New immigration boss vows deep investigation of expats

[lucjoker]

14 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
  No idea what you are on about, but it required either 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai bank account or proof of 65,000 baht/month retirement income.
  I just did the process, and that is what was required.
  There is NO strictly legal way to do this without meeting the financial requirements.
  One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
  The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income.
  I do not even know who the landlord is as they pay a maid here to "manage" their units.
  If you know of "...a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........", please let the rest of us falangs and The Royal Thai Police who run immigration know all about it.

i have a non -0 visa for 11 years now.

it is extended every year, they put a new stamp in ,and over this stamp comes another stamp:"RETIREMENT"

That's why we (50+ people) call it retirement visa.

Dont remember what a OA-longstay visa is, maybe for youngsters under 50 ?

[perthperson]

5 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

i have a non -0 visa for 11 years now.

 

You most certainly have not but if I am wrong please post a picture of this "visa" you have. 

 

I suspect you actually have an extension of stay based on retirement which is not a visa .......

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

You most certainly have not but if I am wrong please post a picture of this "visa" you have. 

 

I suspect you actually have an extension of stay based on retirement which is not a visa .......

Oh come on, now.

When you apply for each retirement extension, they ask you about the original visa you started the extensions on, whether it was this year or 20 years ago. The original visa will be either an O or O-A.

 

This thread is off the rails.

It's not about retirement extensions.

It's about a threat of some kind of crackdown on long stayers.

Very vague threat at this point. 

[jpinx]

13 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

i have a non -0 visa for 11 years now.

it is extended every year, they put a new stamp in ,and over this stamp comes another stamp:"RETIREMENT"

That's why we (50+ people) call it retirement visa.

Dont remember what a OA-longstay visa is, maybe for youngsters under 50 ?

Your extension of permission to stay is based on the fact that you are retired -- hence the big stamp saying "RETIREMENT".  Your original visa (mine was a non-O) will  have expired a long time ago - hence your continuing requirement to get a re-entry permit to leave Thailand and be allowed back in.

[jpinx]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh come on, now.

When you apply for each retirement extension, they ask you about the original visa you started the extensions on, whether it was this year or 20 years ago. The original visa will be either an O or O-A.

 

This thread is off the rails.

It's not about retirement extensions.

It's about a threat of some kind of crackdown on long stayers.

Very vague threat at this point. 

Indeed :)   Immigration appear to be blowing hot air about something new, but the reality is that they are just re-inforcing the existing rules about income, savings, criminal record, etc.  which anyone applying for an annual extension will be going through anyway.  There is also the chat about health/travel insurance and possibly other aspects they might want to tighten up on, but nothing that will disturb the legitimate traveller. 

[Jingthing]

Well, based on the statement, it's very hard to really know whether this really means anything concrete or not. 

 

If it means doing more thorough criminal background checks from existing intentional databases (I thought they were already doing that), I doubt many people could have a real problem with that if the intent is to screen out serious criminals.

 

If it means cracking down on people using visa fixers that can't or won't actually meet the national law's financial requirements, well, that is not unreasonable, but it certainly will hurt a lot of people that thought what they were doing was sort of OK based on it happening without consequence for decades.

 

IF that is what it's about, don't you think it would be useful for there to be a clear announcement that the target is people using visa fixers so that such people might have a chance to go fully legit next time if they are able? But, NO, nothing said like that. 

 

Or perhaps it means cracking down on people that are NOT using fixers because, well, you figure it out .. CA-CHING.

 

At this point all we know is that some vaguely threatening noise has been made.

 

It will probably be good for the blood pressure medication business if nothing else. 

[balo]

You no like Thailand laws? You go away . Next .

 

 

 

[peterpaintpot]

It amazes me that so many have posted because this officer is picking out a section of expats! In fact this statement should be treated as one of Donald's tweets, hot air and nothing else. if you are an honest expat you should see that this is statement that he will enforce current legislation. There have been wild statements from inflated self important Immigration Officials before - and they have come to nothing. Let's wait and see what happens or move to a different area.

 

Honest people should have no fears of an honest application of the current rules.

 

[Jingthing]

It amazes me that so many have posted because this officer is picking out a section of expats! In fact this statement should be treated as one of Donald's tweets, hot air and nothing else. if you are an honest expat you should see that this is statement that he will enforce current legislation. There have been wild statements from inflated self important Immigration Officials before - and they have come to nothing. Let's wait and see what happens or move to a different area.

 

Honest people should have no fears of an honest application of the current rules.

 

It should not amaze you. I think it's historic in Pattaya for a new immigration head to announce that those on retirement extensions are going to be aggressively investigated.

 

We can only speculate on what that might mean.

 

Home visits perhaps?

 

Or perhaps or probably nothing.

 

Nobody knows yet.

 

 

 

[owl sees all]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If it means cracking down on people using visa fixers that can't or won't actually meet the national law's financial requirements, well, that is not unreasonable, but it certainly will hurt a lot of people that thought what they were doing was sort of OK based on it happening without consequence for decades.

 

IF that is what it's about, don't you think it would be useful for there to be a clear announcement that the target is people using visa fixers so that such people might have a chance to go fully legit next time if they are able? But, NO, nothing said like that. 

 

Or perhaps it means cracking down on people that are NOT using fixers because, well, you figure it out .. CA-CHING.

The first couple of yearly visas were at Nong Khai. Absolutely no probs'; there was money in the bank and I satisfied all the marriage visa requirements. The only thing that they asked me to do was get an ATM slip (back in 5 minutes) 

 

It all transferred to the Airport at Udon. All the paperwork (even the pics of the three of us in the bedroom) was on the desk from 10ish until gone 4 o'clock. The 30 or so pages of signed (both sides) file just sat there for 5/6 hours. I had a my little daughter in my arms and it was stifling hot. Very uncomfortable for the three of us. About 11ish a lady had arrived with a box and handed it over to the Immigration Officer (IO) behind the desk. They emptied the box out on a table in the back room; I could see through the window; passports and lots of them. She came back at 3-30 to collect them. I was so green then I couldn't understand what was going on.

 

The IO would periodically thumb my file. I asked the wife what it was all about. "He is looking for money between the pages" was her reply. I thought is was going to be just like Nong Khai. How wrong I was!!

 

Just after 16-00 I went to the desk and made a complaint to the lady IO. They stamped my passport with two weeks extension and told me to bring an unrelated witness from the village next time. I told the wife to inform her that I already had a yellow book and had been vetted. Waste of words that was. Two weeks later; everything was in order with the witness (and paperwork) and I got my month (I think I surrendered my passport and got a receipt). A month later, I picked up passport with my year.

 

Soon after the Immigration moved to their own building at the rear of the Police headquarters in Udon; where it still is I believe

 

Years later I did use the services of 'the lady'. Just 15k. No money in the bank required; just needed a bank account. Far more easy than being legitimate. But it shouldn't be like this surely!!

 

 

[NickJ]

Well, just wait and see if all the easy visa fix it places start closing down. 

I tend to agree that it's just all new guy banging his new drum. Seen it before. 

If they really want to clean the place up they should start with themselves first.

It sure has been super easy getting an extension of stay, based on retirement.  In Jomthien for the past four or five years. To bad they had to fix what worked so well.

Maybe he has been transferred and will enjoy thousands of people following him to where he works now.

[bkk6060]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It should not amaze you. I think it's historic in Pattaya for a new immigration head to announce that those on retirement extensions are going to be aggressively investigated.

 

We can only speculate on what that might mean.

 

Home visits perhaps?

 

Or perhaps or probably nothing.

 

Nobody knows yet.

 

 

 

I have cookies, coffee, and M-150 waiting.  Oh S, whats that knock on the door got to go..........

[Jingthing]

I have cookies, coffee, and M-150 waiting.  Oh S, whats that knock on the door got to go..........

Ready to surrender your hard drive?

[Jingthing]

Well, just wait and see if all the easy visa fix it places start closing down. 
I tend to agree that it's just all new guy banging his new drum. Seen it before. 
If they really want to clean the place up they should start with themselves first.
It sure has been super easy getting an extension of stay, based on retirement.  In Jomthien for the past four or five years. To bad they had to fix what worked so well.
Maybe he has been transferred and will enjoy thousands of people following him to where he works now.

The visa fixer issue is funny. Cracking down on them would hurt more than the expats using them. Notice they weren't mentioned.

[balo]

46 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Home visits perhaps?

If a nice man or woman in uniform makes a home visit , some expats might start enjoying it. 

[Jingthing]

If a nice man or woman in uniform makes a home visit , some expats might start enjoying it. 

Yeah sure. They're police. This isn't Kansas.

[the guest]

Of course living in Thailand does raise some interesting questions like, why? 

Why do foreigners want to live in a xenophobic country that makes it increasingly difficult to live?

 

There are so many other countries where foreigners can live, but choose Thailand instead, why?

 

Perhaps there's a plausible explanation, or maybe there should be closer scrutiny on all foreigners, given the aforementioned would in normal cases put most off from living in the country. 

[bkk6060]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah sure. They're police. This isn't Kansas.

 She certainly ain't Dorothy!

[Thai Ron]

19 hours ago, DavisH said:

Great..out of the thousands on long term visas...you managed to name how many? Most undesirables don't have long term visas because they can be easily tracked. I insist their focus on law abiding farangs is misguided. 

Well what did you expect me to do?

Run through the thousands of cases in which those on longer-term visas/extensions of stay have been caught up to no good or on the run from bad things they did back in their countries??

No thanks. I've got a life but rest assured, the examples I provided weren't even the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'd imagine the youngsters on tourist and education visas will be rubbing their hands with glee after having the holier-than-thou retirement set sneering at them for years.

I'm sure they're dying to hear anecdotes about those on "assisted" retirement and marriage extensions being denied renewals.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

Well what did you expect me to do?

Run through the thousands of cases in which those on longer-term visas/extensions of stay have been caught up to no good or on the run from bad things they did back in their countries??

No thanks. I've got a life but rest assured, the examples I provided weren't even the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'd imagine the youngsters on tourist and education visas will be rubbing their hands with glee after having the holier-than-thou retirement set sneering at them for years.

I'm sure they're dying to hear anecdotes about those on "assisted" retirement and marriage extensions being denied renewals.

To be clear I have never sneered at younger expats in Thailand facing assorted crackdowns. Yes, some obnoxious retired expats have done that on this forum, but it's not fair to assume that those nasty people represent most retired expats.

 

[Thai Ron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

To be clear I have never sneered at younger expats in Thailand. Yes, some obnoxious retired expats have on this forum but it's not fair to assume that those nasty people represent most retired expats.

 

I haven't assumed that.

 

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

Of course living in Thailand does raise some interesting questions like, why? 

Why do foreigners want to live in a xenophobic country that makes it increasingly difficult to live?

 

There are so many other countries where foreigners can live, but choose Thailand instead, why?

 

Perhaps there's a plausible explanation, or maybe there should be closer scrutiny on all foreigners, given the aforementioned would in normal cases put most off from living in the country. 

more and more long term expats are believing that the current ultra nationalist,far right wing TRUE rulers want us out

[Kim1950]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The visa fixer issue is funny. Cracking down on them would hurt more than the expats using them. Notice they weren't mentioned.

Visa Fixers, to varying degrees, exist in every county. From who you know, favors, how much money you have, your employer. Often they are completely legitimate. I find the background check to also be nebulous, there's the FBI in the US, then there is Russia or other countries where no doubt someone could easily expunge any 'rap sheet' for the right price or simply nothing was ever recorded by anybody. The ways of the world.

 

Pattaya was a beautiful beach resort during the Vietnam War, many went to Bangkok for R&R, but not for those with access to U-Tapao Airbase, a easy flight from Vietnam. I like others had great beachfront bungalows.

[YetAnother]

4 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

more and more long term expats are believing that the current ultra nationalist,far right wing TRUE rulers want us out

and a lot of us are far more seriously looking at other countries; we talk amongst ourselves about candidates based on experience

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Kim1950 said:

Visa Fixers, to varying degrees, exist in every county. From who you know, favors, how much money you have, your employer. Often they are completely legitimate. I find the background check to also be nebulous, there's the FBI in the US, then there is Russia or other countries where no doubt someone could easily expunge any 'rap sheet' for the right price or simply nothing was ever recorded by anybody. The ways of the world.

 

Pattaya was a beautiful beach resort during the Vietnam War, many went to Bangkok for R&R, but not for those with access to U-Tapao Airbase, a easy flight from Vietnam. I like others had great beachfront bungalows.

 

I think you don't know what I'm talking about.

Visa fixers in the context I am talking about are people that take money from applicants in order get extensions for people that have not met the rules by any stretch of the imagination.

For example, for the 800K bank account method, getting extensions for people that don't actually have the 800K in Thailand (or perhaps anywhere) and have not seasoned the money for the required time (two or three months).

 

I think you are totally wrong. That kind of thing does not exist in every country. I have researched legal retirement status in many nations. I know of no other nation where "fixing" that completely flouts the rules is commonplace for legal retirement status. 

 

I have no idea what percentage of retirement extension applicants use visa fixers in the way I described. But I think it's pretty damn common.

 

As far as police background checks there is no background check required that you need to submit if you never get an O-A visa. Only people that start with an O-A visa need to bother with that. It's not required to start with an O-A to get legal retirement status in Thailand.  Of course, it's very well known that Thai immigration will check for international searches for wanted criminals. That's not new at all and every year a number of expats,  including retired expats are hit by that effort, which I don't think anyone reasonable would object to.  

 

[Artisi]

On Friday, July 07, 2017 at 0:40 PM, DeeMak9 said:

 

You do understand theres a huge difference between permanent residency/citizenship and thailand's long term visas right?

Yeah, permanent residency / citizenship, you don't have to report every 90 days, renew your Thai extension every year with the same nonsense over and over year after year. 

[Thai Ron]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have no idea what percentage of retirement extension applicants use visa fixers in the way I described. But I think it's pretty damn common. 

It's very, very common.

I know several old boys for whom remaining here would be impossible without the help of a certain gentleman in Sukhumvit 71.

All of them are 55-up, living hand-to-mouth on about 15-20k a month from savings they hope will stretch until their "ship comes in".

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

It's very, very common.

I know several old boys for whom remaining here would be impossible without the help of a certain gentleman in Sukhumvit 71.

All of them are 55-up, living hand-to-mouth on about 15-20k a month from savings they hope will stretch until their "ship comes in".

Yes, I know it's very common.

A while back I even happened to meet such a Thai visa fixer businessman in a random social way.

I gingerly brought up the issue of the legality of getting extensions for people that don't even begin to qualify under the law based on the official rules and he got all huffy with me. You don't understand Thailand! Hmm, that's the problem. Yes I do. 

I also asked him if he was at all worried whether someday there would be a crackdown on people like him doing the business he was doing. He claimed to not be worried at all, but on the other hand, as you can imagine, he didn't appreciate the question, so maybe there wasn't exactly 100 percent confidence. More like 99 percent. 

[Kim1950]

44 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

I think you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Relax, it's just a matter of semantics. Google Thai Visa and you won't get Embassies, you will get a dozen agencies or supposedly law firms claiming how they can expedite any visa, and that's just the one's in the public domain. Same thing South America. I do know some things as I am planning on retiring overseas, and I am researching about Thailand, as I've lived there, however, I have.traveled to many counties and researching South America, and again they have plenty of agencies. International Living ranks Thailand poorly on ease of Retirement. Great for tourism.

 

OK, real story, I worked for a huge multinational company and did business development in China. A Chinese company wanted me to work for them. They offered a total Visa Package, family, moving costs,  even a college education for my children at Beijing University, because they were connected to the government. People can get visas into the US with a State Department connection. Who's yanking who, if I am a Chinese businessman with serious money to invest in Thailand. I am not sweating any visas, not is anybody I know sweating visas. I have flown into Hong Kong on a private jet, we never cleared customs or immigration. 

[Jingthing]

I was talking about nations with formal retirement visa programs. I am relaxed. Thailand is one of the easiest nations in the world for retirement visa programs and the "visa fixing" type of thing I described is not common in any other nation that I've researched that has a formal retirement visa program.

To be clear, I mean easy even without the dodgy fixing. There is no need normally to hire visa help here for people willing to follow the rules and that can speak English. 

Name one nation with a formal retirement visa program that you think visa fixing (not following the requirements at all) as I described is common. I will look into it because that would be news to me on a topic that I've researched personally for many years. 

Yes, most places have visa agencies that facilitate but you still need to meet the rules.

In South America they are NUTTY about getting every document apostled and the documents expire. You can't not do that. You can't pay a visa fixer to get around that. 

If they require a pension (some do) you can't get away with submitting information about a fake pension. 

There are some exceptions like Chile where the financial level rules are not set in stone, but that's under their law, they judge each case individually including cost of living of where you plan to live in Chile!

In some countries, you can't realistically get the retirement visa without paying for help because of language and bureaucracy but you STILL need to meet the rules. 

 

Again, there are two basic kinds of visa fixing.

The kind where they help do the work to smooth the language and bureaucracy issues. Fully under the law.

AND

The kind where they have ways to help you get what you need without even beginning to meet the official requirements.

I am talking about the latter. Maybe you're confused between the two kinds.