New immigration boss vows deep investigation of expats

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I was talking about nations with formal retirement visa programs. I am relaxed. Thailand is one of the easiest nations in the world for retirement visa programs and the "visa fixing" type of thing I described is not common in any other nation that I've researched that has a formal retirement visa program.

To be clear, I mean mean easy even without the dodgy fixing. There is no need normally to hire visa help here for people willing to follow the rules and that can speak English. 

Name one nation with a formal retirement visa program that you think visa fixing (not following the requirements at all) as I described is common. I will look into it because that would be news to me on a topic that I've researched personally for many years. 

Yes, most places have visa agencies that facilitate but you still need to meet the rules.

In South America they are NUTTY about getting every document apostled and the documents expire. You can't not do that. You can't pay a visa fixer to get around that. 

There are some exceptions like Chile where the financial rules are not set in stone.

In some countries, you can't realistically get the retirement visa without paying for help because of language and bureaucracy but you STILL need to meet the rules. 

 

The only difference is the cost of the fixing and how "well-connected" you need to be. Most of us never had "friends in high places" and/or expensive lawyers where we spent most of our lives - not 'expensive' to you and me - but the sort who take care of the Elite - set up foundations, etc.   You would never meet them - and they would not give you the time of day if you did.  The "rules" are just for we lowly peons.  Then we come to Central/South America or SE-Asia and, for the first time, "corruption" is suddenly in our price-range, so is marketed to us.

 

You can get a visa "fixed" anywhere with all the 'fancy stamps' included (genuine "apostled" ones).  Those holding the stamps will "be told" who to let through.  The only question is how much it will cost - in money or favors - and knowing a lawyer they trust (plays golf, eats dinner with, etc - where the discussion will likely take place, not in his office).   More often in the West, it is favor-trading (related to business and regulations) than cash. 

 

If a "good and honest" person gets into the chain of visa-issuance, as ordered by the Elites, they are quickly disposed of - like this guy, who dared complain about handing out US-Visas to dangerous, dodgy characters who "had connections": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Springmann .  That particular case shows why corruption in the visa-arena is so dangerous - can get lots of people killed - hence why I wish the agent-system here was dismantled, to at least raise the bar on who can get through.  At the same time, it would be unfortunate if many poorer retirees lost their means to stay here, as even their meager contributions keep Thais employed.

 

Granted, if dealing with expensive-countries absent well-connected business or political allies, it's easier to use the 'legal' way - an EB5 visa for the USA, for example (search: Kuchner wealthy Chinese EB-5)   - but even then, the devil is in the details, and the supposed 'rules' of the visa are often stretched (search: EB-5 fraud abuse). 

[Jingthing]

Name the SPECIFIC nations other than Thailand with formal retirement visa programs where visa fixing where the rules aren't met is common.

Nobody can do that.

So I'm calling B.S.! 

If you do name a nation or nations, back it up with some evidence. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Jingthing

[Kim1950]

Think we beaten this to death. Well said,  "Then we come to Central/South America or SE-Asia and, for the first time, "corruption" is suddenly in our price-range, so is marketed to us." People who fix visas for serious money, favors, or connections aren't advertising themselves. That's the point. There are all sorts of nuances to immigration laws, that can be exploited by the right people. I am just a regular person who by chance was exposed to the fringes of this world of access. On ease of retirement by country per visa requirements,  International Living Retirement Index rates Thailand at 61, worse than Vietnam or the Philippines . Colombia would be much better. Overall Thailand ranks 12th. This is still a personal decision, everybody is different. I would prefer Thailand. Then again why not try different places. You don't retire to a country, as much, as you retire to a place. By the way IL has forums, too.

 

Anyway,  Thailand is way far from the North America, so what is the demographics of a Thailand ExPat Retiree. If they keep records, that might help with a better understanding of the situation. Australia is close, there do seem to be many from Britain. It's like the South America or Caribbean of the East. Tourist Cruise destination for China, Taiwan, Japan, or Korea. As said, "It would be unfortunate if many poorer retirees lost their means to stay here, as even their meager contributions keep Thais employed." The same can be said for Costa Rica, not too long ago. It's more expensive there than in the US. And there, you still need gratuities to get by. Ya know, there's Cambodia, and shortly that won't be such a bad place to retire.There are always entrepreneurs willing to make money and make life better.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Kim1950 said:

Think we beaten this to death. Well said,  "Then we come to Central/South America or SE-Asia and, for the first time, "corruption" is suddenly in our price-range, so is marketed to us." People who fix visas for serious money, favors, or connections aren't advertising themselves. That's the point. There are all sorts of nuances to immigration laws, that can be exploited by the right people. I am just a regular person who by chance was exposed to the fringes of this world of access. On ease of retirement by country per visa requirements,  International Living Retirement Index rates Thailand at 61, worse than Vietnam or the Philippines . Colombia would be much better. Overall Thailand ranks 12th. This is still a personal decision, everybody is different. I would prefer Thailand. Then again why not try different places. You don't retire to a country, as much, as you retire to a place. By the way IL has forums, too.

 

Anyway,  Thailand is way far from the North America, so what is the demographics of a Thailand ExPat Retiree. If they keep records, that might help with a better understanding of the situation. Australia is close, there do seem to be many from Britain. It's like the South America oraribbean of the East. Tourist Cruise destination for China, Taiwan, Japan, or Korea. As said, "It would be unfortunate if many poorer retirees lost their means to stay here, as even their meager contributions keep Thais employed." TheC same can be said for Costa Rica, not too long ago. It's more expensive there than in the US. And there, you still need gratuities to get by. Ya know, there's Cambodia, and shortly that won't be such a bad place to retire.There are always entrepreneurs willing to make money and make life better.

Vietnam does not have a retirement visa.

Colombia does but is much more difficult to do than Thailand (you need to pay for help for sure) and is much less popular. Also Colombia had a lifetime residency visa and then without warning rescinded it and changed lifetime to five years. That wasn't only for future applicants. They did this to people with EXISTING lifetime stamps in their passports! Bad faith nation in that regard.

You're changing the parameters of the discussion. Everyone knows International Living is largely a marketing organ to sell real estate.

Rating "best" retirement places is NOT the same topic at all as ease of the retirement visa system.

Regardless of the "knowledge" you think you have from reading International Living, based on my years of research, there is no doubt in my mind that THAILAND has one of the easiest (or perhaps even MOST EASY) formal retirement visa programs in the world. It's easy but offers no residency security. Other nations that require more work in the application (and higher requirements) do often offer more residency security, sometimes even permanent residence for retired expats. 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Jingthing

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

... Other nations that require more work in the application (and higher requirements) do often offer more residency security, sometimes even permanent residence for retired expats.

Have you looked at Paraguay?  $5K USD in a local bank and you apply for Permanent Residency (lifetime) through an agent.  Three years later, even if you don't live there, you can apply for citizenship.  Foreign-ownership of land, etc - no problem - same as much of Central/South America - which is not so great for the locals, in some respects.

[bkk6060]

Many seem to complain about the income requirement and/or bank seeding of money for the  Retirement Visa.

I just left the US Embassy BKK.  It took 17 minutes from entry to exit.

It is a one page form and you pay $50.  The fraud potential here I see is all you do raise your right hand and swear the monthly income you put on the form is correct.  In my case it was,  but it would be so easy to lie on this if one was so inclined to commit a crime.  With this however, I could be wrong but I do not believe they actually check one's income to verify.

 

[Pattaya46]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Name the SPECIFIC nations other than Thailand with formal retirement visa programs where visa fixing where the rules aren't met is common. Nobody can do that. So I'm calling B.S.! 

Not for a Retirement visa but for a Work visa: When I was in Brazil my employer used an "agency" to "fix" (renew) my visa. When I got back my Passport, I saw that it travelled to the Brazil Embassy in Argentina! without me...

Visa problems and solutions in Brazil at this time were very similar to what we have in Thailand nowadays, and use of "agencies" was frequent.

[jpinx]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Vietnam does not have a retirement visa.

Colombia does but is much more difficult to do than Thailand (you need to pay for help for sure) and is much less popular. Also Colombia had a lifetime residency visa and then without warning rescinded it and changed lifetime to five years. That wasn't only for future applicants. They did this to people with EXISTING lifetime stamps in their passports! Bad faith nation in that regard.

You're changing the parameters of the discussion. Everyone knows International Living is largely a marketing organ to sell real estate.

Rating "best" retirement places is NOT the same topic at all as ease of the retirement visa system.

Regardless of the "knowledge" you think you have from reading International Living, based on my years of research, there is no doubt in my mind that THAILAND has one of the easiest (or perhaps even MOST EASY) formal retirement visa programs in the world. It's easy but offers no residency security. Other nations that require more work in the application (and higher requirements) do often offer more residency security, sometimes even permanent residence for retired expats. 

 

 

Indeed!   Even the good old USofA cancelled "lifetime" visas way back in the 80's.  I believe there is a general agreement that a country will not cancel a travellers visa if it is the only option left.  No-one will be forced into a "stateless" status.  It's not bad faith really, more of an adjustment to the conditions.  Thailand allows you to apply for citizenship if you want to go through that process.

[Jingthing]

Indeed! [emoji6]  Even the good old USofA cancelled "lifetime" visas way back in the 80's.  I believe there is a general agreement that a country will not cancel a travellers visa if it is the only option left.  No-one will be forced into a "stateless" status.  It's not bad faith really, more of an adjustment to the conditions.  Thailand allows you to apply for citizenship if you want to go through that process.

There is no path to permanent residence or citizenship in Thailand via retirement extensions.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, peterpaintpot said:

It amazes me that so many have posted because this officer is picking out a section of expats! In fact this statement should be treated as one of Donald's tweets, hot air and nothing else. if you are an honest expat you should see that this is statement that he will enforce current legislation. There have been wild statements from inflated self important Immigration Officials before - and they have come to nothing. Let's wait and see what happens or move to a different area.

 

Honest people should have no fears of an honest application of the current rules.

 

Not so. The spy form probably came in because of similar. What happens if they start asking for police checks, character references or such like?

Are you going to hand over your forum password so they can check to see what you have been saying about Thailand?

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Have you looked at Paraguay?  $5K USD in a local bank and you apply for Permanent Residency (lifetime) through an agent.  Three years later, even if you don't live there, you can apply for citizenship.  Foreign-ownership of land, etc - no problem - same as much of Central/South America - which is not so great for the locals, in some respects.

I did. It's not a retirement visa so out of the scope of what I was discussing, but yes, it would be a very attractive offer in a country more people actually want to live in! Seriously. Paraguay, no thank you. 

If they had the same offer in Argentina, good chance I would be there.

My impression is the Paraguay scheme is mostly about people getting an easy second passport for whatever reasons people feel they need a second passport. Full time expat living, not so much. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jingthing

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

There is no path to permanent residence or citizenship in Thailand via retirement extensions.

Nor from long-term marriage living on income from an overseas source/business - not even if you bring the money to Thailand in the year it is earned and pay tax on that income (which would be foolish, otherwise).

[billd766]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Many seem to complain about the income requirement and/or bank seeding of money for the  Retirement Visa.

I just left the US Embassy BKK.  It took 17 minutes from entry to exit.

It is a one page form and you pay $50.  The fraud potential here I see is all you do raise your right hand and swear the monthly income you put on the form is correct.  In my case it was,  but it would be so easy to lie on this if one was so inclined to commit a crime.  With this however, I could be wrong but I do not believe they actually check one's income to verify.

 

 

I will be contacting the UK embassy this week for my letter of confirmation.

 

It will cost me 2,400 baht and I have to send the letters of confirmation from my pension providers as proof.

 

I am 99% or more of the belief that the embasy does not contact the pension provider for proof of this as the turn around time is 5 working days, including EMS postage.

 

For anyone who is competent I am sure it is possible to knock up the letterheads and make up your own pension incomes.

[YetAnother]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

but I do not believe they actually check one's income to verify

possible they cannot do it; read somewhere about a privacy act that could apply here

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

There is no path to permanent residence or citizenship in Thailand via retirement extensions.

i dont doubt you; i do wonder why these paths do not exist; many of us that use retirement extensions are also married to a thai

[Thai Ron]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Have you looked at Paraguay?  $5K USD in a local bank and you apply for Permanent Residency (lifetime) through an agent.  Three years later, even if you don't live there, you can apply for citizenship.  Foreign-ownership of land, etc - no problem - same as much of Central/South America - which is not so great for the locals, in some respects.

Hahahaha but is there a scene for men to get laid easily?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

i dont doubt you; i do wonder why these paths do not exist; many of us that use retirement extensions are also married to a thai

They don't exist because the Thai government has chosen to not offer them. Simple really. 

[lucjoker]

23 hours ago, perthperson said:

 

You most certainly have not but if I am wrong please post a picture of this "visa" you have. 

 

I suspect you actually have an extension of stay based on retirement which is not a visa .......

Yes , it is an extension of stay based on a non -0 visa .

The actual visa is in the first passport, every time i got a new passport, they stamp the "1st visa" on the first page,then every year the extension "retirement "stamp and a multiple entry stamp.

since they extent my original non-0 visa......i don't need a new one......so i'm still on the first one ,witch they extend every year .

This first visa is still so important ,that they re-stamp it in every new passport.

To say i'm not on a visa ...?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

Yes , it is an extension of stay based on a non -0 visa .

The actual visa is in the first passport, every time i got a new passport, they stamp the "1st visa" on the first page,then every year the extension "retirement "stamp and a multiple entry stamp.

since they extent my original non-0 visa......i don't need a new one......so i'm still on the first one ,witch they extend every year .

This first visa is still so important ,that they re-stamp it in every new passport.

To say i'm not on a visa ...?

You do not have a visa...

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

Yes , it is an extension of stay based on a non -0 visa .

The actual visa is in the first passport, every time i got a new passport, they stamp the "1st visa" on the first page,then every year the extension "retirement "stamp and a multiple entry stamp.

since they extent my original non-0 visa......i don't need a new one......so i'm still on the first one ,witch they extend every year .

This first visa is still so important ,that they re-stamp it in every new passport.

To say i'm not on a visa ...?

Well, your current stays after the original visa expires are indeed based on annual extensions of stay, and not the original visa. Yes, the visa is still referred to but without the current valid extensions, you're illegal. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jingthing

[lucjoker]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Well, your current stays after the original visa expires are indeed based on annual extensions of stay, and not the original visa. Yes, the visa is still referred to but with the extensions, you're illegal. 

"Yes, the visa is still referred to but with the extensions, you're illegal." 

so i'm illegal?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, lucjoker said:

"Yes, the visa is still referred to but with the extensions, you're illegal." 

so i'm illegal?

No. You replied too soon. Fixed the error:

Quote

Yes, the visa is still referred to but without the current valid extensions, you're illegal. 

 

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Have you looked at Paraguay?  $5K USD in a local bank and you apply for Permanent Residency (lifetime) through an agent.  Three years later, even if you don't live there, you can apply for citizenship.  Foreign-ownership of land, etc - no problem - same as much of Central/South America - which is not so great for the locals, in some respects.

 

2 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

Hahahaha but is there a scene for men to get laid easily?

I am guessing you have not been to / lived-in Latin America? 

Short-answer - "yes" - either via dating or short-term financial-transactions at brothels, etc - your choice.

Edited July 10, 2017 by JackThompson

[jpinx]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There is no path to permanent residence or citizenship in Thailand via retirement extensions.

"...path..."  ???  You just apply -- like everything else -- and when you fulfill the requirements you will gain Thai citizenship/nationality/permanent residence.  There is an expectation that Thailand will welcome "new citizens", based no nothing other than the self-importance felt by the applicant.  Unless someone has something important to offer Thailand - why should they make it easy?   Bringing some cash in is not going to cut it, there needs to be some benefit to the nation as a whole.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

"...path..."  ???  You just apply -- like everything else -- and when you fulfill the requirements you will gain Thai citizenship/nationality/permanent residence.  There is an expectation that Thailand will welcome "new citizens", based no nothing other than the self-importance felt by the applicant.  Unless someone has something important to offer Thailand - why should they make it easy?   Bringing some cash in is not going to cut it, there needs to be some benefit to the nation as a whole.

It's hard to imagine something that benefits a nation, as a whole, more than pouring money into its economy. 

The list, from my perspective, looks like:

• bring in money into the economy for years
• pay taxes on income you pour into the economy for years
• marry a local for years
• raise children here for years
• no problems with govt here living for years (crimes, etc)
• volunteer your time for a charity

Not good enough. 

 

But skip some of the above, and add:

• Take a Thai's job and use Thai-money to live here instead of bringing in foreign-money to do it.

Now you qualify for PR and/or Citizenship.  Ironic, really, given we create Thai jobs very effectively by simply spending foreign-capital into the Thai economy, sans-job.
 

Granted, also, you could start a business to hire Thais, and get a Work-Permit to be a director - so not directly-displace Thais from jobs - provided your business does not compete with Thai businesses.  But the qualifications for PR / Citizenship do not differentiate between types of 'work'.  And unless your business is exporting Thai goods/services or draws additional tourists, you are just re-circulating existing Thai-money - perhaps money is spent at your business instead of a Thai's business.

 

There are many more steps after that to gain PR or Citizenship than the above, of course, but the other steps get you nowhere unless you get a work-permit and work here for years. 

Perhaps it is just me trying to apply 'logic' to things, again, which gets me confused.

Edited July 10, 2017 by JackThompson

[Jingthing]

"...path..."  ???  You just apply -- like everything else -- and when you fulfill the requirements you will gain Thai citizenship/nationality/permanent residence.  There is an expectation that Thailand will welcome "new citizens", based no nothing other than the self-importance felt by the applicant.  Unless someone has something important to offer Thailand - why should they make it easy? [emoji6]  Bringing some cash in is not going to cut it, there needs to be some benefit to the nation as a whole.

Let me explain this to you and if you still don't understand feel welcome to ask more questions.

 

By path I meant that the longevity of the stay on retirement extensions would eventually qualify a permanent residence application. It does not at all do that.

 

 

In a number of nations that offer formal retirement visa programs the opportunity is available to apply for permanent residence and/or citizenship based on living in the country for a number of years. For example, three years or five years.

 

Other requirements may be part of the application process but the point is that staying for some years on legal retirement status provides a PATH to those much higher levels of residence security.

 

In Thailand that doesn't exist. Someone here on their first year or the 20th year of annual retirement extensions has the exact same qualification to apply for permanent residence. None at all.

 

That's the deal. Their nation their rules. But people should know the truth about that going in.

 

[jpinx]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Let me explain this to you and if you still don't understand feel welcome to ask more questions.

 

By path I meant that the longevity of the stay on retirement extensions would eventually qualify a permanent residence application. It does not at all do that.

 

 

In a number of nations that offer formal retirement visa programs the opportunity is available to apply for permanent residence and/or citizenship based on living in the country for a number of years. For example, three years or five years.

 

Other requirements may be part of the application process but the point is that staying for some years on legal retirement status provides a PATH to those much higher levels of residence security.

 

In Thailand that doesn't exist. Someone here on their first year or the 20th year of annual retirement extensions has the exact same qualification to apply for permanent residence. None at all.

 

That's the deal. Their nation their rules. But people should know the truth about that going in.

 

Prior residence is just one of the requirements -- nothing special about that.  You can buy citizenship of some countries without it..... 

[Jingthing]

Prior residence is just one of the requirements -- nothing special about that.  You can buy citizenship of some countries without it.....  [emoji6]

You refuse to get the point. I've concluded now that you are being disingenuous.
People on retirement extensions are not eligible to apply for permanent residency. Goodbye. No patience for people being intentionally fake thick.

[jpinx]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You refuse to get the point. I've concluded now that you are being disingenuous.
People on retirement extensions are not eligible to apply for permanent residency. Goodbye. No patience for people being intentionally fake thick.

A person on retirement is allowed to apply for citizenship if they want.  Their current status will not help, but it certainly does not prevent them from going through the process.  Your postings imply that a person on an extension based on retirement is somehow not allowed or is prevented from applying.  That is patently not true.

Edited July 10, 2017 by jpinx

[Ron19]

An incorrect reply to a post has been removed.