Red shirts reconciled to grim future

rooster59 · July 22, 2017

Red shirts reconciled to grim future

By THE SUNDAY NATION

JATUPORN PROMPAN has become the latest – and most senior – red-shirt leader to be sent to jail, and this seems to be further weakening the movement.

Earlier, at least 12 leaders of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) had been sentenced to imprisonment in separate cases. Some of them are serving time in prison while others have appealed the court verdicts against them and have been released on bail.

The Supreme Court last Thursday sentenced Jatuporn, the UDD chairman and a key Pheu Thai Party politician, to a year in jail for defaming former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Shortly after the verdict was reported, his Facebook fan page posted Jatuporn’s photo with a message thanking “all the democracy lovers” for their support.

“Till we meet again,” said the message, which stated that Jatuporn was at the Bangkok Remand Prison.

This was the fourth time he has been put behind bars over the past decade. In 2007, he and some other red-shirt leaders were detained after they surrendered on charges of inciting public disorder and opted not to seek bail.

In 2011, a court cancelled bail for Jatuporn in a terrorism case after finding that he broke some of the conditions for temporary release. Last year, his bail was revoked again after another violation of bail conditions. He was released temporarily early this year due to health reasons and his “show of remorse”, according to court.

The UDD was first formed in 2006 to oppose the military coup earlier that year which overthrew the government of Thaksin Shinawatra. It later also opposed the post-coup government, but stopped protesting after the 2007 general elections when Thaksin’s proxy People’s Power Party won.

In 2009, after a Democrat-led government headed by Abhisit was formed, the red shirts held anti-government rallies in April, alleging that the coalition was formed undemocratically as one faction included defectors from Thaksin’s party.

Some red-shirt leaders claimed protesters were killed during clashes with security forces, but authorities dismissed the allegation. Jatuporn called Abhisit a “tyrant whose hands were stained with blood”, an accusation that led to the Democrat leader launching a defamation case against him and eventually the high court verdict last week.

The red shirts took to the streets once again in March 2010 – just over a week after the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders ordered that Bt46 billion in Thaksin’s assets be seized, on the grounds that he had made financial gain from abusing his power while in office.

For more than two months the street protests continued and, this time, deaths of protesters actually occurred. More than 90 people were killed and some 2,000 others were injured during the political unrest. In addition to many protesters, military and police officers, foreign journalists and local residents were among the fatalities.

During the two-year duration of the Abhisit government’s tenure, the red-shirt movement was at its peak, becoming a highly powerful political group and leading a controversial campaign to “overthrow the elite”.

At the Asean Summit in 2009, which Thailand hosted in Pattaya, UDD leaders led a large group of red-shirt protesters who stormed the meeting venue. The incident forced an embarrassed government to cancel the meeting involving leaders from all 10 Asean member countries and “dialogue partner” states.

Thirteen protesters, including nine red-shirt leaders, were each sentenced to four years in jail in connection with the incident. The Appeal Court in March rejected their requests for bail, resulting in them being sent to jail. However, they have appealed the imprisonment verdict in the Supreme Court.

When UDD secretary-general Nattawut Saikua visited Jatuporn at the Bangkok Remand Prison, he said that people involved in any fight would inevitably suffer from pain and wounds.

The red shirts movement would continue to be active, although its top leader “has lost his freedom today”, Nattawut said.

“The red shirts have suffered repeatedly. Today there has been more suffering for us. But the pains will power us to stay strong,” he added.

After being granted bail early this year, Jatuporn told the media that his life in detention was like getting ordained as a monk, with strict daily routines and schedules.

“Prison is a graveyard for living people. You need to make your everyday life happy,” he said.

And when he visited the red-shirt leaders jailed at a Chon Buri prison for the Asean Summit incident, Jatuporn said the UDD figures were well aware of their destiny after a decade of political fight.

“We have only two choices – death or jail,” he said.

Judging from their recent remarks after they and their colleagues were sent behind bars, it appears some key red-shirt leaders have conceded to their fate.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30321528

Bluespunk · July 22, 2017

Boo, hoo, hoo, leaders of violent street thugs end up in gaol.

Good.

candide · July 22, 2017

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Boo, hoo, hoo, leaders of violent street thugs end up in gaol.

Good.

What happened to the violent yellow shirts?

Samui Bodoh · July 22, 2017

There is much to dislike about the red-Shirts.

However, for better or worse, they have brought the issues of poverty and lack of opportunities for political participation to the fore. And given the disparities of wealth and power in Thailand, that is a good thing.

Until Thailand manages to allow those voices, concentrated in the north and north east, to have a legitimate opportunity to participate, the troubles will continue.

People can be put in jail, but the ideas that led to the Red Shirts remain, and ideas tend to stick around.

ChidlomDweller · July 22, 2017

32 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Boo, hoo, hoo, leaders of violent street thugs end up in gaol.

Good.

Are they really that violent, given the level of injustice in this country?

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy

Damrongsak · July 22, 2017

Defamation charges... All authorities crap ice cream, so don't stir it. That's true all over the world. Here in the USA, we just have many more flavors.

sweatalot · July 23, 2017

"The UDD was first formed in 2006 to oppose the military coup"

Truth:

The UDD was created in 2006 by Thaksin as his army to bring his money back and bring him back to power so he could continue robbing the country

"The red shirts took to the streets once again in March 2010 – just over a week after the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders ordered that Bt46 billion in Thaksin’s assets be seized"

Clear democratic action: bring back stolen money to the robber - was that intended to help the people?

Edited July 23, 2017 by sweatalot

TallGuyJohninBKK · July 23, 2017

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

However, for better or worse, they have brought the issues of poverty and lack of opportunities for political participation to the fore. And given the disparities of wealth and power in Thailand, that is a good thing.

Until Thailand manages to allow those voices, concentrated in the north and north east, to have a legitimate opportunity to participate, the troubles will continue.

Perhaps the red shirts organization would have a bit more credibility if they weren't led, and owe their unquestioning allegiance to, a fugitive from the law and a corruption sentence who used to be, and perhaps still is, one of the richest men (formerly) in Thailand. One who illegally used his former position of power to substantially increase his personal wealth and of those in his inner circle -- all the while his followers continued to be scrapping for table scraps.

Edited July 23, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

Bluespunk · July 23, 2017

7 hours ago, candide said:

What happened to the violent yellow shirts?

Gaol them as well.

Bluespunk · July 23, 2017

6 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Are they really that violent, given the level of injustice in this country?

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy

They are, and always have been, violent, intolerant, street thugs, with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own.

heybruce · July 23, 2017

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

They are, and always have been, violent, intolerant, street thugs, with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own.

How do you feel about violent military thugs with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own? The kind that also have no respect for constitutions and hold themselves above the law?

Bluespunk · July 23, 2017

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

How do you feel about violent military thugs with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own? The kind that also have no respect for constitutions and hold themselves above the law?

Exactly the same way.

There is no difference.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Bluespunk

scorecard · July 23, 2017

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

There is much to dislike about the red-Shirts.

However, for better or worse, they have brought the issues of poverty and lack of opportunities for political participation to the fore. And given the disparities of wealth and power in Thailand, that is a good thing.

Until Thailand manages to allow those voices, concentrated in the north and north east, to have a legitimate opportunity to participate, the troubles will continue.

People can be put in jail, but the ideas that led to the Red Shirts remain, and ideas tend to stick around.

"However, for better or worse, they have brought the issues of poverty and lack of opportunities for political participation to the fore. And given the disparities of wealth and power in Thailand, that is a good thing."

I rather doubt this is a realistic summation. The red shirts did basically nothing about poverty. When did the red shirts as a 'group' ever make / discuss / announce a manifesto specifically about poverty with specific big picture policies and mooted specific actions and investment aimed specifically at getting large numbers of Thai people, quickly, into a much better quality of life? Never. What did they do to reform education, sorely needed to give the poor more opportunity to generate business or gain better employment? Nothing whatever. The reality is that they have never made any red shirt polices about the development of Thailand. They can't they just do the bidding as ordered by their owner / financier.

On the other hand they had no hesitation to do the bidding of their ultra rich absconded boss (they wouldn't dare not to), mainly aimed at getting the paymasters' gang into power to initiate a whitewash and regain the premiership and therefore access to the trough for the members of the 'yes men' salaried gang? What's this got to do with alleviating poverty?

I do agree there is a large and unacceptable disparity between the rich and the poor. Lets remember that the paymaster was handed a telecoms monopoly on a platter (no call for bids etc., to get a license, and at a time when it was solid policy that all telecoms should be owned and managed by the state) he charged exhorbatent service / calls rates and became very very rich. Did he share this wealth with the poor? Close to zero.

" Until Thailand manages to allow those voices, concentrated in the north and north east, to have a legitimate opportunity to participate, the troubles will continue."

Yes this does need more attention and in many ways.

Was it the state that kept them silent (if that's in fact true)? There is certainly truth that state mechanisms had way too much control over these people and there is still a lot of work to be done to gain a scenario where public servants at large (including the RTP) are forced back into the position of being the servants of the people / the folks paid to do the will of the people. In reality the RTP for many years were the servants of the paymaster. Did the red shirts address this in any way/ Totally no.

Did the red shirts ever specifically ever promote (even discuss) the generation of the scenario where public servants at large (including the RTP) are forced back into the position of being the servants of the people / the folks paid to do the will of the people. In reality the RTP for many years were the servants of the paymaster. No they didn't.

In fact the red shirts contributed to keeping the good folks of the North and even more strongly the North East under control e.g. 'the red democracy schools' which were a total sham, just hate spruking venues.

"People can be put in jail, but the ideas that led to the Red Shirts remain, and ideas tend to stick around."

I repeat my comments above... Plus I have concerns that if their is violence it will be generated by the red shirts for their own selfish ends, in reality the selfish ends of their criminal highly corrupt immoral paymaster not on behalf of anybody else.

Edited July 23, 2017 by scorecard

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

They are, and always have been, violent, intolerant, street thugs, with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own.

Funny how, if red be so violent. Why most people die are red. Seem most violence come from elsewhere.

canuckamuck · July 23, 2017

Resistance is feudal!

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"However, for better or worse, they have brought the issues of poverty and lack of opportunities for political participation to the fore. And given the disparities of wealth and power in Thailand, that is a good thing."

I rather doubt this is a realistic summation. The red shirts did basically nothing about poverty. When did the red shirts as a 'group' ever make / discuss / announce a manifesto specifically about poverty with specific big picture policies and mooted specific actions and investment aimed specifically at getting large numbers of Thai people, quickly, into a much better quality of life? Never. What did they do to reform education, sorely needed to give the poor more opportunity to generate business or gain better employment? Nothing whatever. The reality is that they have never made any red shirt polices about the development of Thailand. They can't they just do the bidding as ordered by their owner / financier.

On the other hand they had no hesitation to do the bidding of their ultra rich absconded boss (they wouldn't dare not to), mainly aimed at getting the paymasters' gang into power to initiate a whitewash and regain the premiership and therefore access to the trough for the members of the 'yes men' salaried gang? What's this got to do with alleviating poverty?

I do agree there is a large and unacceptable disparity between the rich and the poor. Lets remember that the paymaster was handed a telecoms monopoly on a platter (no call for bids etc., to get a license, and at a time when it was solid policy that all telecoms should be owned and managed by the state) he charged exhorbatent service / calls rates and became very very rich. Did he share this wealth with the poor? Close to zero.

" Until Thailand manages to allow those voices, concentrated in the north and north east, to have a legitimate opportunity to participate, the troubles will continue."

Yes this does need more attention and in many ways.

Was it the state that kept them silent (if that's in fact true)? There is certainly truth that state mechanisms had way too much control over these people and there is still a lot of work to be done to gain a scenario where public servants at large (including the RTP) are forced back into the position of being the servants of the people / the folks paid to do the will of the people. In reality the RTP for many years were the servants of the paymaster. Did the red shirts address this in any way/ Totally no.

Did the red shirts ever specifically ever promote (even discuss) the generation of the scenario where public servants at large (including the RTP) are forced back into the position of being the servants of the people / the folks paid to do the will of the people. In reality the RTP for many years were the servants of the paymaster. No they didn't.

In fact the red shirts contributed to keeping the good folks of the North and even more strongly the North East under control e.g. 'the red democracy schools' which were a total sham, just hate spruking venues.

"People can be put in jail, but the ideas that led to the Red Shirts remain, and ideas tend to stick around."

I repeat my comments above... Plus I have concerns that if their is violence it will be generated by the red shirts for their own selfish ends, in reality the selfish ends of their criminal highly corrupt immoral paymaster not on behalf of anybody else.

Look like you don't know anything Udd just know yello propoganda. So sad.

http://www.southeastasianstudies.uni-freiburg.de/Content/files/occasional-paper-series/op-14_chachavalpongpun.pdf/at_download/file

The UDD issued six objectives of its movement: to achieve democracy and sovereignty belonging to the people; unite all people to fight against the aristocracy/elite network; non-violence; resolve economic problems of the people; establish a ‘true rule of law’ and eliminate double standards, and; cancel the 2007 constitution and reintroduce the 1997 people’s constitution.

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Perhaps the red shirts organization would have a bit more credibility if they weren't led, and owe their unquestioning allegiance to, a fugitive from the law and a corruption sentence who used to be, and perhaps still is, one of the richest men (formerly) in Thailand. One who illegally used his former position of power to substantially increase his personal wealth and of those in his inner circle -- all the while his followers continued to be scrapping for table scraps.

False about thaksin use position to increase personal wealth. Just propaganda.

http://www.newmandala.org/a-response-to-vanina-sucharitkul/

How did Thaksin’s telecommunications businesses actually fare during his tenure, given all the ‘countless measures’ that he allegedly used to benefit them?” The numbers speak for themselves here. As you noted, the Supreme Court chose to confiscate around US$ 1.4 billion of his fortune (the difference between the shares’ values on the day he took office and the values when they were sold to Temasek). However, the Courts failed to take into account that Shin shares gained 121% over the period, which was actually less than the benchmark Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) index gain of 128%.

scorecard · July 23, 2017

2 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

Look like you don't know anything Udd just know yello propoganda. So sad.

http://www.southeastasianstudies.uni-freiburg.de/Content/files/occasional-paper-series/op-14_chachavalpongpun.pdf/at_download/file

The UDD issued six objectives of its movement: to achieve democracy and sovereignty belonging to the people; unite all people to fight against the aristocracy/elite network; non-violence; resolve economic problems of the people; establish a ‘true rule of law’ and eliminate double standards, and; cancel the 2007 constitution and reintroduce the 1997 people’s constitution.

Yes I'm aware of this document and specifically half way down page 12 - I repeat my earlier comments, nice fluffy statement, and what did they do specifically to achieve any of these objectives? Nothing, they can't, they are not autonomous from their financier.

Further, I have no respect for the the main author of this paper, he has shown his very red colours and red slants many times.

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

They are, and always have been, violent, intolerant, street thugs, with absolutely no respect for any point of view but their own.

Even these ones?

This is what red shirt look like!

chainarong · July 23, 2017

Whether you like em or not , the red shirts played and continue to play an important part in Thailand's history, one can't see them having any influence in any revolution or peoples revolt , as that will come from another quarter, unexpected, maybe while Prayut is opening a high speed rail system somewhere...........................................

djjamie · July 23, 2017

Criminals belong in jail.

Wont be long before he is out again inciting violence though.

ChidlomDweller · July 23, 2017

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Yes I'm aware of this document and specifically half way down page 12 - I repeat my earlier comments, nice fluffy statement, and what did they do specifically to achieve any of these objectives? Nothing, they can't, they are not autonomous from their financier.

Further, I have no respect for the the main author of this paper, he has shown his very red colours and red slants many times.

I agree the redshirts are pretty terrible by international standards, but what have the elites currently in power done for the poor during the past 80 years?

Personally I'm not convinced Thaksin's real sin was corruption, in the sense of being unusually corrupt by Thai standards. His main sin was threatening the elites' hold on power.

In the end I like neither, but the psychopath class hiso elites are the ones that make me want to puke. The redshirts (the body of the movement, not the leaders) I see motivated mostly by well-justified anger, which is at least understandable.

I won't shed a tear for Thaksin or his sister. For instance, she let her own supporters rot in jail for LM offences while in power. This, the amnesty bill and other things made me think there was hope for democratic change at some point and political space for a new party to come in. Now, everything is frozen again, so well done to the coup supporters here. The (horribly misnamed) Democrat Party will never give an inch when they can always count on the military to do their bidding.

I'd like ask those who are so agitated against Thaksin, what do you think are the prospects for the poor in Thailand? What is the way forward for them? At least with Thaksin (for ulterior motives, but still) there was hope for them.

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

2 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

I agree the redshirts are pretty terrible by international standards, but what have the elites currently in power done for the poor during the past 80 years?

Personally I'm not convinced Thaksin's real sin was corruption, in the sense of being unusually corrupt by Thai standards. His main sin was threatening the elites' hold on power.

In the end I like neither, but the psychopath class hiso elites are the ones that make me want to puke. The redshirts (the body of the movement, not the leaders) I see motivated mostly by well-justified anger, which is at least understandable.

I won't shed a tear for Thaksin or his sister. For instance, she let her own supporters rot in jail for LM offences while in power. This, the amnesty bill and other things made me think there was hope for democratic change at some point and political space for a new party to come in. Now, everything is frozen again, so well done to the coup supporters here. The (horribly misnamed) Democrat Party will never give an inch when they can always count on the military to do their bidding.

I'd like ask those who are so agitated against Thaksin, what do you think are the prospects for the poor in Thailand? What is the way forward for them? At least with Thaksin (for ulterior motives, but still) there was hope for them.

Very reasonable views( I think bit harsh on yingluck but still reasonable).

The Deerhunter · July 23, 2017

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Boo, hoo, hoo, leaders of violent street thugs end up in gaol.

Good.

Yes; but only for saying nasty things against Mark. What about all the other things they have on him. The U-tube vids of him inciting mayhem & mass destruction. "One million of you bring a litre of petrol each and with one million litres we will burn Bangkok." (Not exact quote. I am too lazy to find it and quote it exact but words to that effect. We have all heard it and seen it with subtitles (presumably correct.) There was heaps more that could have put him away for ever but jailed for one years for slandering another politician, for heavens' sakes................. Get real. Surely he doesn't have connections that good?

sujoop · July 23, 2017

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

"The UDD was first formed in 2006 to oppose the military coup"

Truth:

The UDD was created in 2006 by Thaksin as his army to bring his money back and bring him back to power so he could continue robbing the country

"The red shirts took to the streets once again in March 2010 – just over a week after the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders ordered that Bt46 billion in Thaksin’s assets be seized"

Clear democratic action: bring back stolen money to the robber - was that intended to help the people?

Also, note in the 'other' paper Red Shirt leader Weng is making familiar threats again (paraphrasing) that on Aug 1 and 25 the turnout will be bigger (if the Govt tries to prevent them) and then the 'handling of people' coming to the court on those days 'will be difficult' and finally stating that 'If mistakes happen', the Govt will cause damage to themselves'..... (sounds like a veiled threat or the outline of a plan to do something and blame the Govt/Army?) One wonders what the Red Shirt leader is either party to, or has prior knowledge of? (seen this movie before).

ChidlomDweller · July 23, 2017

2 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

Very reasonable views( I think bit harsh on yingluck but still reasonable).

I saw a documentary (forgot where) where jailed supporters voiced their disappointed that she didn't lift a finger to help them. In my opinion the Thaksins are the least bad option and I'm quite sure Thailand would be in a much better state economicially and in terms of economic disparity if there never had been a coup in 2006. There would have been many unpleasant side effects however and Thaksin would have installed himself and his family, as a more corrupt LKY-style leader. In the early 2000s, the Economist described him perfectly as a Thai Berlusconi. From the poor's point of view, I'm pretty sure they would be better of now though, even for cynical reasons.

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

Just now, ChidlomDweller said:

I saw a documentary (forgot where) where jailed supporters voiced their disappointed that she didn't lift a finger to help them. In my opinion the Thaksins are the least bad option and I'm quite sure Thailand would be in a much better state economicially and in terms of economic disparity if there never had been a coup in 2006. There would have been many unpleasant side effects however and Thaksin would have installed himself and his family, as a more corrupt LKY-style leader. In the early 2000s, the Economist described him perfectly as a Thai Berlusconi. From the poor's point of view, I'm pretty sure they would be better of now though, even for cynical reasons.

Nobody in Thailand can fight LM laws. Every coup in Thailand army say same two thing. Protect monarchy and stop corruption. If yingluck help LM prisoner coup come quickly. Yeah thaksin want to be LKY but eventually he vote out for sure. Singapore never have strong opposition like ptp have democrat.

ChidlomDweller · July 23, 2017

27 minutes ago, sujoop said:

Here you go:

Red leader hate speech and applause after kids killed

Or this: Burn bangkok

Or this: Arisman burn

Or Thaksin burn:

The context you leave out is that they've been robbed of democracy by a psychopath elite class for 3 times in 10 years. I understand the anger and then things get said. There's been violent revolutions for much less. I suppose you're abhorred about the current anti-government protests in Venezuela as well? Any negative thoughts you want to share about those who resisted the lawful authority of the Islamic State?

Not condoning violence, but what IS the path forward in your opinion? Real question. Tell us what the poor in this country should do. I'll tell you what you imply: they should just accept their fate and be forever subjugated, that's what you think.

Edited July 23, 2017 by ChidlomDweller

Pridilives · July 23, 2017

8 minutes ago, sujoop said:

Here you go:

Red leader hate speech and applause after kids killed

Or this: Burn bangkok

Or this: Arisman burn

Or Thaksin burn:

Any videos of pdrc speeches in your collection?

heybruce · July 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

Nobody in Thailand can fight LM laws. Every coup in Thailand army say same two thing. Protect monarchy and stop corruption. If yingluck help LM prisoner coup come quickly. Yeah thaksin want to be LKY but eventually he vote out for sure. Singapore never have strong opposition like ptp have democrat.

" Every coup in Thailand army say same two thing. Protect monarchy and stop corruption."

Note that they never mention defending the people, or democratic government, or the country. Also, diverting a significant part of the military budget into the pockets of the generals, and making huge profits from managing border smuggling, aren't corruption in the minds of the generals, to them these things are just traditional ways of doing business.

People who think the generals are interested in the well-being of all Thais are fools. For all its many faults, democracy allows the people to change government peacefully. It's change that the generals are really opposed to.

Sign In

Red shirts reconciled to grim future

Recommended Posts

Red shirts reconciled to grim future

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Posted Images

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Topics

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US