say if he WAS lying.

OTY.

Was he looking "up and to the right" as you were looking at the TV,? Because if so, the image is reversed, in which case he was looking up and to the left, which indicates that he is accessing memory.

[riclag]

 Comey said “It’s my judgment that I was fired because of the Russia investigation,” Comey told the Senate Intelligence Committee during a three-hour hearing broadcast live on every major TV network. “I was fired in some way to change — or the endeavor was to change — the way the Russia investigation was being conducted.”

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-comey-hearing-20170608-story.html

 

It is my opinion he got fired because he wouldn't lift the cloud over the investigation and report that Mr, Trump wasn't being investigated. How easy was it for him to conclude that Clinton wasn't guilty in the Email scandal while telling the Clinton investigation committee at the time that if there was a change in facts he would contact the committee .

But when it came to Mr. Trump he said he couldn't do that and that if evidence changed he would have to go back on his original claim.

 

It's apparent who he had loyalty for.Now I hope we can get somethings done for the people. They are sick of hearing about this and want jobs,lower taxes and a better economy.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by riclag

[Thaidream]

Don't forget we also have a new leaker from the NSA who found an internal NSA memo indicating that there was an attempt to penetrate the actual voting machines during the election. It that is indeed true and was done- that does change the election figures. All they had to do was concentrate on the 4-5 States that put Trump over the count in the electoral votes and they will have elected the President they wanted. If this actually happened, the election has been compromised and Trump has not been elected fairly.

 

There is a lot more to the hacker investigations/Russian connection that is out there and not public yet.

 

People may complain about the media/press- but let's remember that many of the political abuses we have seen in the past have been unearthed by a free news media .

[darksidedog]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

People may complain about the media/press- but let's remember that many of the political abuses we have seen in the past have been unearthed by a free news media .

Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein spring to mid with Watergate. These days their work would probably get branded fake news though and the Trump minions would soak it up..

Edited June 9, 2017 by darksidedog

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Comey said “It’s my judgment that I was fired because of the Russia investigation,” Comey told the Senate Intelligence Committee during a three-hour hearing broadcast live on every major TV network. “I was fired in some way to change — or the endeavor was to change — the way the Russia investigation was being conducted.”

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-comey-hearing-20170608-story.html

 

It is my opinion he got fired because he wouldn't lift the cloud over the investigation and report that Mr, Trump wasn't being investigated. How easy was it for him to conclude that Clinton wasn't guilty in the Email scandal while telling the Clinton investigation committee at the time that if there was a change in facts he would contact the committee .

But when it came to Mr. Trump he said he couldn't do that and that if evidence changed he would have to go back on his original claim.

 

It's apparent who he had loyalty for.Now I hope we can get somethings done for the people. They are sick of hearing about this and want jobs,lower taxes and a better economy.

 

 

Because in the case of Trump, the investigation wasn't even close to conclusion. And even though he wasn't currently a target, doesn't mean in the future that he couldn't be. 

[riclag]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Don't forget we also have a new leaker from the NSA who found an internal NSA memo indicating that there was an attempt to penetrate the actual voting machines during the election. It that is indeed true and was done- that does change the election figures. All they had to do was concentrate on the 4-5 States that put Trump over the count in the electoral votes and they will have elected the President they wanted. If this actually happened, the election has been compromised and Trump has not been elected fairly.

 

There is a lot more to the hacker investigations/Russian connection that is out there and not public yet.

 

People may complain about the media/press- but let's remember that many of the political abuses we have seen in the past have been unearthed by a free news media .

It was a attempt.It was never proven . It  has been reported that there is no  tampering that changed the vote according to 3 intel agencies.

 

The attempt wasn't successful .Department of Homeland Security, assessment reported reassuringly, “the types of systems we observed Russian actors targeting or compromising are not involved in vote tallying.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/opinions/russia-role-shocking-but-not-hacked-douglas/index.html

[Traveler19491]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

It was a attempt.It was never proven . It  has been reported that there is no  tampering that changed the vote according to 3 intel agencies.

 

The attempt wasn't successful .Department of Homeland Security, assessment reported reassuringly, “the types of systems we observed Russian actors targeting or compromising are not involved in vote tallying.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/opinions/russia-role-shocking-but-not-hacked-douglas/index.html

Interesting that those who support Trump trust a government report on this issue because it helps their argument that Trump "won" legitimately, but whatever comes out of D. C. that is not favorable to Trump is "fake news". Odd.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, tonray said:

What is abundantly clear is that as American voters we can no longer rely on the protections of the checks and balances of government. I think this would be true no matter which party if in power. It is a sad situation but I believe our Democracy is lost.

 

Making people think along these lines is, IMO, a large part of what the Russian interventions are all about.
 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Morch

[Morch]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed that Putin is laughing now. Apparently, going by Comey's own words, the Russians have been running rings around the American security services. Makes one wonder how with all those big computers and all the NSA et al people spying on everyone they managed to miss that the Russians were "meddling" in the election, or if they did notice, were unable to stop it, apparently.

Wonder if they'll stop using electronic voting machines now?

 

I guess some harsh words are being said in security head honcho meetings now.

 

Or perhaps the "spying on everyone" was never quite as we were told by Snowden, live from Russia. Or just maybe, civil rights are still a thing in the US, and the Russian activities were walking a fine line, up to a point. But again, the above can be another line from Putin's talking points.

[Thakkar]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

11 hours ago, tonray said:

What is abundantly clear is that as American voters we can no longer rely on the protections of the checks and balances of government. I think this would be true no matter which party if in power. It is a sad situation but I believe our Democracy is lost.

 

Making people think along these lines is, IMO, a large part of what the Russian interventions are all about.

Agreed. 

Either by design or buffoonery, Trump is doing Putin's work of creating confusion and chaos and sowing distrust in democratic institutions so that Putin can point to it all and tell his citizens that they shouldn't be clamoring for that kind of chaos.

 

yes, Democracy is messy. But it's better than the alternative.

[attrayant]

We didn't really need any more evidence that Trump lives on a different planet from the rest of us, but here it is anyway.

 

Tomorrow's NY Times headline:

 

 

Trump's tweet:

 

[Thakkar]

While we were watching the Comey hearing, Republicans inside the Capitol were busy killing off Dodd-Frank:

( http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/08/house-has-votes-to-pass-choice-act-that-would-gut-dodd-frank-banking-reforms.html )

 

The House of Representatives pushed through a bill Thursday that would gut many of the key banking reforms implemented after the financial crisis.

 

In a primarily partisan vote, the House passed the Financial Creating Hope and Opportunity for Investors, Consumers and Entrepreneurs Act, a highly controversial measure that stands virtually no chance to pass the Senate.

 

Among the most significant provisions are measures that allow banks to escape heightened regulatory requirements and cut stress tests back from their current annual schedule, while the bill also eviscerates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

 

Some wit has dubbed this bill "Let's let the bankers steal what's left act of 2017"

 

Meanwhile the Senate, is rushing through their healthcare bill that will give tax cuts to the rich by saving money on healthcare for the rest.

[Traveler19491]

2 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Yes the same man and his fib that couldn't find anything on Clinton. From an unsecured email,server to the maid answering emails. Clinton belongs in jail.

Wow, you people really are nothing more than one-trick ponies. Clinton is all you got, so you have to forever circle back to her. Here's a little newsflash...this thread isn't about Clinton. Do try to keep up.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

The thread isn't about Clinton.   It's deflection and it's trolling.  

[boomerangutang]

15 hours ago, Credo said:

Any good law enforcement agency is going to be very careful about telling anyone about an investigation.   Comey even stated they were not telling Sessions about certain things in the investigation.   

What Comey alluded to, but didn't say directly, was that he didn't trust Sessions with sensitive info re; Session's bosom buddy Trump.  In sum, the FBI had to keep secrets from Justice Dept because they didn't trust 'em.   Those are the sorts of dynamics Americans get when they elect a severely flawed person to be prez.

 

13 hours ago, riclag said:

It was a attempt.It was never proven . It  has been reported that there is no  tampering that changed the vote according to 3 intel agencies.

The attempt wasn't successful .Department of Homeland Security, assessment reported reassuringly, “the types of systems we observed Russian actors targeting or compromising are not involved in vote tallying.”

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/opinions/russia-role-shocking-but-not-hacked-douglas/index.html

How can anyone assert that Russian/Trumpster collusion in the campaign didn't affect votes?!?

 

Individuals vote.  Not all the security agencies in the world, nor all the soothsayers, politicians, poll-takers, .... can peer inside individuals' brains to gauge what they were thinking on election day.

[boomerangutang]

9 hours ago, Traveler19491 said:

Wow, you people really are nothing more than one-trick ponies. Clinton is all you got, so you have to forever circle back to her. Here's a little newsflash...this thread isn't about Clinton. Do try to keep up.

                             We've got a lot more than Ms Clinton.  Here are some other names;  Warren, Sanders, Maxine Walters, Jill Stein, Adam Schiff, to name just a few of the capable, intelligent, compassionate people who are miles better than Trump.  There are a slew of Congresspeople who are gaining respect - while Trump is losing respect, day by day.

 

And there's a new political party called Justice Democrats which is gaining momentum, while Republicans are losing ground.  Google 'em.