One-way fire escapes. Can it be legal?

[blackcab]

58 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

How amazing is it that no one has come forward to say that they have seen this setup in Thailand or that this is how their building is setup.  

 

I know of very recently finished 30+ floor towers in Bangkok that use the exact same system you describe (crash bar on the inside, door closes using a spring, once closed there is no access back). This system is an approved system in Thailand and will ensure the building passes it's annual fire safety inspection.

 

For posters who want to know how the fire brigade gains entry through the locked door - they have a set of FB keys suitable for Thailand.

[samtam]

41 minutes ago, RBOP said:

My 2 condo buildings are set up this way.

Mine too. Just been having all the doors re-checked, that they do close and the latch "locks" the door from the outside, (once inside the stairwell). I understand the OP's concern, but this system is legal in Thailand, and if it implemented correctly, (viz all doors lock closed), then the fire exit via the stairwell is safe from fire by virtue of the 2 hour metal doors. That is how the system is designed. Our stairwell is used by security on their daily checks of each floor, and by maids on their daily cleaning. any abuse of this system by them, (such as jamming open the door with paper in the lock), nullifies the whole fire prevention system (all 37 stories), of the building.

[digbeth]

Making the door lock behind you means that security could be compromised as the stairway might not be monitored by cctv, and in case where the building has access controls that is enforced at the lifts, people could use the staircase to roam around the floors unhindered. Some buildings might even have the staircase access on the ground floor from the outside on the street that could be used by burglar even.

 

If being locked in the staircase is of a concern to you, a better system is to make an alarmed door

[digbeth]

At my condo, we have the same kinds of doors with the crash bar outside but the stairs doors can be opened from the inside, and they put the floor's garbage collection in the staircase, making the housekeepers go around and collect them. This resulted in being most of the doors are left ajar, with the closer made weak or jammed open, in a case of fire, the fire and smoke would travel up the staircase making it useless.

 

At least we have another set of stairs that is not used this way and is hopefully kept closed, which I always remind the wife to use the other stair in case of fire.

[TonyClifton]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

I know of very recently finished 30+ floor towers in Bangkok that use the exact same system you describe (crash bar on the inside, door closes using a spring, once closed there is no access back). This system is an approved system in Thailand and will ensure the building passes it's annual fire safety inspection.

 

For posters who want to know how the fire brigade gains entry through the locked door - they have a set of FB keys suitable for Thailand.

There is no keyhole.  No door knob.  The door swings inward towards the stairs.  It's metal.  So forget about your ax and breaking it down.  When it closes, you are trapped in the stairwell hoping the ground floor will allow you to exit.

[NanLaew]

On 6/17/2017 at 7:21 AM, TonyClifton said:

How amazing is it that no one has come forward to say that they have seen this setup in Thailand or that this is how their building is setup.  

Perhaps because doing the fire door thing the right way is fairly new concept in a land where a secure fire door and fire escape is an unknown concept? What you may have observed previously over many years lurking in many stair wells in many buildings in Thailand is the 'norm' which isn't necessarily correct and definitely isn't safe.

 

On 6/17/2017 at 7:38 AM, TonyClifton said:

Seriously? I was very clear in my writing that the door closes behind you.  What would be the purpose of locking it?  And no, in the USA you can enter or leave on any floor other than the door to the outside.

As I mentioned earlier from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE working in offices in the US, forcing the latching mechanism of a designated, one-way fire door so that the door allows ingress and egress is a violation of fire ordinances. If a door to a stairwell has the ability to be opened from both sides, it is not a fire door and the stair well is not designated as a primary escape route.

 

Do a quick google search of 'stairwell fire door requirements' and it will all become clear to you.

 

If a steel door latch is actuated by a 'panic bar' on the inside and has no means of unlatching or opening from the stairwell side and opens outwards into a stairwell, it is a designated fire door and the stair well is a designated fire escape.

[NanLaew]

On 6/17/2017 at 0:47 PM, TonyClifton said:

There is no keyhole.  No door knob.  The door swings inward towards the stairs.  It's metal.  So forget about your ax and breaking it down.  When it closes, you are trapped in the stairwell hoping the ground floor will allow you to exit.

Are you claustrophobic by any chance? All this talk of being 'trapped' in a stairwell. How about being 'trapped' in a smoke filled room because some twerp pinned a fire door open and the air fed the flames of a fire on a different floor from yours? 

 

You can always go up to the helideck.

 

You DO have a helideck don't you?

[NanLaew]

Read this Tony.

[gk10002000]

I saw a simiilar thing in the USA years ago.  The hotel that was near the LA Forum in Inglewood California.  I was on the 10th floor or so and decided just to walk down.  I went in the exit and saw a sign door locks behind you.  No worries I thought, I am going down.  On the way down I checked each floor's door and each one was locked.  I wasn't worried at the time because I wanted to walk down anyway.  When I got to the bottom floor, the door was alarmed!  Opening the door would trigger the fire alarm! Oh well. Sorry.  So I opened the door, the alarm went off.  I started walking to the front desk to tell them what happened.  A guy came running around the corner to see what was going on.  I told him what had happened and he didn't care.  He was more worried about people breaking in, or leaving the hotel without paying etc. 

[gk10002000]

On 6/17/2017 at 7:28 AM, digbeth said:

Making the door lock behind you means that security could be compromised as the stairway might not be monitored by cctv, and in case where the building has access controls that is enforced at the lifts, people could use the staircase to roam around the floors unhindered. Some buildings might even have the staircase access on the ground floor from the outside on the street that could be used by burglar even.

 

If being locked in the staircase is of a concern to you, a better system is to make an alarmed door

yeah, but this concern about theft, non paying guests, or whatever should Never trump fire safety concerns.  Just take a casual look at the all the nightclub and disco club fires in Thailand and other places where more people died because exit doors were locked, didn't work, were blocked etc.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/17/2017 at 1:19 PM, seancbk said:

 

I can't believe you've never seen this type of fire safety door before.  

The idea is you only go through that door in the case of a fire, and then you descend to the ground floor where you exit the building.
 

 

A bigger/worse problem than the one the OP is raising, and this has happened here at times, is people go down the fire escape stairwell to the ground floor and then find that the ground floor exit door has been improperly locked or chained by someone as a security measure, and then they can't get out at all.

Edited June 18, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

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Edited June 18, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK