Trump blasts states for refusing to hand over voter data

[funandsuninbangkok]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Once again, 5 states headed by Republican governors and with Republican legislatures did an exhaustive search into voter fraud. They came up with virtually nothing. This wasn't based on polls or statistics. These were exhaustive and nitty-gritty investigations.  One was done by Kris Kobach, the vice-chairman of Trump's electoral commission. He came up with virtually zilch. As did all the others.

And of course, there's an all-too-familiar hypocrisy behind this. The same right wingers who lash out at statistical studies and polling, in this case, prefer the results of one outlier study over actual recounts and granular investigation of individual voters.

 

Once again, it's the Democratic states that have the fraud. Republicans are honest. Democrats cheat. 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Once again, it's the Democratic states that have the fraud. Republicans are honest. Democrats cheat. 

So, the democrats in states like Ohio and North Carolina, which have large numbers of democratic voters and in Ohio, at least, the big city of Cleveland, are honest or dishonest?

[Johpa]

On 7/2/2017 at 0:21 AM, Thaidream said:

 I am more concerned that Russian agents directed a hack of the voting machines and changed the vote totals and that Trump may not actually have won.

Donald Trump is wasting millions on this nonsense and his private travels to Florida while refusing universal healthcare to millions of Americans.

You don't have to look outside the country for manipulation of votes. May I suggest reading investigative reporter Greg Palast's book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" for a glimpse into machinations with voting machines and voter rolls.  And then maybe take a hard look at the extreme gerrymandering that occurs in the strong Republican "states rights" states. Putin only needs to manipulate Trump who, as a master intelligence handler, he plays like a Stradivarius.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Once again, it's the Democratic states that have the fraud. Republicans are honest. Democrats cheat. 

Honest are they?

Judge fines Kris Kobach $1,000 for misleading court

A judge has fined Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach $1,000 for misleading the court about the contents of materials he was photographed taking into a November meeting with then President-elect Donald Trump.

The ruling Friday by U.S. Magistrate Judge James O’Hara also requires Kobach to submit to a deposition by the American Civil Liberties Union about that document as well as a separate draft amendment to the National Voter Registration Act.

http:///news/politics-government/article157895979.html

[funandsuninbangkok]

16 minutes ago, Johpa said:

You don't have to look outside the country for manipulation of votes. May I suggest reading investigative reporter Greg Palast's book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" for a glimpse into machinations with voting machines and voter rolls.  And then maybe take a hard look at the extreme gerrymandering that occurs in the strong Republican "states rights" states. Putin only needs to manipulate Trump who, as a master intelligence handler, he plays like a Stradivarius.

Sorry no. Democrats were experts and Republicans against gerrymandering. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/22/us/california-gop-seeks-to-void-redistricting.html

 

truth is Abe Lincoln was right(good Republican BTW). You can't fool all the American people anymore. Less and less vote Democrat. 

[funandsuninbangkok]

18 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Honest are they?

Judge fines Kris Kobach $1,000 for misleading court

A judge has fined Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach $1,000 for misleading the court about the contents of materials he was photographed taking into a November meeting with then President-elect Donald Trump.

The ruling Friday by U.S. Magistrate Judge James O’Hara also requires Kobach to submit to a deposition by the American Civil Liberties Union about that document as well as a separate draft amendment to the National Voter Registration Act.

http:///news/politics-government/article157895979.html

Ohh!

 

$1000 bucks!  Big money for you?  

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Ohh!

 

$1000 bucks!  Big money for you?  

What's the amount of money got to do with it? He got fined for being dishonest. He's a Republican who is pushing for an electoral investigation and he got fined for being dishonest. He's a Republican and he got fined for being dishonest. He's a dishonest Republican 2nd in command of an investigation into allegations of electoral dishonesty.   And guess what, it was about an electoral issue. Have I put it in enough ways for it to soak in? Or are you still in denial?

[funandsuninbangkok]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What's the amount of money got to do with it? He got fined for being dishonest. He's a Republican who is pushing for an electoral investigation and he got fined for being dishonest. He's a Republican and he got fined for being dishonest. He's a dishonest Republican 2nd in command of an investigation into allegations of electoral dishonesty.   And guess what, it was about an electoral issue. Have I put it in enough ways for it to soak in? Or are you still in denial?

No voter fraud huh?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/voter-fraud-california-man-finds-dozens-ballots-stacked-outside-home.html

 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by funandsuninbangkok

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

No voter fraud huh?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/voter-fraud-california-man-finds-dozens-ballots-stacked-outside-home.html

 

 

For the sake of argument - and a rational look at the facts of this case militate against it  - let's say it was a case of voter fraud. If so, it was a case of absentee ballot voter fraud. Voting experts agree, that most of what little voter fraud there is, comes from absentee ballots. Oddly enough, none of the Republican states that have instituted so called anti voter fraud rules have addressed the issue of absentee ballot fraud. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that absentee ballot voters tend to favor Republicans.

 

[ilostmypassword]

29 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Sorry no. Democrats were experts and Republicans against gerrymandering. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/22/us/california-gop-seeks-to-void-redistricting.html

 

truth is Abe Lincoln was right(good Republican BTW). You can't fool all the American people anymore. Less and less vote Democrat. 

You really couldn't have brought up a worse example in regards to the point you are trying to make. First off, that article is 36 years old. And in fact, California voters in 2008  to establish a non-partisan commission to set up voting districts in such as way as to avoid gerrymandering. They voted again in 2010 to expand its responsibilities to federal elections.

The same kind of law was voted on in a referendum  and made law in Arizona. Conservatives tried to overturn that law claiming it was unconstitutional. They failed.

Please, send me more such data my way. I owe you big time.

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

19 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

For the sake of argument - and a rational look at the facts of this case militate against it  - let's say it was a case of voter fraud. If so, it was a case of absentee ballot voter fraud. Voting experts agree, that most of what little voter fraud there is, comes from absentee ballots. Oddly enough, none of the Republican states that have instituted so called anti voter fraud rules have addressed the issue of absentee ballot fraud. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that absentee ballot voters tend to favor Republicans.

 

Wrong. 

 

This is was a case of frausters using same address and getting caught

  

VOTER FRAUD! Wow. There it is. 

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Wrong. 

 

This is was a case of frausters using same address and getting caught

  

VOTER FRAUD! Wow. There it is. 

Really, the fraudsters got caught? Can you give me their names? Where was the trial held? What sentences were they given?

[funandsuninbangkok]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Really, the fraudsters got caught? Can you give me their names? Where was the trial held? What sentences were they given?

83 people registered to the same two bedroom apartment. What you need to see it on CNN before you can figure it out?

 

still looking for Russian voting fraud while this stuff is in front of you nose!

 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, funandsuninbangkok said:

83 people registered to the same two bedroom apartment. What you need to see it on CNN before you can figure it out?

 

still looking for Russian voting fraud while this stuff is in front of you nose!

 

 

1 minute ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

83 people registered to the same two bedroom apartment. What you need to see it on CNN before you can figure it out?

 

still looking for Russian voting fraud while this stuff is in front of you nose!

 

You have proof that 83 people registered there? We know that 83 ballots were delivered there. Not the same thing at all. Not even fox news claimed that voter fraud was proved.  Here's the headline of the article

'Voter fraud'? California man finds dozens of ballots stacked outside home

And theres this quote from the office of the registrar::

"In a statement, the office of the Registrar said, “We are carefully reviewing our records and gathering information to fully identify what took place.  Our preliminary assessment is that this appears to be an isolated situation related to a system error that occurred causing duplicate ballots to be issued to an address entered for a single voter. We are working directly with the system vendor to ensure the issue is addressed and to identify any similar occurrences.”

 

You have proof that they are lying?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Study is credible and here is are the highlights

 

Highlights

•

First use of representative sample to measure non-citizen voting in USA.

•

Some non-citizens cast votes in U.S. elections despite legal bans.

•

Non-citizens favor Democratic candidates over Republican candidates.

•

Non-citizen voting likely changed 2008 outcomes including Electoral College votes and the composition of Congress.

•

Voter photo-identification rules have limited effect on non-citizen participation.

 

You are cut and pasting from the abstract.  You haven't seen the study.   You don't know how it was done.  But of course you don't care, since the abstract gives top level results you want to believe. 

 

If you click on the authors for the study you'll see they are all from Old Dominion, the source of the discredited survey.  The study has no credibility. However I am sure you will continue to believe fake news that supports your world view.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

excellent point!    More proof of massive fraud - 20% of Rhode Island voters no longer live in state!  Two Democratic Senators hail from RI!   No wonder Dems are hiding the voter rolls!  

 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/07/02/nearly-20-of-rhode-island-registered-voters-live-out-of-state/

 

 

When the fake news claims there is no proof, ask them when the last time them did an investigation into voter fraud.  Never is the answer.  Easiest story in the world.  Get voter rolls for LA or NY and knock on doors. see who answers compared to who is registered. See if they are US citizens.  They wont do it of course.

Old news, presented in a fake news format.  Voter registrations also contain a lot of dead people, because people don't rush out and deregister themselves after they die.  However there is no proof that voter registration records that are out of date lead to voter fraud.

 

However if you want to lock up people who are improperly registered to vote, you can start with the Trump family and inner circle:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-cabinet-family-voter-registration.html

 

In fact, now that I think about it---Lock them up! Lock them up!  Lock them up!.....

[funandsuninbangkok]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Old news, presented in a fake news format.  Voter registrations also contain a lot of dead people, because people don't rush out and deregister themselves after they die.  However there is no proof that voter registration records that are out of date lead to voter fraud.

 

However if you want to lock up people who are improperly registered to vote, you can start with the Trump family and inner circle:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-cabinet-family-voter-registration.html

 

In fact, now that I think about it---Lock them up! Lock them up!  Lock them up!.....

Wow! 20% of Rode Island voters suddenly died?  Best explanation you got?

 

Really seems like Democrats will say anything. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by funandsuninbangkok

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Wow! 20% of Rode Island voters suddenly died?  Best explanation you got?

 

Really seems like Democrats will say anything. 

 

 

They also move out of state and don't bother to deregister.  Like Steve Bannon.

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You are cut and pasting from the abstract.  You haven't seen the study.   You don't know how it was done.  But of course you don't care, since the abstract gives top level results you want to believe. 

 

If you click on the authors for the study you'll see they are all from Old Dominion, the source of the discredited survey.  The study has no credibility. However I am sure you will continue to believe fake news that supports your world view.

I'll post this again. It's a link to an exhaustive story about the genesis of this paper and its flaws:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-noncitizen-voters/

And once again massive investigations in 5 separate states with republican governors and republican legislatures, looked in vain to find proof of massive voter fraud. The found zilch. And even if the ludicrous claim that Republicans were inherently honest was true, most of these states have a history of back and forth between Republicans and Democrats. But virtually nothing was found, whether among republilcan leaning areas or democratic ones.  Which pretty much puts paid to the validity of this one study. Which, by the way, was an outlier.

[funandsuninbangkok]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

They also move out of state and don't bother to deregister.  Like Steve Bannon.

You insist there is no cause for concern about voter fraud. 

 

I provide documented evidence of 20% of Rhode Island's voter rolls being invalid 

 

why not investigate?

[heybruce]

39 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Wow! 20% of Rode Island voters suddenly died?  Best explanation you got?

 

Really seems like Democrats will say anything. 

 

Suddenly?  When was the last time the voter registration lists in Rhode Island were purged?  States do not have the resources to track down every registered voter before every election and make sure the information is correct. 

 

States also don't need to constantly update voter registration databases. A person who votes illegally in a federal election can be fine up to $100,000 and imprisoned for up to eight years.  The chances of getting caught are high and the benefits are non-existent.  That's why it's so rare:

 

"Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections. The National Association of Secretaries of State, whose Republican-majority membership includes the chief elections officers of 40 states, said they “are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump.”    http://time.com/4669899/illegal-citizens-voting-trump/  

 

The same source also addresses the Old Dominion study that keeps getting referenced, directly or indirectly, on this topic:

 

" First, the president — and his Senior Advisor Stephen Miller — cited a study by Jesse Richman and David Earnest, two professors at Old Dominion University, which claimed 14 percent of non-citizens are registered to vote. That study has been thoroughly debunked by prominent experts for relying on a sample so small that the findings could be explained by response error. The report’s own author said it does not support the president’s claim. "

 

Just because you, and Trump, want to believe in massive voter fraud doesn't make it real.

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

You insist there is no cause for concern about voter fraud. 

 

I provide documented evidence of 20% of Rhode Island's voter rolls being invalid 

 

why not investigate?

You clearly don't know how much time and effort is required to update a database with millions of names, follow up on every name and data entry, update the legitimate entries, purge the invalid ones and make sure the state doesn't disenfranchise legitimate voters.  It is a massive undertaking, and unnecessary.

 

As has been stated, repeatedly, the subject has been investigated, repeatedly.  There is no evidence of massive voter fraud, and substantial evidence to the contrary. 

 

Why don't you come back with evidence of large scale voter fraud, instead of hypothetical "maybe could happen" reports?

 

Edit:  It's kind of funny; the people who are screaming "no evidence" about the Russia investigation are insisting there is massive voter fraud without evidence.

Edited July 3, 2017 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

trump's investigation is a SHAM designed to suppress voters.

Very trumpist. Very republican. Very racist. Fooling nobody including people supporting it that know full well what it is.

 

Again, we've elected a sleazy corrupt con man. It worked to get him elected. But beyond that, it doesn't always work for him. The world, outside his rabid base, is WISE to his scams.

 

Quote

Both before and after the election, Trump made wild and unsubstantiated claims about voter fraud and the system being “rigged.” Before the election, many of the claims were about voters voting five, 10, or 15 times by impersonating other voters. The ridiculous and unproven charges of voter fraud had a racial tinge, with suggestions the fraud would happen in majority minority communities.* According to the New York Times, he told an audience in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, a few weeks before Election Day: “I just hear such reports about Philadelphia. … I hear these horror shows, and we have to make sure that this election is not stolen from us and is not taken away from us.” He added for emphasis: “Everybody knows what I’m talking about.”

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/06/donald_trump_s_voter_fraud_commission_is_itself_an_enormous_fraud.html

[charmonman]

On 7/2/2017 at 11:16 AM, funandsuninbangkok said:

Last four digits only dude

 

what you hiding?

I don't know. I wonder what Trump is hiding in his tax returns.

[Si Thea01]

4 minutes ago, charmonman said:

I don't know. I wonder what Trump is hiding in his tax returns.

Personal information that has nothing to do with anyone else.  There is no law that forces him to produce it, even if he said he was going to. He is doing a good job playing with the minds of others that they don't know which way to turn. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Si Thea01

[charmonman]

29 minutes ago, Si Thea01 said:

Personal information that has nothing to do with anyone else.  There is no law that forces him to produce it, even if he said he was going to. He is doing a good job playing with the minds of others that they don't know which way to turn. 

He is the President of the United States. It has everything to do with everyone else. People need to have confidence that the President is clean and free of financial entanglements and conflicts of interest which would affect his ability to do his job fairly. A large portion of the US citizenry have serious doubts that this is so.

What is he hiding?

[Johpa]

12 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Sorry no. Democrats were experts and Republicans against gerrymandering. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/22/us/california-gop-seeks-to-void-redistricting.html

 

truth is Abe Lincoln was right(good Republican BTW). You can't fool all the American people anymore. Less and less vote Democrat. 

 

Indeed gerrymandering is as old as the hills, both sides have engaged in the practice.  But what happened in 1981 pales in comparison as to what happens today because of the amount of data accessible. There has been, quite literally, a quantum leap in the malfeasance behind the current gerrymandering compared to what took place decades ago. Hopefully those on all sides of the political spectrum can agree that given the new volumes of data and the newer algorithms that we should rely on non-partisan formulas for redistricting the electorate and remove the politics out of the process in hopes of restoring democracy to the land.

[funandsuninbangkok]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

Suddenly?  When was the last time the voter registration lists in Rhode Island were purged?  States do not have the resources to track down every registered voter before every election and make sure the information is correct. 

 

States also don't need to constantly update voter registration databases. A person who votes illegally in a federal election can be fine up to $100,000 and imprisoned for up to eight years.  The chances of getting caught are high and the benefits are non-existent.  That's why it's so rare:

 

"Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections. The National Association of Secretaries of State, whose Republican-majority membership includes the chief elections officers of 40 states, said they “are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump.”    http://time.com/4669899/illegal-citizens-voting-trump/  

 

The same source also addresses the Old Dominion study that keeps getting referenced, directly or indirectly, on this topic:

 

" First, the president — and his Senior Advisor Stephen Miller — cited a study by Jesse Richman and David Earnest, two professors at Old Dominion University, which claimed 14 percent of non-citizens are registered to vote. That study has been thoroughly debunked by prominent experts for relying on a sample so small that the findings could be explained by response error. The report’s own author said it does not support the president’s claim. "

 

Just because you, and Trump, want to believe in massive voter fraud doesn't make it real.

You start your argument admitting voter roles are a mess then descend into a pretzel of logic only and intellectual from some ivory tower could believe. 

 

Democrats are against looking for voter fraud because they depend on it. 

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, Johpa said:

 

Indeed gerrymandering is as old as the hills, both sides have engaged in the practice.  But what happened in 1981 pales in comparison as to what happens today because of the amount of data accessible. There has been, quite literally, a quantum leap in the malfeasance behind the current gerrymandering compared to what took place decades ago. Hopefully those on all sides of the political spectrum can agree that given the new volumes of data and the newer algorithms that we should rely on non-partisan formulas for redistricting the electorate and remove the politics out of the process in hopes of restoring democracy to the land.

California has done just that. It's the right-wing that consistently opposes this.

[Scott]

A post with a link to an unapproved source has been removed.