One-quarter of U.S. F-35 fighter jets grounded over oxygen issues

[webfact]

One-quarter of F-35 fighter jets grounded over oxygen issues

By Mike Stone

 

FILE PHOTO - The fourth U.S. Air Force F-35A Lightning II aircraft arrives at the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada in this April 24, 2013 photo released on May 8, 2013. Picture taken April 24, 2013. Daniel Hughes/U.S. Air Force/Handout via Reuters

 

(Reuters) - About a quarter of the F-35 fighter jets made by Lockheed Martin Corp, or 55 planes, have stopped flying until further notice because of irregularities in pilots' oxygen supplies, U.S. Air Force spokesman Captain Mark Graff said on Monday.

 

Training flights at Arizona's Luke Air Force Base, where the 55 jets are based, were cancelled on Friday and scheduled to resume on Monday, but the grounding was extended indefinitely. More than 220 F-35s are flying worldwide.

 

The grounding comes at a critical time for Lockheed, which plans to demonstrate the advanced jet at the Paris Air Show next week. F-35 air operations at other bases continued, U.S. Air Force officials said.

 

The F-35 business accounts for about 37 percent of Lockheed's total revenue. During the first quarter, Lockheed's revenue from its aeronautics business increased 8 percent to $4.11 billion (3.24 billion pounds), led by higher sales of the F-35.

 

Luke Air Force Base, located northwest of Phoenix, is home to the 56th Fighter Wing. The base cancelled local flying operations for its F-35A Lightning II aircraft due to five incidents in which pilots experienced symptoms resembling hypoxia, or oxygen deprivation, Graff said on Friday at the Pentagon.

 

The Air Force said the incidents occurred from May 2 to Thursday, and that in each case the aircraft's backup oxygen system worked as designed and the jets were able to land safely. The base's F-35A Lightning II's typically fly 25 training missions each weekday, base officials said.

 

The halt in flights at Luke Air Force Base was extended so the Air Force could study the issue with pilots, maintenance workers and medical professionals, said Major Rebecca Heyse, a base spokeswoman.

 

Luke is the largest F-35 base in the world and trains U.S. pilots as well as those of allied countries.

 

A Lockheed representative said the company would help the Air Force address the issue. Lockheed and its main partners, Northrop Grumman Corp, United Technologies Corp's Pratt & Whitney and BAE Systems Plc, have been developing and building F-35s for the U.S. military and 10 allies.

 

The 220 F-35s around the world have collectively flown more than 95,000 flight hours, though the plane has not yet seen combat.

 

(Reporting by Mike Stone; editing by Chris Sanders and G Crosse)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-06-13

[gk10002000]

they have been having issues with various parts of the oxygen system for many years.  The JSF is a boondoggle.  They tried to make the plane do so much, that it does most things less than well.  And the USA and Lockheed are hoping to sell tons of them to foreign military sales.  But many countries have or will back out or reduce their involvement.  The thing is just too expensive and glitchy

[Dustdevil]

F-22 Raptor is the way to go.

[alanrchase]

F-22 Raptor is the way to go.

The F22 suffers from similar oxygen problems as does the F18.

[Kasset Tak]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

they have been having issues with various parts of the oxygen system for many years.  The JSF is a boondoggle.  They tried to make the plane do so much, that it does most things less than well.  And the USA and Lockheed are hoping to sell tons of them to foreign military sales.  But many countries have or will back out or reduce their involvement.  The thing is just too expensive and glitchy

Yes, why spend all this money on a plane that is OK for doing everything but not great for doing anything?!
More expensive than competitors.
Slower than competitors.

An so on!

[kamahele]

8 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Yes, why spend all this money on a plane that is OK for doing everything but not great for doing anything?!
More expensive than competitors.
Slower than competitors.

An so on!

The industrial military establishment has very powerful allies on capital hill. They also spread the work out over as many states as possible making it near impossible for the representatives in those states to vote against a project which brings jobs to their state. The military did not want this aircraft but they have it anyway. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

Seems to be problems with the OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generating System)

 

Older aircraft used GOX (Gaseous Oxygen) charged into aircraft storage bottles from ground cylinders.

 

Then came LOX (Liquid Oxygen) systems in which LOX was charged in an aircraft storage vessel from a ground rig. Passed through a converter to give oxygen gas for the crew this was a lighter system with extended duration.

 

Now we have OBOGS which makes oxygen gas for aircrew breathing extracted from outside air. No need for ground support. But, being new it will start to show any inherent faults during service and the feedback will lead to modifications.

 

There is always a separate emergency back up system but it is not usual to continue to fly without both serviceable. Most of the groundings will have been precautionary after problems on several aircraft.

 

I worked on and maintenance managed military aircraft all my working life so it's no big deal unless the media make it so.

 

https://aerocontent.honeywell.com/aero/common/documents/myaerospacecatalog-documents/Defense_Brochures-documents/Life_Support_Systems.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Seems to be problems with the OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generating System)

 

Older aircraft used GOX (Gaseous Oxygen) charged into aircraft storage bottles from ground cylinders.

 

Then came LOX (Liquid Oxygen) systems in which LOX was charged in an aircraft storage vessel from a ground rig. Passed through a converter to give oxygen gas for the crew this was a lighter system with extended duration.

 

Now we have OBOGS which makes oxygen gas for aircrew breathing extracted from outside air. No need for ground support. But, being new it will start to show any inherent faults during service and the feedback will lead to modifications.

 

There is always a separate emergency back up system but it is not usual to continue to fly without both serviceable. Most of the groundings will have been precautionary after problems on several aircraft.

 

I worked on and maintenance managed military aircraft all my working life so it's no big deal unless the media make it so.

 

https://aerocontent.honeywell.com/aero/common/documents/myaerospacecatalog-documents/Defense_Brochures-documents/Life_Support_Systems.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Are you sure you're in the correct forum? You sound as though you know what you're talking about.

[stevenl]

One fourth of the planes grounded sounds like a big deal to me.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Are you sure you're in the correct forum? You sound as though you know what you're talking about.

 

Yes he does.

 

He is ex RAF ground crew as I am and a few others on the forum as well.

 

Whilst we are retired the memories and the training only fade a little.

 

Great times.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Seems to be problems with the OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generating System)

 

Older aircraft used GOX (Gaseous Oxygen) charged into aircraft storage bottles from ground cylinders.

 

Then came LOX (Liquid Oxygen) systems in which LOX was charged in an aircraft storage vessel from a ground rig. Passed through a converter to give oxygen gas for the crew this was a lighter system with extended duration.

 

Now we have OBOGS which makes oxygen gas for aircrew breathing extracted from outside air. No need for ground support. But, being new it will start to show any inherent faults during service and the feedback will lead to modifications.

 

There is always a separate emergency back up system but it is not usual to continue to fly without both serviceable. Most of the groundings will have been precautionary after problems on several aircraft.

 

I worked on and maintenance managed military aircraft all my working life so it's no big deal unless the media make it so.

 

https://aerocontent.honeywell.com/aero/common/documents/myaerospacecatalog-documents/Defense_Brochures-documents/Life_Support_Systems.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Do you or Bild766 have any idea how much it would cost per jet to fix the problem?

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you or Bild766 have any idea how much it would cost per jet to fix the problem?

 

I have no idea. The problem is that new technology has a wide budget and as with all new technology it is expensive.

 

I Googled OBOGS and there is some interesting information there including  report by a USN F18 WSO, Weapons System Operator.. 

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8997/a-hornet-weapon-systems-officers-view-of-the-navys-suffocating-jet-crews

[Stargeezr]

Jus make this overpriced fighter into a drone. No Human, no oxygen needed. After all it only costs over a billion per jet, so cancel the human element.   Simple fix!

Geezer

[thaibeachlovers]

Dependent entirely on computers ( so I believe from the blurb on tv ) to do anything. Potential problem in the making?

Seems the designers have forgotten "keep it simple" and Murphy's law. Like any computer, it's only one glitch away from becoming an expensive piece of junk.

Of course, like every boondoggle, it costs way more than supposed to.

Stargrazer has the right idea .

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I have no idea. The problem is that new technology has a wide budget and as with all new technology it is expensive.

 

I Googled OBOGS and there is some interesting information there including  report by a USN F18 WSO, Weapons System Operator.. 

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8997/a-hornet-weapon-systems-officers-view-of-the-navys-suffocating-jet-crews

Very interesting, but more worrying is the linked article http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3776/the-usafs-pilot-shortage-has-reached-disastrous-levels.

Also, other interesting linked articles.

It doesn't matter how brilliant the 35 is if they haven't got enough pilots to fly the thing.

[gk10002000]

LOX was used on many aircraft even going back to the vietnam war.  The B 58 hustler used it also.  Recently took a tour on the USS Midway down in San Diego.  They had a very large on board liquid oxygen generating station.  And it was right near the aviation fuel.  Very dangerous as the two things together are basically what is used in many liquid rockets over the years, although they typically used Kerosene (apollo) and not aviation gas.  Pulling Oxygen out of the air is intended to save weight and space, lower maintenance, very little if any ground support since you don't need cannisters of oxygen or Lox or Lox machinery.  The concept is not new and has been used on many fielded aircraft, b1b, b2b,  No idea what the actual issues have been with the F-35. In previous years I recall articles about material or hose problems.

[alanrchase]

LOX was used on many aircraft even going back to the vietnam war.  The B 58 hustler used it also.  Recently took a tour on the USS Midway down in San Diego.  They had a very large on board liquid oxygen generating station.  And it was right near the aviation fuel.  Very dangerous as the two things together are basically what is used in many liquid rockets over the years, although they typically used Kerosene (apollo) and not aviation gas.  Pulling Oxygen out of the air is intended to save weight and space, lower maintenance, very little if any ground support since you don't need cannisters of oxygen or Lox or Lox machinery.  The concept is not new and has been used on many fielded aircraft, b1b, b2b,  No idea what the actual issues have been with the F-35. In previous years I recall articles about material or hose problems.

As has been pointed out newer aircraft now use OBOGS not LOX. The aircraft basically generates the oxygen used by the aircrew. When working it is a great idea, no need to have a LOX plant on the ship. Unfortunately they seem to be having issues with the system.

[billd766]

Having read the comments so far, all I can say is

 

 

A mate sent it to me and I thought it was quite appropriate for this thread.

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by billd766
Added extra text