Bad ISPs _ question/ comments

[janclaes47]

1 minute ago, muratremix said:

VPN unlimited is a PUBLIC commercial vpn service.

They are easier to block / throttle.

Especially if several people in 3BB using same VPN server with you.

 

Thats why private vpn on vps servers are better.

 

Please explain where it is defined if a VPN is public or private.

 

VPNunlimted has it's OWN servers, so I guess that means private.

 

From a review that is defintely not pro VPNunlimted.

 

https://thebestvpn.com/reviews/vpn-unlimited/

VPN Unlimited Quick Facts

VPN Unlimited’s network has over 300 servers located inside more than 50 different countries across the world.

 

 

[janclaes47]

2 hours ago, muratremix said:

Because I stay away from public vpn providers maybe? I buy 5$/month digitalocean 512MB kvm vps and install openvpn and proxy and thats it.

 

I looked up Digital Ocean, and from what I can understand they don't even have VPN service that would be of use to connect to IPTV services, unless those services are managed by yourself.

 

Is that correct?

[muratremix]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Please explain where it is defined if a VPN is public or private.

 

VPNunlimted has it's OWN servers, so I guess that means private.

 

From a review that is defintely not pro VPNunlimted.

 

https://thebestvpn.com/reviews/vpn-unlimited/

VPN Unlimited Quick Facts

VPN Unlimited’s network has over 300 servers located inside more than 50 different countries across the world.

 

 

having own servers has nothing to do.

If I'm isp and want to block VPN servers, I'll google vpn providers and block their servers as their IP is usually the same.

 

Digitalocean is VPS provider, not vpn. You put vpn yourself. Thats why its harder to block because they are not shared with hundreds of people.

[janclaes47]

39 minutes ago, muratremix said:

having own servers has nothing to do.

If I'm isp and want to block VPN servers, I'll google vpn providers and block their servers as their IP is usually the same.

 

Digitalocean is VPS provider, not vpn. You put vpn yourself. Thats why its harder to block because they are not shared with hundreds of people.

So in short you wanted to sound interesting by going totally off topic?

 

My mention of VPN blocking is because that is the use for the average member on this forum, and what this thread is about, having decent speeds to connect to live streams from abroad.

 

My understanding is still, since you decided not to respond to my question, that a VPS is of no use if the purpose of the internet connection is to connect to IPTV services abroad. I happily will stand corrected if you proof I'm wrong in that assumption.

 

If so it is of no importance to the poster I replied, or most other involved in this thread, that 3BB doesn't block VPS.

[muratremix]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

I looked up Digital Ocean, and from what I can understand they don't even have VPN service that would be of use to connect to IPTV services, unless those services are managed by yourself.

 

Is that correct?

That is correct. Digitalocean is not a VPN provider.

But it can be used as one.

[KittenKong]

20 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Also be aware that on the VDSL there is a restriction on VPN.

Before I had the ADSL and when connected to Singapore VPN I would get good speed results to UK ( about 12MB) . I was on the 18/1.8 ADSL inter.

Yesterday I did the following test on and Android device connected by LAN

I am on 30/10 VDSL

Without VPN I get ~11Mb to UK and 25Mb to Singapore.

When I connect to same Singapore VPN I get 6Mb to UK.

So I pick up my device and drive to my friends house. He is still on the 18/1.8 ADSL package.

Without VPN he gets 18Mb to Singapore and 16Mb to UK on my Android device

With Singapore VPN connected the speed result to UK is 12Mb.

So while his speed to Singapore without VPN is significant lower than mine, the test to UK is double with VPN enabled.

 

My test with 3BB VDSL with @inter option:

 

VPN off.

Kuala Lumpur 30Mbs

Slough 24Mbs

 

VPN on (Singapore)

Kuala Lumpur 30Mbs

Slough 22Mbs

 

[maxpower]

4 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Please explain where it is defined if a VPN is public or private.

 

Personal VPN would be a less confusing description. Only you get to use it.

 

Personal DIY VPN's on servers with quality bandwidth have a few advantages but the rest is just an insecure fixed IP with your name attached to it.

 

As for jumping over restricted gateways, China currently employs the most convenient methods. 
 

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

 

My test with 3BB VDSL with @inter option:

 

VPN off.

Kuala Lumpur 30Mbs

Slough 24Mbs

 

VPN on (Singapore)

Kuala Lumpur 30Mbs

Slough 22Mbs

 

 

Since you mention Slough I take it that you use Ookla flash based.

 

With Ookla I also get maximum test results, and I'm sure you know why.

 

Try the same tests with Testmy.net and report back.

 

Any way, your inter option may be what makes the difference, but is clear that this option isn't available any more for new customers.

Edited August 5, 2017 by janclaes47

[Caiman]

Debating different VPNs is off topic as this should be about discovered limitations of ISP. One thing I learned from my initial 3BB experience was not to rely on any speedtests. I spent 2 weekends popping in to test my Thai neighbour's 30/10 VDSL and was impressed by testmy.net results right into late evening.

Installed 50/10 VDSL as it was then and results were still excellent but every evening without fail my international IPTV service would buffer to the point it was unusable. I use a lesser known paid VPN that to this day has no problem accessing the BBC iPlayer and this never helped to eliminate buffering but did previously with TOT Winet and True Cable.

As I see in many posts quoting and displaying impressive testmy.net results doesn't necessarily mean that you will guarantee successful streaming from international servers as shown in the case of 3BB VDSL without@inter.

In conclusion for those looking for a NEW ISP and your priority is accessing international IPTV services in the evenings 3BB 30/10 VDSL may disappoint, the 50/20 has now gone so no longer an option for new customers.

[wpcoe]

9 hours ago, Caiman said:

...the 50/20 has now gone so no longer an option for new customers.

Boy, 3BB seems to be on a roll with xDSL.  For new subscribers they drop ADSL, then drop the @inter option, and now they eliminate 50/20?  Is the only option for condo dwellers the VDSL 30/10 package, then?  

[muratremix]

21 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Boy, 3BB seems to be on a roll with xDSL.  For new subscribers they drop ADSL, then drop the @inter option, and now they eliminate 50/20?  Is the only option for condo dwellers the VDSL 30/10 package, then?  

They offer 100/30 on fiber for 700 thb.

Thats why they removed 50/20 for 700 thb on VDSL in my opinion. 

 

I'm getting 70/24 (65/22 actual) speed from 50/20 vdsl (no inter)

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, muratremix said:

They offer 100/30 on fiber for 700 thb.

Thats why they removed 50/20 for 700 thb on VDSL in my opinion. 

 

I'm getting 70/24 (65/22 actual) speed from 50/20 vdsl (no inter)

 

Fibre isn't available everywhere yet, they told me 12 months ago that it would be available in my area within the next 2 months, last week they told me "maybe" another 12 months.

 

So it doesn't make sense to remove VDSL packages, if no other option is available.

 

I have now the 30/10 VDSL and get 33/4.5

[wpcoe]

2 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Boy, 3BB seems to be on a roll with xDSL.  For new subscribers they drop ADSL, then drop the @inter option, and now they eliminate 50/20?  Is the only option for condo dwellers the VDSL 30/10 package, then?  

 

1 hour ago, muratremix said:

They offer 100/30 on fiber for 700 thb.

Thats why they removed 50/20 for 700 thb on VDSL in my opinion. 

 

I'm getting 70/24 (65/22 actual) speed from 50/20 vdsl (no inter)

 

In Pattaya & Jomtien, at least, they won't install fibre in condo buildings.  Even low-rise buildings.  So the ONLY offering for condo dwellers is now VDSL 30/10.

[janclaes47]

12 hours ago, Caiman said:

Installed 50/10 VDSL as it was then and results were still excellent but every evening without fail my international IPTV service would buffer to the point it was unusable.

It's now 20.45 and for the past 20 minutes I have NBC Golf 1080p on one device and Investigation Discovery 720p playing simultaneous on another device without a single hick up, so I doubt they throttle streaming.

 

 

These are both streams from free addon in my Kodi build on the regular 30/10 VDSL

 

The problem you had might be with your IPTV source instead.

[KittenKong]

On 05/08/2017 at 6:12 PM, janclaes47 said:

Since you mention Slough I take it that you use Ookla flash based.

With Ookla I also get maximum test results, and I'm sure you know why.

Try the same tests with Testmy.net and report back.

Any way, your inter option may be what makes the difference, but is clear that this option isn't available any more for new customers.

 

Speedtests are fairly pointless at best, but as you asked for it here you go:

 

w/o VPN
SIN
28/20

LON
10/2

 

with VPN (SIN)
SIN
31/12

LON
12/10

 

Dont ask me to explain it because I cant. Nor do I care particularly. My 3BB VDSL 50/20 with @inter works OK.

 

[janclaes47]

 

19 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

On 05/08/2017 at 6:12 PM, janclaes47 said:

Since you mention Slough I take it that you use Ookla flash based.

With Ookla I also get maximum test results, and I'm sure you know why.

Try the same tests with Testmy.net and report back.

Any way, your inter option may be what makes the difference, but is clear that this option isn't available any more for new customers.

 

Speedtests are fairly pointless at best, but as you asked for it here you go:

 

w/o VPN
SIN
28/20

LON
10/2

 

with VPN (SIN)
SIN
31/12

LON
12/10

 

Dont ask me to explain it because I cant. Nor do I care particularly. My 3BB VDSL 50/20 with @inter works OK.

 

Why can't you as an overpaid It consultant, as you claimed in another thread, explain it?

 

 

The explanation is quite simple even for an IT noob like me.

 

Testmy.net downloads a file and increases the size of the file a few times depending on your real speed while Ookla, even the beta version, continuously adds threads during the test. So it works same as a torrent download.

 

Easy to see, because with the ookla speed test your speed will increase, and only increase, gradually each time a thread is added.

 

With testmy.net your speed will fluctuate throughout the test, because it is only common sense that there is no internet connection in the whole world, and for sure not in Thailand, that is 100% stable.

 

So if you couldn't figure that out, you were indeed way overpaid, or not an IT consultant at all.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by janclaes47

[Caiman]

No

It's now 20.45 and for the past 20 minutes I have NBC Golf 1080p on one device and Investigation Discovery 720p playing simultaneous on another device without a single hick up, so I doubt they throttle streaming.  

 

These are both streams from free addon in my Kodi build on the regular 30/10 VDSL

 

The problem you had might be with your IPTV source instead.

 

 

There was no problem with the IPTV source. 

Added inter package and buffering stopped.

 

Are you streaming from international servers as streaming within Thailand was never a problem for me either?

 

 

 

 

 

[Caiman]

^ My iptv servers are located in Australia, USA and France.

 

Maybe Singapore is OK with 3BB 30/10 VDSL.?

 

Slightly Off Topic: Are there any decent IPTV providers with Singapore servers?

 

[faraday]

If Speed Tests are pointless, why do they exist & how can we get an accurate measurement?

 

Simple answers please.

[KittenKong]

8 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

The explanation is quite simple even for an IT noob like me.

 

No, that's the explanation as to why the results from the two speed test sites are different. Anyone with half a brain knows that, as you have demonstrated.

 

What I cant explain with any reasonable degree of certainty (and neither can you) is the disparity between the four results obtained from the second speed test site, as I posted immediately above my comment.

 

Another thing I cant explain is why you fail to understand the difference between the two.

[KittenKong]

10 minutes ago, faraday said:

If Speed Tests are pointless, why do they exist & how can we get an accurate measurement?

 

Simple answers please.

 

They exist because people like to look at them. They are not completely pointless but neither are they very accurate, especially as the results will vary a lot depending on what you are trying to do.

 

For example, by "speed" some people might mean "how quickly a webpage loads" or even "how quickly a webpage starts to load". Other people might mean "how quickly I can download a big file" or "can I watch HD TV on it" and those, being bandwidth related, are really the correct meanings.

 

In practice the actual bandwidth (aka "speed") will vary according to what type of data is being sent, and according to the way - and how fast - the sending server is sending it, and indeed according to how many different servers the data is coming from. Thai ISPs notably tend to throttle long-term bandwidth demands whilst letting short-term ones go through without any (or much) throttling. This tends to give a false (but better) reading on speed tests though the user may still get buffering problems with streamed video even when other types of data arrive faster. The ISPs notably also tend to throttle more in the evening peak hours than during the day, and this may be voluntary or involuntary on their part.

 

Where I was back in Europe I could download data or stream video at the full possible rate of my ADSL from anywhere in the world 24/7 as the ISP did not throttle the connection at all. That generally doesnt happen here.

[Caiman]

If Speed Tests are pointless, why do they exist & how can we get an accurate measurement?

 

Simple answers please.

ISP may show adequate speed/bandwidth for your needs but in reality they may restrict depending on what you are doing especially international streaming.

 

Call me a cynic but as we move up the technology ladder ADSL, VDSL, Fiber, private ipv4, ipv6, NAT, CGN etc. the ISPs seem to get more controlling. That's why some are still happy on ADSL despite lower speeds but the current push is to Fiber.

 

[muratremix]

13 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

 

In Pattaya & Jomtien, at least, they won't install fibre in condo buildings.  Even low-rise buildings.  So the ONLY offering for condo dwellers is now VDSL 30/10.

 

How stupid of them? AIS offers up to 75Mbps VDSL to condos, same packages but up to 75 mbps speed.

[janclaes47]

4 hours ago, Caiman said:

14 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

It's now 20.45 and for the past 20 minutes I have NBC Golf 1080p on one device and Investigation Discovery 720p playing simultaneous on another device without a single hick up, so I doubt they throttle streaming.  

 

These are both streams from free addon in my Kodi build on the regular 30/10 VDSL

 

The problem you had might be with your IPTV source instead.

 

 

 

There was no problem with the IPTV source. 

Added inter package and buffering stopped.

 

Are you streaming from international servers as streaming within Thailand was never a problem for me either?

 

Take note I said both streams are from FREE addons in my Kodi build, and as far as I'm aware all Kodi addons stream from servers in the west, mostly UK or North America but probably also from East European cuntries

 

4 hours ago, Caiman said:

Maybe Singapore is OK with 3BB 30/10 VDSL.?

 

I didn't use a VPN to access those streams, because VPN will lower my speed, and I have also no inter package.

[KittenKong]

15 hours ago, wpcoe said:

In Pattaya & Jomtien, at least, they (3BB) won't install fibre in condo buildings.  Even low-rise buildings.

 

I think there is more to this than meets the eye.

 

With xDSL the ISP supplies the signal and phone line to some fixed point near the condo building and the building is responsible for getting it to the end user. Doing this with phone cable is within the scope of any maintenance technician. But fibre is a different matter.

And for fibre other powered data equipment would be needed somewhere in the common areas, and that would require specific negotiation and deals with management. So I think that the main cause is probably that 3BB dont want to get involved with internal building politics, discussions with management and the inevitable demands for kickbacks just for one installation.

 

I dare say that if a building committee approached them to be an (exclusive?) fibre provider to the entire building then 3BB may well consider the question, just as AIS and True do.

[Caiman]

  I didn't use a VPN to access those streams, because VPN will lower my speed, and I have also no inter package.

 

Thanks, yes a VPN does lower speeds on the 3BB vdsl service. I fortunately have got the inter package and VPN to UK almost halves the speed in my case when accessing the BBC iPlayer; without VPN I get well over 30, still good though!

 

Maybe time to revisit my Thai neighbor with my Android box this time, problem is they go to bed too early, a couple of Leo's should keep them Happy.

It might just be something with my IPTV service but worth a go.

 

My problem is I'm trying to find an ISP at my 2nd home that works with my IPTV service instead of the other way round.

 

 

 

 

[janclaes47]

9 minutes ago, Caiman said:

My problem is I'm trying to find an ISP at my 2nd home that works with my IPTV service instead of the other way round.

 

That is like trying to find a car that runs on water, instead of taking your car to the gas station.

 

3BB, or any ISP for that matter, is selective in which IPTV streams they throttle and which not, they either throttle or they don't, and from my test it seems clear that 3BB VDSL doesn't even throttle IPTV on the non-inter package.

 

 

[Caiman]

 
That is like trying to find a car that runs on water, instead of taking your car to the gas station.
 
3BB, or any ISP for that matter, is selective in which IPTV streams they throttle and which not, they either throttle or they don't, and from my test it seems clear that 3BB VDSL doesn't even throttle IPTV on the non-inter package.
 
 

I may well be missing a trick here:

I had 3BB 50/10 VDSL without inter initially and buffered every evening, logic would dictate the same problem for 30/10 but logic doesn't always play out here.

It's not inconceivable that they only throttled the 50/10 service because that's what it was as performance dropped off a cliff and left the 30/10 alone or am I clutching at straws. One way to find, I'll buy some Leo.

[janclaes47]

26 minutes ago, Caiman said:

I may well be missing a trick here:

I had 3BB 50/10 VDSL without inter initially and buffered every evening, logic would dictate the same problem for 30/10 but logic doesn't always play out here.

It's not inconceivable that they only throttled the 50/10 service because that's what it was as performance dropped off a cliff and left the 30/10 alone or am I clutching at straws. One way to find, I'll buy some Leo.

The thing you are clearly missing is that the problem is with your IPTV service that sucks.

 

I can watch Aussie channels in HD on the free addons without buffering at night.

 

The fact that I was running a live 1080p and a 720p stream simultaneously on the same network should tell you something

[Caiman]

The thing you are clearly missing is that the problem is with your IPTV service that sucks.
 
I can watch Aussie channels in HD on the free addons without buffering at night.
 
The fact that I was running a live 1080p and a 720p stream simultaneously on the same network should tell you something

Nothing wrong with the IPTV service in fact it is regarded as one of the best in fact flawless! But thanks for pointing out what I am clearly missing.