One-way fire escapes. Can it be legal?

[TonyClifton]

I live in a Bangkok 30+ floor highrise.  Other than the elevators, there is a central stairway that is open, and two additional fire escapes.  The two fire escapes have locking doors on each floor.  You can get into the stairwell but the doors on each floor close automatically and lock behind you.  The only way out of the stairway is to descend 30+ floors.

 

Can this possibly be legal even in Thailand?  I have often wondered about this but after the London fire, I want an answer.

[saakura]

If there is a fire, the best way is to run down the stairs through the fire escape, not go inside and take the lifts. You would take the fire escape closest to you, either the central stairwell or the side fire escapes. These fire doors open only to the outside in order to provide security to residents.

[TonyClifton]

Entering on the 30th floor, and finding the 24th floor burning inside the escape, to where will I escape?

[pcliff069]

Entering on the 30th floor, and finding the 24th floor burning inside the escape, to where will I escape?

All modern buildings have automated door locking. In the event of a fire the first thing security would do would unlock these doors. If there was fire in the stairwell there will be a lot of smoke so I would not enter the stairwell. If this was the case I would be staying my prayers. In all likelihood you have reached the end of your life.

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[chickenslegs]

26 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Entering on the 30th floor, and finding the 24th floor burning inside the escape, to where will I escape?

 

That's a very good question. But, if there is nothing flammable inside the stairwell, and all the doors are closed, how could there be a fire inside?

Edited June 16, 2017 by chickenslegs

[pcliff069]

 
That's a very good question. But, if there is nothing flammable inside the stairwell, and all the doors are closed, how could there be a fire inside?

The stairwell is the safest place in the building. If it is on fire as I said.

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[NancyL]

We're in a large 17 story building in Chiang Mai.  There is an open central stairway to the lobby and what should be closed stairways on each end of the building, but the doors are kept open for ventilation.  I never see them closed.  What most residents don't realize is the the stairways on the ends don't go all the way down to the lobby.  They stop on the 5th floor and people are expected to find their way to the central stairway to complete their descent.  

 

The one "saving grace" is that the parking garage is floors 1 - 4 and has a bigger footprint than the rest of the building, so most of the units on the 5th floor have a very large ledge outside their windows and a balcony jump off a 5th floor unit in our building will result in a twisted ankle at best.  The ledge outside our windows is big enough that we could have a major patio on top of the parking garage, but Hubby has nixed that idea.

 

I've often wondered if the Chiang Mai fire brigade has ladders tall enough to reach the 5th floor.  Also, the advice about keeping your apartment door closed during a fire probably is going to be difficult, because we're next to the termination of one of the end stairs and will hear all the surprised people coming down and discovering they're not in the lobby but in the hall of the 5th floor.  As it is now, we deal with this during power outages when people decide to use the stairs to get to the lobby.  During a fire, we're simply going to have to let people get out to the roof of the parking structure via our condo windows.

[TonyClifton]

 
That's a very good question. But, if there is nothing flammable inside the stairwell, and all the doors are closed, how could there be a fire inside?

It's hard to believe that I have to spell this out but how about an earthquake. Or perhaps an explosion something that makes it impossible to descend further only to find that there's no way to go back because the doors closed behind you

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[TonyClifton]

All modern buildings have automated door locking. In the event of a fire the first thing security would do would unlock these doors. If there was fire in the stairwell there will be a lot of smoke so I would not enter the stairwell. If this was the case I would be staying my prayers. In all likelihood you have reached the end of your life.

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There are no automatic mechanisms on these doors only a spring. When the doors closed they're locked until somebody on the other side opens them

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[Jdietz]

Which is exactly what you want. These doors are pretty fire resistant and should provide enough time to descent safely. Open they are no use.

Open the door on your floor, if you don't choke in a thick cloud, the fire hasn't burned through the doors yet. Make your escape smartly.

Take a wet woolen blanket if you can.

 

[Kwasaki]

Can't you read the sign  " In case of fire jump off baloney. ".   

[Mrjlh]

Designed that way. Prevents you from reentering the building on a  floor with "fire".  Also for security.  Fireman should have the access key if not it's an axe.

 

[TonyClifton]

I suppose that I amazed more by the fact that no one asked for clarification.  You all just assumed.  And you're all wrong.

 

There is no keyhole on the doors.  There is no door knob to open the door from the inside.  There is only a breaker bar in the hallway to open the door, after it closes, you will be met with closed doors all the way down and no way to open them.

 

Is that clear enough?

[Mrjlh]

Like I said...they use an AXE if needed and a prey bar.  Have a picture of it?  Bet on the stairwell side there a small metal plate covers the door latch and the part of the door jam. Knock that off he'll get in.  If a fireman needs to gain access he will one way or the other.

[chickenslegs]

8 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

I suppose that I amazed more by the fact that no one asked for clarification.  You all just assumed.  And you're all wrong.

 

There is no keyhole on the doors.  There is no door knob to open the door from the inside.  There is only a breaker bar in the hallway to open the door, after it closes, you will be met with closed doors all the way down and no way to open them.

 

Is that clear enough?

Getting snarky with the people who have joined the conversation will not improve your situation.

 

From what you have described, there seems to be a potentially dangerous situation which has been overlooked (maybe too much consideration given to security issues and not enough to safety).

 

What you should be doing is speaking to the building manager, the fire service or the local authority.

[TonyClifton]

1 minute ago, chickenslegs said:

Getting snarky with the people who have joined the conversation will not improve your situation.

 

From what you have described, there seems to be a potentially dangerous situation which has been overlooked (maybe too much consideration given to security issues and not enough to safety).

 

What you should be doing is speaking to the building manager, the fire service or the local authority.

Finally, someone who is thinking.  Thank you.  

 

Building management here, are too corrupt and too stupid to understand.  Not so sure about a local authority but you may have something with the fire service or fire marshall.  I'm inclined to report them.  As there are three buildings all designed the same way, it will be a very costly job to retrofit these doors.  I don't care.  

 

Is there a fire marshall here in Bangkok where complaints can be filed?

[TonyClifton]

4 hours ago, pcliff069 said:

All modern buildings have automated door locking. 

 

 

All of them huh?  I had a business professor at a university who loved to quote: "there are no absolutes."  I'd love you to meet him.  

[chickenslegs]

12 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Finally, someone who is thinking.  Thank you.  

 

Building management here, are too corrupt and too stupid to understand.  Not so sure about a local authority but you may have something with the fire service or fire marshall.  I'm inclined to report them.  As there are three buildings all designed the same way, it will be a very costly job to retrofit these doors.  I don't care.  

 

Is there a fire marshall here in Bangkok where complaints can be filed?

Fire Dept is part of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) - start there.

http://www.bangkok.go.th/main/page.php?&328&l=en

[ben2talk]

14 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Finally, someone who is thinking.  Thank you.  

 

Building management here, are too corrupt and too stupid to understand.  Not so sure about a local authority but you may have something with the fire service or fire marshall.  I'm inclined to report them.  As there are three buildings all designed the same way, it will be a very costly job to retrofit these doors.  I don't care.  

 

Is there a fire marshall here in Bangkok where complaints can be filed?

Have you considered buying a parachute?

 

All of them huh?  I had a business professor at a university who loved to quote: "there are no absolutes."  I'd love you to meet him.  

Absolutely.

Edited June 16, 2017 by ben2talk

[ben2talk]

9 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by ben2talk
can't find the nuke button

[Mrjlh]

Bet they look like this except it's only one door.  Then they knock off the hinges to get in IF they need to. The whole point of all the answers given... YES they are legal.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Mrjlh
Add photo.

[TonyClifton]

Just now, Mrjlh said:

Bet they look like this except it's only one door.  Then they knock off the hinges to get in IF they need to. The whole point of all the answers given... YES they are legal.

 

 

You tire me.  Try reading what I wrote.  

[NanLaew]

Sounds like the OP has stumbled across a properly functioning fire escape door system. Back in the real world, fire doors are marked and designed as such, have push bars on the inside so you can open the door and exit into the safety of the stairwell whereupon the door closes and latches behind you to stop you potentially entering a fire. Then you descend all the way to the clearly signposted emergency exit.

 

Personally, the first time I came to Thailand, I was amazed at all the fire doors in Central Chitlom that were unlatched and used for people to come and go. Still see it in modern shopping malls and plazas. Maybe the OP has gotten used to just another aspect of 'Thailand normal' where things look like they do in the west but aren't. Like zebra crossings for example.

[bobbin]

I have a feeling that fire escape systems and stairwells are going to be well discussed over the next few weeks..

[TonyClifton]

16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Sounds like the OP has stumbled across a properly functioning fire escape door system. Back in the real world, fire doors are marked and designed as such, have push bars on the inside so you can open the door and exit into the safety of the stairwell whereupon the door closes and latches behind you to stop you potentially entering a fire. Then you descend all the way to the clearly signposted emergency exit.

 

Personally, the first time I came to Thailand, I was amazed at all the fire doors in Central Chitlom that were unlatched and used for people to come and go. Still see it in modern shopping malls and plazas. Maybe the OP has gotten used to just another aspect of 'Thailand normal' where things look like they do in the west but aren't. Like zebra crossings for example.

2

I don't understand the confusion about locking doors.  In the USA all fire escapes allow you to exit the stairwell to any floor.  It's only the ground floor door to the outside that is locked.

 

Try thinking beyond your limitations.  Think earthquake.  You get to floor 3 and the stairwell is no longer there.  Now, what do you do?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

 

That's a very good question. But, if there is nothing flammable inside the stairwell, and all the doors are closed, how could there be a fire inside?

There was smoke in the London building fire stairwell, I believe.

No doubt the inquiry will answer as to why that happened.

 

As part of my nurse training we had to do fire training, and they used an Australian training film. In the film, fire came up the laundry chute and caused a fire in the ward that trapped a nurse. The advice given if in the position of getting burnt alive was to breath the smoke and be rendered unconscious before burning!

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

I don't understand the confusion about locking doors.  In the USA all fire escapes allow you to exit the stairwell to any floor.  It's only the ground floor door to the outside that is locked.

 

Try thinking beyond your limitations.  Think earthquake.  You get to floor 3 and the stairwell is no longer there.  Now, what do you do?

If an earthquake is bad enough to destroy the stairwell you are probably toast anyway. I have been in a multi story hospital building during a severe earthquake. It broke the boiler chimney but did no damage to the building. The entire building swayed so much we could not move during the quake.

They design fire stairwells for fires, not every possibility including asteroids hitting your building.

[thaibeachlovers]

Being able to exit the fire door is a plus. In some cases, as in the Pattaya hotel death fire, fire doors are chained and locked to prevent people coming in. Now that really is a criminal act.

[TonyClifton]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If an earthquake is bad enough to destroy the stairwell you are probably toast anyway. I have been in a multi story hospital building during a severe earthquake. It broke the boiler chimney but did no damage to the building. The entire building swayed so much we could not move during the quake.

They design fire stairwells for fires, not every possibility including asteroids hitting your building.

You're not addressing my original question.  Is it legal as it is?  If you exit the building and find you cannot descend lower than floor 4, then you could easily exit the stairwell and try the stairwell in the middle or at the other end.

 

In this case, you are stuck.  

[NanLaew]

19 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

In the USA all fire escapes allow you to exit the stairwell to any floor.

Nope.

 

Mate of mine came to work in the Houston office and was given work space on the floor below. He was frequently nipping up and down and someone commented how quick he was since the elevators were typically slow. A few days later, the building manager visited our boss visibly irate and pointed out that our mate had been snibbing the latches on the fire doors with tape on both levels so he could quickly use the emergency stair well otherwise they latch shut with no actuating bars on the stairwell side. This was apparently a violation of city fire codes.

Edited June 16, 2017 by NanLaew