London/Finsbury Park: 'Several hurt' as vehicle hits pedestrians

[overherebc]

59 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

It's not about 'the clash of religious beliefs and ideas' - it's not, at root, about culture at all, though ISIS may have declared it so.A deeper understanding (because nobody ever really understands themselves - that's why we have psychoanalysis) is that it's about one side (the Muslims) kicking back because they are being humiliated on an international human rights issue in one place in particular (Palestine) - and that bitterness has spread into other realms. It's perfectly understandable. This latest event is the British kicking back against the kicking back - that too is perfectly understandable. The solution though can only take place in the Middle East.

 

A world without religion would be a far more dangerous place - in fact, given human nature, it's practically impossible. Atheism is fine for the intellectuals, but the masses need religion to keep them under control, or there will be widespread anarchy.

The biggest mistake people make is believing that you can actually discuss and negotiate with political, religious and extremist terrorists ( of any faith ). 

Such a situation will never exist because the word compromise is totally missing from their vocabulary.

They must win every point and those they are against must win every point.

It, the situation, will never end and there is nothing, repeat nothing that can be said or done to stop it.

Sad as it is, all you can do is try somehow to stay out of it and hope ( not pray ) you don't get caught up in the middle of it.

[baansgr]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 Myself and others have been posting links to the many times they have in the past; links such as London attack: 500 imams condemn terrorists and refuse to perform funeral prayer for 'vile murderers'

 

The police and security services say they have foiled 13 potential attacks in the last four years; not only foiled, but those responsible for planning them have been arrested, put on trial, found guilty and imprisoned. To do this the police rely on information from the local, Muslim community.

The independent surprisingly seems to be the only media reporting a figure of 500, all others are quoting just 130, take this as a percentage of the estimated 7,500 in the UK, its barely 2%...not exactly a call for calm.

[Prbkk]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Disagree insofar as I think religious schools shouldn't be allowed - full stop -and I've little idea () why poiticians thought this a good idea .

 

It can't possibly have anything to do with politics and the knowledge of upcoming extremely lucrative positions....

There is no place for religious schools in a secular society...and those countries that provide public funds to subsidise them, Catholic, CE, Buddhist, Islamic....are wrong to do so ( although the justification for it usually relates to the cost of providing education for the students if the schools didn't exist). 

If parents want to provide some religious education for their kids, fine. But it should be outside the normal curriculum and not in a FT environment. Kids should be able to opt out of any religious study when they are able to make an informed choice for themselves, eg at 10 or 11 years old.

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

The only way forward is to allow open debate on Islam, immigration and a number of other topics which have been placed out of bounds by the divisive ideology of "multiculturalism".

 

When people are not allowed to even talk about these things in an honest (even if negative) way due to the demands of multiculturalism, all you do is bottle those feelings up inside people and make them angry. That can quickly turn nasty and violent.

 

If people could say "I'm really angry with all these immigrants clogging up my neighbourhood" without being prosecuted for a hate crime, maybe they wouldn't feel the need to use a van to get their point across.

 

Enforced silence just inflames them.

Cameron called out multiculturalism as 'failed' in 2011, wouldn't call that out as restriction of speech on the issue in the UK. Prosecutions for racial and religious hate crime have actually slightly decreased over the last five years. Facts don't appear to back up your claims, especially when one looks at reporting and comment sections in UK MSM and social media.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12381027

 

http://www.report-it.org.uk/files/hate_crime_report.pdf

[Scott]

I will be going back through this topic and doing some cleaning up.   Those advocating the killing of people will be suspended, the same as those who support any other type of terrorism.   It's not acceptable.  

 

I suggest you chose your words carefully in posting your responses.

 

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Nothing condones it.  

 

But it would be on the 3rd page in the news, confined to the Middle East were it not for our own meddling.  Assuming they wouldn't have worked it out themselves long ago without the colonial boot on their necks keeping them compliant.

 

You and I are beneficiaries of centuries of exploitation of the 3rd world by our ancestors, who either didn't see, or didn't give a rat about the long term unintended consequences.  We're paying the price today.

 

Strange, twisted, unatural creatures are those that hate their own kind, but praise the ones who would do them mischief.

 

Thankfully they're in the minority.

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

And again, I'd point out that over the centuries their 'leaders' are responsible for this.  But I agree that one has to be pretty stupid to fall for the 'leaders' claptrap.

 

Forgivable centuries ago, but it happens nowadays too....

Agree and would add it's purely for the financial benefit the 'leaders' are looking for.

[balo]

Theresa May speaking right now.  She is doing her best to convince us London is the greatest city on earth .  Make London great again. Good luck with that. 

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and support for or advocating the killing of others have been removed along with replies.   A number of members are on posting suspension.  

 

 

[retirementenquiry]

Just heard Teresa May make a statement in it i can quote her saying "It was a white man" this makes white people apologists for this crime which i don't condone but all things being equal if it was a black man it wouldn't be said.

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

It's not about 'the clash of religious beliefs and ideas' - it's not, at root, about culture at all, though ISIS may have declared it so.A deeper understanding (because nobody ever really understands themselves - that's why we have psychoanalysis) is that it's about one side (the Muslims) kicking back because they are being humiliated on an international human rights issue in one place in particular (Palestine) - and that bitterness has spread into other realms. It's perfectly understandable. This latest event is the British kicking back against the kicking back - that too is perfectly understandable. The solution though can only take place in the Middle East.

 

A world without religion would be a far more dangerous place - in fact, given human nature, it's practically impossible. Atheism is fine for the intellectuals, but the masses need religion to keep them under control, or there will be widespread anarchy.

"Atheism is fine for the intellectuals, but the masses need religion to keep them under control, or there will be widespread anarchy."

 

I've read some self-congratulatory rubbish in the past, but this takes the biscuit !

[gamini]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Top and bottom of it is that islam does not belong in our society, muslims do not want to integrate with the west, they bring their backward culture into the west and do not accept our values or culture. They want us to change for them, at the moment I have never seen England so volatile, it's like a tinderbox, maybe this is the start of something alien to us in the UK, like a fight back, who knows. But you can't keep blowing us up, knifing and running us down without someone blowing a gasket (btw I don't condone his actions,) everybody reacts differently to these attrocities.

Have you got many Muslim friends?

I have many wonderful Muslim friends in Indonesia and Malaysia. But you probably don't know anything about these countries  0r the fact that the largest Muslim population in the world is in Indonesia both of which have a completely secular government and are very integrated with the West..putting all Muslims into the same category shows your ignorance,  racism t and appalling attitude.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

It's not about 'the clash of religious beliefs and ideas' - it's not, at root, about culture at all, though ISIS may have declared it so.A deeper understanding (because nobody ever really understands themselves - that's why we have psychoanalysis) is that it's about one side (the Muslims) kicking back because they are being humiliated on an international human rights issue in one place in particular (Palestine) - and that bitterness has spread into other realms. It's perfectly understandable. This latest event is the British kicking back against the kicking back - that too is perfectly understandable. The solution though can only take place in the Middle East.

 

A world without religion would be a far more dangerous place - in fact, given human nature, it's practically impossible. Atheism is fine for the intellectuals, but the masses need religion to keep them under control, or there will be widespread anarchy.

I presume you're an atheist?

[onthesoi]

He described the attacker as a tattooed white man in his late 30s or early 40s.

[Mosha]

What I saw/heard about 7am was 2 witnesses say they saw the police 1st responders there minutes after they opened opened their curtains giving CPR. Then one clown 7 hours later complaining the police took 45 minutes, but 8 for Borough Market.
However there were young level heads about too. The imam probably saved the perps life.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[JetsetBkk]

4 minutes ago, Mosha said:

What I saw/heard about 7am was 2 witnesses say they saw the police 1st responders there minutes after they opened opened their curtains giving CPR. Then one clown 7 hours later complaining the police took 45 minutes, but 8 for Borough Market.
However there were young level heads about too. The imam probably saved the perps life.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk
 

I saw that too. You just can't believe what people say.

[JetsetBkk]

35 minutes ago, retirementenquiry said:

Just heard Teresa May make a statement in it i can quote her saying "It was a white man" this makes white people apologists for this crime which i don't condone but all things being equal if it was a black man it wouldn't be said.

 

Has Sadiq Khan repeated what he said months ago:  "Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things." ?

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by JetsetBkk
Corrected Khan's quote.

[observer90210]

Morality:  every religion has it's share of murderous fanatics!!

 

Consequence: I know why I am an atheist!!...atheist in religion and in politics!!

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

It's not about 'the clash of religious beliefs and ideas' - it's not, at root, about culture at all, though ISIS may have declared it so.A deeper understanding (because nobody ever really understands themselves - that's why we have psychoanalysis) is that it's about one side (the Muslims) kicking back because they are being humiliated on an international human rights issue in one place in particular (Palestine) - and that bitterness has spread into other realms. It's perfectly understandable. This latest event is the British kicking back against the kicking back - that too is perfectly understandable. The solution though can only take place in the Middle East.

 

A world without religion would be a far more dangerous place - in fact, given human nature, it's practically impossible. Atheism is fine for the intellectuals, but the masses need religion to keep them under control, or there will be widespread anarchy.

Really, you don't think their religious teachings have anything to do with why Muslims can't get on in society with people of other beliefs or religions?

 

Followers of that religion separate themselves from the rest of society in a non Muslim country.. or try to dominate it... seeing none believers are the enemy... and disgusting sinful creatures.  Maybe they are nice to your face, in your place of work.  But when it comes down to it they see you as much less than them at best, and hate you at worst. 

 

They won't accept you or tolerate you close to them.. I mean in their household, marrying a relative etc.  Their religion is in no means tolerant of anything. 

 

You must see a pattern.. that every country that Muslims live in as a minority has these problems going on.. just look at the bombs in Southern Thailand, for example, that is nothing to do with Muslims being angry about Palestine. 

 

Their religion grates and goes against any beliefs, societies, cultures, that don't allow them to be dominating it.

 

I can't agree that the masses need religion to keep them under control.  It's hardly working now is it?  Look a the most peaceful countries with the lowest crime rates... and you will find those are the counties with the highest number of none religious people.  Religion controls the masses to keep them down, fearful, in their place, and to manipulate them.  Do you think these things are good things? 

 

All the energy and money wasted on religion, and the crimes and atrocities committed in its name would not be there if religion was not there to nurture and propagate them.

[jak2002003]

12 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Why was the colour of the man's skin mentioned?  I thought it was totally PC not to identify the skin colour....  why didn't the report just say 'it appears that a man...'?

Yes, I thought that....

 

''a white man''

 

I could not imagine the sentence saying ''a black man''.   

 

 

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Yes, I thought that....

 

''a white man''

 

I could not imagine the sentence saying ''a black man''.   

 

 

My wife is a kind of brown colour. Am I being racist?

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I saw that too. You just can't believe what people say.

Funny claim on a forum.

[jak2002003]

48 minutes ago, gamini said:

I have many wonderful Muslim friends in Indonesia and Malaysia. But you probably don't know anything about these countries  0r the fact that the largest Muslim population in the world is in Indonesia both of which have a completely secular government and are very integrated with the West..putting all Muslims into the same category shows your ignorance,  racism t and appalling attitude.

Good for you.

 

So your wonderful Muslim friends are so integrated with the West they would not mind you mixing with female only family members and having a nice kiss in public and a hug before parting?

 

They would be happy for you to be in their house... and eat some pork scratchings with your curry?

 

They would happily let you marry one of their daughters in a Church and you won't have to convert to Islam?

 

They would look after you pet puppy and pot bellied pig while you went on holiday?

 

They would be happy to wear speedos and bikinis all together in the public swimming pool while on holiday?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

What a silly thing to do, this is a hate crime and he will be severely punished, in prison he may become a Muslim convert and on his release he can run down Christians. This is no answer, a civilized society doesn't allow the mob to take the law into its own hands. Beware of the beginnings, in Nazi Germany a hitherto civilized folk was seduced into thinking all wrongs stemmed from the Jews after that it was quite OK that they were brutally murdered.

Fault lies squarely outside the door of the politicians not outside the doors of the majority of foreigners, Muslim or not, who only seek a better life or a refuge from danger. Refugees should be looked after and then sent back when the situation allows it,not be given the right to stay for the rest of their lives, criminal elements should be sent back regardless. This doesn't happen at the moment, i expect this to change.  

[Prbkk]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

My wife is a kind of brown colour. Am I being racist?

Indeed. It becomes ludicrous...can't comment on race, implied religion, style of dress, identifying characteristics, mannerisms. I swear if suspects were naked it would be deemed inappropriate to say fat or thin, just to be PC. 

[onthesoi]

Even in a topic about Muslims being attacked the Islamophobes still feel slighted and continue on with their Islamophobic rants.

 

 

[canuckamuck]

 I can well imagine the perp could have been a guy who just lost a fiance or a child etc, in one of the recent attacks and just couldn't handle seeing no real help on the way for a society in a death spiral. I can't justify it, I am sad to see it happen actually, but I can see the mindset, especially with someone prone to anger.

In reality it should be the government who is seen to be rescuing British culture. But we know that isn't going to happen.

The media will run with this, one anti Muslim attack against a decade of Islamic terrorism but they will say it is all equal. In fact they might make it out that it is all the fault of the west. 

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 one anti Muslim attack against a decade of Islamic terrorism but they will say it is all equal. In fact they might make it out that it is all the fault of the west. 

 

Don't know what planet you are living on but millions of Muslims have died in western led wars over the last 17 years and counting...but according to you there has only one attack on Muslims in the last 10 years??????????????

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by onthesoi

[goldenbrwn1]

6 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Don't know what planet you are living on but millions of Muslims have died in western led wars over the last 17 years and counting...but according to you there has only one attack on Muslims in the last 10 years??????????????

 

 

I think he means domestic terrorism as I'm sure ur apologetic self knows already.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

I have many wonderful Muslim friends in Indonesia and Malaysia. But you probably don't know anything about these countries  0r the fact that the largest Muslim population in the world is in Indonesia both of which have a completely secular government and are very integrated with the West..putting all Muslims into the same category shows your ignorance,  racism t and appalling attitude.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, I am not bothered about Indonesia or Malaysia, I am bothered about our men, women and especially our children that are getting murdered in England in the name of Islam, it is an evil religion. You are another person who can't distinguish between race and religion, I cannot, repeat cannot be a racist for not liking Islam, call me an Islamaphobe if you want, but don't you dare call me a racist!