Packs of dogs damaging tourism in Ao Lak - but they only bite western visitors

[impulse]

I have to give the locals credit in my area near Asoke.  When I first moved in, I had to run a gauntlet of about 20 soi dogs in 2-3 packs in the 500 meter walk to the MRT.  Out of the 20, perhaps 4 or 5 would actually approach close enough to bite if I didn't pick up a stick (as shown to me by a Thai neighbor in my first week).

 

Flash forward a few years and there are still a lot of soi dogs, but none of the bad actors remain.  Seems they've been culled, either by chasing cars from the wrong end or by deliberate action on the part of my neighbors.  For which I salute and thank them.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by impulse

[micmichd]

20 hours ago, imagemaestro said:

I have experienced the phenomena of soi dogs attacking foreigners only.  I suspect it is because we "smell" differently to the locals due to diet or genetics.  Canines respond to strangers with barking and rushing behaviour ( in aggressive ones biting).

The average Thai response is what I find odd.   It is either indifference or amusement.  There is no or rarely any attempt to stop or control the dog or dogs. I have sometimes suspected encouragement.  The dogs undisciplined, restrained or encouraged by amusement or otherwise becomes programmed into the behaviour.

see/smell/sense foreigner = rush, bite attack      conduct unchecked or encouraged        repeat

Of course until they meet me.  Large walking stick and spray and willing to use it on them.... and angry owners if need be.

Maybe it's just that dogs bite the ones that fear them. They smell the sweat of fear. Keep a stone in your pocket to get more self-confident, and they will not bite you. 

[LawrenceN]

15 hours ago, TSF said:

Shipping them off to China and Vietnam was the best thing going, then the do-gooders made a big fuss and got that trade stopped. But turning the filthy barking biting defecating mongrels into jerky and sausages is a great idea. 

...and golf gloves.

[strikingsunset]

Where can I buy Pepper spray in Bangkok or Jomtien please ?

 

(A mate of mine was bitten outside a family mart in Jomtien this week)

[jak2002003]

Dogs don't only bite people who are scared of them.  I have been bitten by a dog I did not even know was there... when it rushed out of a garden and grabbed hold of the back of my leg as I walked past.... it gave no barking, growling warnings.. was not in a pack, did not have rabies.  I am not scared of dogs, and I was not acting aggressively or scaring it.

 

The advise some posters give about carrying about rocks, meter long sticks, pepper spray and other such things in not practical for every day.  Also talking nicely and feeding every dog you meet a sausage... can you imagine the cost of all those sausages over a year to the thousands of dogs you encounter?... Not to mention you are going to smell of sausages which might made the dogs want to bite (and chew) on you more.

 

 

 

 

[LawrenceN]

17 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

98% will back down/lose interest....

 

Right. We're talking about the 2% here.

[JHolmesJr]

20 hours ago, edwardflory said:

 " Hello puppy, how is your day going".  

I must remember this…lol/

[Kwasaki]

l learnt early on Thai dogs don't understand English.  

My Thai is not good ( maa pai ) so maybe l say come,  horse,  chair go for all l know.

Stray dogs are rounded up here about every month or so,, the Historic park is a dumping ground for unwanted dogs.

[newnative]

7 hours ago, waders123 said:

 My friend is a life long dog owner, trainer, and lover of animals. He was cornered and bitten badly even though he was trying everything to befriend the pack when they circled him and became aggressive on a paved pedestrian walkway in Pattaya.  If it weren't for a few shop owners who came running with sticks and brooms to beat the dogs off my friend could have received much worse than he did.  The Thai shop owners said to him that the problem was getting worse and worse and these dogs needed to be removed.  

He ended up with with a hefty hospital bill and a "dampened"  vacation due to massive infection and battling of rabies.  These packs need to disappear before they kill a bunch of children.  Semi-automatic 22 cal pistol with silencer + large box of ammo = problem solved.

Totally agree. Way too many wild dogs running loose all over Pattaya, Jomtien, everywhere.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

Maybe it's just that dogs bite the ones that fear them. They smell the sweat of fear. Keep a stone in your pocket to get more self-confident, and they will not bite you. 

 

Fear is the basis of the fight or flight response.  The dogs don't know if I'm going to turn the fear into running away screaming like a little girl, or into beating them over the head with a nearby piece of lumber.  But make no mistake, it starts with fear and that's healthy.  And no excuse for a dog attacking.

 

I've had soi dogs come at me full gallop from 20 meters away, so it's certainly not the smell that set them off.  I've also had soi dogs that I walked past without giving them a thought, then they snuck up and grabbed my pants by the ankle.  No smell of fear there, either.  Being the owner of several dogs that encounter other dogs on our walks (Asia, but not Thailand), I've learned that there is no way to predict how a strange dog is going to react to anything that I do.  The safest option is to keep a distance.

 

[flyingdoc]

Dogs do react to fear!  Pleasant repartit seems to go down well at times!

[inThailand]

I agree, do not be afraid of them. In fact, charge at them if they are aggressive. If that doesn't work the fake act of picking up a stone will make 99.9% of them run away like chickens. They are mostly all bark and no bite.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Dogs don't only bite people who are scared of them.  I have been bitten by a dog I did not even know was there... when it rushed out of a garden and grabbed hold of the back of my leg as I walked past.... it gave no barking, growling warnings.. was not in a pack, did not have rabies.  I am not scared of dogs, and I was not acting aggressively or scaring it.

 

The advise some posters give about carrying about rocks, meter long sticks, pepper spray and other such things in not practical for every day.  Also talking nicely and feeding every dog you meet a sausage... can you imagine the cost of all those sausages over a year to the thousands of dogs you encounter?... Not to mention you are going to smell of sausages which might made the dogs want to bite (and chew) on you more.

 

 

 

 

Why would it be impractical to carry a stick? Many do and call them walking sticks. Certainly better than getting rabies shots.

[jak2002003]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why would it be impractical to carry a stick? Many do and call them walking sticks. Certainly better than getting rabies shots.

I don't want to carry a stick around with me 24 /7.  I am only 40 so would look a bit strange having a walking stick.  

 

 

[chrisinth]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Fear is the basis of the fight or flight response.  The dogs don't know if I'm going to turn the fear into running away screaming like a little girl, or into beating them over the head with a nearby piece of lumber.  But make no mistake, it starts with fear and that's healthy.  And no excuse for a dog attacking.

 

I've had soi dogs come at me full gallop from 20 meters away, so it's certainly not the smell that set them off.  I've also had soi dogs that I walked past without giving them a thought, then they snuck up and grabbed my pants by the ankle.  No smell of fear there, either.  Being the owner of several dogs that encounter other dogs on our walks (Asia, but not Thailand), I've learned that there is no way to predict how a strange dog is going to react to anything that I do.  The safest option is to keep a distance.

 

Fear is certainly a condition, because of the fight or flight reaction it can generate as you have described above...........  But you also have to bring into account the other states of mind that can be present in the animal, such as territorial and dominance and of course, plain out aggression. The two examples you gave shout out territorial or dominance. If it was aggression they would not have stopped.

 

Dogs are social animals, this is why, if socialized properly become such good pets. A lot of people would say that their animals are part of the family, which is true as they have become part of their human pack. In the wild (in this case as soi dogs, not feral yet) the majority of dogs will seek leadership, seek becoming part of a society, and that is how packs are formed. Leaders and followers plain and simple. Once the pack is formed, forget breed and think dog. Entirely feasible for the 'alpha' to be a bitch poodle leading shepherds and rotties, which is why the pack can be so dangerous to people who can't identify the leader.

 

Getting back to the problem (and it is a huge problem) I would like to see the reports of all these 'attacks' and see how many of them were triggered by people (especially children) with their best thoughts in mind, trying to befriend the dogs. In that I mean how many reached out a hand to pet while looking at the dog in the eye that escalated the situation where the dog, followed by the pack, attacked? And after the first instance, how much of the experience is retained by the dog(s) to repeat over and over again? Because this is how they learn.

 

And with what I have said above, I am in no way trying to make the victim responsible for whatever happened. It is just my experience that people usually don't recognize the signs of what is happening until it is too late. The authorities need to take firm action of this situation across the nation and the only way to do this is by culling the strays IMO. Leave this any longer and you will start seeing deaths occurring through dog attacks IMO.

[chrisinth]

11 hours ago, waders123 said:

 My friend is a life long dog owner, trainer, and lover of animals. He was cornered and bitten badly even though he was trying everything to befriend the pack when they circled him and became aggressive on a paved pedestrian walkway in Pattaya.  If it weren't for a few shop owners who came running with sticks and brooms to beat the dogs off my friend could have received much worse than he did.  The Thai shop owners said to him that the problem was getting worse and worse and these dogs needed to be removed.  

He ended up with with a hefty hospital bill and a "dampened"  vacation due to massive infection and battling of rabies.  These packs need to disappear before they kill a bunch of children.  Semi-automatic 22 cal pistol with silencer + large box of ammo = problem solved.

 

Your friend got rabies ? In Pattaya? How long ago was this?

 

And if you are taking things to extremes, why would you need a silencer for your .22? Suppressors don't add to accuracy with weapons...................

 

And I'm sorry, you say that your friend is a dog trainer, what did he do to trigger the attack? Dogs do not attack for no reason, regardless of how small that reason may appear. Otherwise you would be reading about multiple attacks by the same pack in the same area. Then you would need to ask why the few shop owners who came to his assistance would tolerate that.

 

Because they are Thai and thick it is funny? Doubt it very much.

 

Again, this is not blaming the victim, just asking a few questions......................

[sambum]

45 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

I don't want to carry a stick around with me 24 /7.  I am only 40 so would look a bit strange having a walking stick.  

 

 

Don't talk wet, man! Are you saying that the thousands of people that have lost the use of one of their legs due to disease or war wounds are all over the age of 40 and look strange?

Edited July 22, 2017 by sambum

[JHolmesJr]

39 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

I don't want to carry a stick around with me 24 /7.  I am only 40 so would look a bit strange having a walking stick.  

 

 

 

I talk softly and carry a big stick…..but it's usually zipped up.

[sambum]

23 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

 

Your friend got rabies ? In Pattaya? How long ago was this?

 

And if you are taking things to extremes, why would you need a silencer for your .22? Suppressors don't add to accuracy with weapons...................

 

And I'm sorry, you say that your friend is a dog trainer, what did he do to trigger the attack? Dogs do not attack for no reason, regardless of how small that reason may appear. Otherwise you would be reading about multiple attacks by the same pack in the same area. Then you would need to ask why the few shop owners who came to his assistance would tolerate that.

 

Because they are Thai and thick it is funny? Doubt it very much.

 

Again, this is not blaming the victim, just asking a few questions......................

"why would you need a silencer for your .22?" Because if you were heard shooting a dog,  you would probably be seen shooting a dog and suddenly (as I've said before due to having a Thai "try it on") that mangy soi dog that no one owned would probably become somebody's Best of Breed Crufts Champion! 

 

"Then you would need to ask why the few shop owners who came to his assistance would tolerate that." The Thai shop owners  said to him that the problem was getting worse and worse and these dogs needed to be removed."  The reason why they tolerate it is probably down to Buddhism  (Not suppose to kill living things?) 

Edited July 22, 2017 by sambum

[chrisinth]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

"why would you need a silencer for your .22?" Because if you were heard shooting a dog,  you would probably be seen shooting a dog and suddenly (as I've said before due to having a Thai "try it on") that mangy soi dog that no one owned would probably become somebody's Best of Breed Crufts Champion! 

The guy was talking/imagining about sorting the entire problem out:

 

"Semi-automatic 22 cal pistol with silencer + large box of ammo = problem solved."

 

Either that or he already knows that a suppressor attached to a .22 reduces accuracy.................................

[sambum]

23 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

The guy was talking/imagining about sorting the entire problem out:

 

"Semi-automatic 22 cal pistol with silencer + large box of ammo = problem solved."

 

Either that or he already knows that a suppressor attached to a .22 reduces accuracy.................................

He could end up with a hefty bill from the owners  of deceased "prize winning dogs"!

 

But "conspiracy theories" apart, maybe waders123 should be answering the question as to why the suppressor/silencer?

Edited July 22, 2017 by sambum

[Propellerhead]

Are tactical batons legal/available in Thailand?


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[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I don't want to carry a stick around with me 24 /7.  I am only 40 so would look a bit strange having a walking stick.  

 

 

They sell collapsible Batons (ASP's and the like)  some very expensive the Thai copies are cheaper but effective as well.  also have belt holster  or can keep in pocket/backpack.

[inThailand]

A taser on a stick could be fun!

[Propellerhead]

A taser on a stick could be fun!

I used to have one back in the States. It was about 18 inches long. Just lighting it up would put any dog on notice within earshot.


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[canuckamuck]

On 21/07/2017 at 6:26 PM, dieseldave1951 said:

and if you feed they breed well done for adding to the problem

There should be a massive fine

[nontabury]

On July 21, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Lupatria said:

I was not aware xenophobic Thais are skilled on dog training.

 A number of years ago, in South Africa, some people trained their dogs to attack black people, and black people only, So it can be done. Though I very much doubt, Thai would do that.

 

[nontabury]

On July 21, 2017 at 9:04 AM, NCC1701A said:

dogs can tell if you are fearful and become more aggressive.

 

i have been in Thailand three years and have never had a single problem with soi dogs because I don't do anything aggressive. and they remember you and respond accordingly.

 

and after feeding the soi dogs on my street some hotdogs they love me now. The Thais are amazed as the dogs run to me with tails wagging. I know this run contrary to expats thinking who hate soi dogs. And if you think the dogs don't know you hate them or fear them, even at a distance, you are wrong.

 

 

 

 

Well done, you've trained these dogs to expect food from people, and in these cases probably farangs. When they don't receive what they expect, they can be inclined to demand,and you are correct,they can tell if the person/s are fearful and then if nothing is forthcoming, ATTACK.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by nontabury

[nontabury]

On July 21, 2017 at 3:04 PM, YetAnother said:

The way it was explained to me is if you're in a public place for example the middle of a public Street you can do anything that you like to the dog including killing it

if the dog is on private property you cannot do anything to the dog

Don't think so. Some Thai people considered them a money makers.

My Thai f.i.l,. While on his motor bike, hit and killed a feral soi dog. Half an hour later, a Thai bully came and demanded 500bht, claiming the dog was his prized possession. Since then I 'be heard of similar instances.

[AGLV0121]

On 7/20/2017 at 9:21 PM, webfact said:

friendly mutts wagging their tails innocently.

 

I am a Thai dog. Trust me!