Yingluck’s assets frozen

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

So your saying that her assets are frozen under article 44 ? Does that really matter as its normal to freeze assets in cases like this all over the world. Does not really matter what law you use for it. I am quite sure that her assets would be frozen in other countries to given the claim that is asked of her. Also her assets don't even cover the claim.

 

And thanks, I really did not know that article 44 was used for the freeze. 

Here you are:

 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, idman said:

Who in their right mind would ever think that Yingluck and her misadventures would be so much on the minds of Farangs living here?. Just what does she have to do with the daily way we live our lives here in Thailand?? Our just perhaps it's commenting for the sake of commening?

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That's exactly what a forum us for, for the sake of commenting!

[smutcakes]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

The freeze does not even amount to the damages, and your right it should have been done long before. Its a point less exercise. 

Obviously because she does not have assets of 35 bn.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Here you are:

 

Thanks missed that one. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

Obviously because she does not have assets of 35 bn.

Not legally in her name obviously. Not sure how much she has stashed away but I am sure that she has more money as what is frozen. I do doubt they will fine her for the full amount or even send her to jail.

 

I read they are preparing more charges against her some are fair, others are crazy. (read some article in the BKK post) they want to charge her for not having a water management plan in 2011... ( I dislike how she handled the flooding) but when she came in office nobody had water management plans. 

 

They are charging her also with taking loans out for a water management plan without any clear plans being there (that one then seems fair.. why take out loans when there are no clear plans).

 

I do wonder what has been done after 2011 for water management, especially now with all those floods in the north. I am not only talking about YL but also about the junta.. what has been done after 2011.. would be nice to see some data on that. 

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not legally in her name obviously. Not sure how much she has stashed away but I am sure that she has more money as what is frozen. I do doubt they will fine her for the full amount or even send her to jail.

 

I read they are preparing more charges against her some are fair, others are crazy. (read some article in the BKK post) they want to charge her for not having a water management plan in 2011... ( I dislike how she handled the flooding) but when she came in office nobody had water management plans. 

 

They are charging her also with taking loans out for a water management plan without any clear plans being there (that one then seems fair.. why take out loans when there are no clear plans).

 

I do wonder what has been done after 2011 for water management, especially now with all those floods in the north. I am not only talking about YL but also about the junta.. what has been done after 2011.. would be nice to see some data on that. 

I am sure she has lots of money in trusts, she would be stupid not to do that, and any wealthy person politician or not is likely to have many complex structures where she is beneficiary of trusts etc She does not have over a bn USD.

 

I see all the other charges, as you say there is probably some truth in them, but they are no different from what the current Govt does and all Govts previously. For me at least that's what sticks in the throat, the pure vindictiveness and hypocrisy. It is quite clear the NACC is fast lining her cases and completely ignoring all others. Is that fair or is that the sign of a complete corrupt and loaded system? In most countries the level of partisanship they are showing would immediately void any and all of their investigations as they are quite clearly not impartial, which for most is the absolute number one trait of an investigatory body. Why should anyone have trust in the NACC, the judiciary etc.

 

Do you not find it strange that so many cases against the PTP and their alias seem to be moving at lightening speeds and many others, often similar cases are just left going now where. Is that not a sign of a completely partisan system?

[MaxLee]

True, but that is not the case here.. we got someone causing huge losses to the country while chairing a rice program.. but she never attended any meetings, nor did she react to warnings from international and national organisations. She also did not take the loss up in the central budget (huge accounting failure) as it was touted as cost neutral. Then she stepped down without taking steps to ensure the farmers would get paid, and the caretaker government was not allowed to do so, resulting in suicides of farmers.  I fail to see how this is anything else then gross negligence.. and guess what she is charged for. I also see that more and more cases are filed against YL, the chickens come home to roost. Maybe the next PM will listen less to big brother and follow the laws better. 

What are they gonna do with the frozen money???? Distribute it to the crocks who were sent to inactive posts,...... aight??????


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[robblok]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I am sure she has lots of money in trusts, she would be stupid not to do that, and any wealthy person politician or not is likely to have many complex structures where she is beneficiary of trusts etc She does not have over a bn USD.

 

I see all the other charges, as you say there is probably some truth in them, but they are no different from what the current Govt does and all Govts previously. For me at least that's what sticks in the throat, the pure vindictiveness and hypocrisy. It is quite clear the NACC is fast lining her cases and completely ignoring all others. Is that fair or is that the sign of a complete corrupt and loaded system? In most countries the level of partisanship they are showing would immediately void any and all of their investigations as they are quite clearly not impartial, which for most is the absolute number one trait of an investigatory body. Why should anyone have trust in the NACC, the judiciary etc.

 

Do you not find it strange that so many cases against the PTP and their alias seem to be moving at lightening speeds and many others, often similar cases are just left going now where. Is that not a sign of a completely partisan system?

The reason that things move faster now is that YL and her goverment can't slow them down. When she was in power she had slashed the NACC budget. Its quite normal to see cases move faster once their protection is lifted. But I would not worry too much about it if I were you the NACC has shown they are not that competent. 

 

If it really was fast tracking of PTP cases (i see it as that things move faster as they can't stall them now they are not in power) then Jatuporn and the other leaders would already be in jail for terrorism (that was 2010.. captured on tape the inciting of burning of BKK). All they got Jatuporn on now is a 2009 defamation case. I don't really see this as fast tracking.. the Thai system is so slow its unbelievable. 

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

The reason that things move faster now is that YL and her goverment can't slow them down. When she was in power she had slashed the NACC budget. Its quite normal to see cases move faster once their protection is lifted. But I would not worry too much about it if I were you the NACC has shown they are not that competent. 

 

If it really was fast tracking of PTP cases (i see it as that things move faster as they can't stall them now they are not in power) then Jatuporn and the other leaders would already be in jail for terrorism (that was 2010.. captured on tape the inciting of burning of BKK). All they got Jatuporn on now is a 2009 defamation case. I don't really see this as fast tracking.. the Thai system is so slow its unbelievable. 

So if they are not stalling now, why has the NACC completely failed to bring a resolution to the countless cases outstanding on other parties and persons? Presumably when the PTP were in power they were not stalling cases of the other side, yet these have never gone anywhere. Suthep police station case? Ever any progress?

[chickenslegs]

26 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Obviously because she does not have assets of 35 bn.

 

21 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not legally in her name obviously. Not sure how much she has stashed away but I am sure that she has more money as what is frozen. I do doubt they will fine her for the full amount or even send her to jail.

 

Robblok,

I think you are doing what the PM has advised everyone NOT to do - mixing up two seperate cases.

 

Quote

BANGKOK — Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha said Thursday his government was right to confiscate the bank accounts of former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra as it was a separate matter than her malfeasance trial, which has yet to render a verdict.

 

YL has already been ordered to pay "compensation" of 35bn Baht - This was done by the Finance Ministry under Article 44 - no need for any court proceedings - seems they have already started to collect money from her accounts. The PM has given them 10 years to collect the money.

 

The malfeasance case is ongoing and will not affect the 35bn fine ("compensation") already imposed.

 

Even if she is not guilty of malfeasance, it has already been decided that she must pay compensation.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/09/26/pheu-thai-says-35-7b-baht-fine-violates-denies-yingluck-due-process/

and

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/07/27/prayuth-says-govt-right-take-yingluck-assets-verdict/

 

Quote

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said Thursday that authorities only froze her accounts – he numbered them at 16 – but have yet transfer her money to the state.

He said money in the amount of “hundreds of thousands” of baht was withdrawn from five of her frozen accounts but not yet given to the treasury. He said the other 11 accounts remain untouched.

 

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

So if they are not stalling now, why has the NACC completely failed to bring a resolution to the countless cases outstanding on other parties and persons? Presumably when the PTP were in power they were not stalling cases of the other side, yet these have never gone anywhere. Suthep police station case? Ever any progress?

What cases are you talking about.. do they pre date these cases ? I mean would be nice to know when they are dated and what ones your talking about. But I am sure some bias is taken but have you seen ANY completed cases against the PTP by the NACC recently ? (I honestly don't know if the NACC has investigated the rice program or someone else did that). The NACC can say they started something.. I am far more interested when they finish something and bring it to trial.. they are quite good at starting stuff... but completing... not so much.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

What cases are you talking about.. do they pre date these cases ? I mean would be nice to know when they are dated and what ones your talking about. But I am sure some bias is taken but have you seen ANY completed cases against the PTP by the NACC recently ? (I honestly don't know if the NACC has investigated the rice program or someone else did that). The NACC can say they started something.. I am far more interested when they finish something and bring it to trial.. they are quite good at starting stuff... but completing... not so much.

Come on Rob there are loads. Suthep police stations, huge amounts of money found in a burglary of the transport minister under the Dem government.. there are countless.

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

Come on Rob there are loads. Suthep police stations, huge amounts of money found in a burglary of the transport minister under the Dem government.. there are countless.

Ok, i believe they are still moving on on the police stations.. did not hear about the money of the transport minister.. but that was not a democrat but one of Newins men, no reason to protect him.

 

But even so what cases of YL Have been finished.. I mean the NACC is busy with the police stations just as its busy with so many other cases of YL.. and almost none ever seem to be completed. What cases involving the PTP have been finished recently ? Just starting an investigation is not fast-tracking something. 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

 

Robblok,

I think you are doing what the PM has advised everyone NOT to do - mixing up two seperate cases.

 

 

YL has already been ordered to pay "compensation" of 35bn Baht - This was done by the Finance Ministry under Article 44 - no need for any court proceedings - seems they have already started to collect money from her accounts. The PM has given them 10 years to collect the money.

 

The malfeasance case is ongoing and will not affect the 35bn fine ("compensation") already imposed.

 

Even if she is not guilty of malfeasance, it has already been decided that she must pay compensation.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/09/26/pheu-thai-says-35-7b-baht-fine-violates-denies-yingluck-due-process/

and

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/07/27/prayuth-says-govt-right-take-yingluck-assets-verdict/

 

 

I think your mixing things up too.. freezing is not taking money...

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I think your mixing things up too.. freezing is not taking money...

why don't you check the other threads

keep up

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ok, i believe they are still moving on on the police stations.. did not hear about the money of the transport minister.. but that was not a democrat but one of Newins men, no reason to protect him.

 

But even so what cases of YL Have been finished.. I mean the NACC is busy with the police stations just as its busy with so many other cases of YL.. and almost none ever seem to be completed. What cases involving the PTP have been finished recently ? Just starting an investigation is not fast-tracking something. 

 Rob it was a Newin man, but the Dems got into bed with them so they need to accept responsibility, in the same way you blame the floods on Yingluck when reports are that that department was run by the Suphan Buri massif under Banharn.

 

Anyway, we can end this by saying we both hope the investigations start moving on everyone, but we know this will never happen.

 

Also funny the army being close to Bhumjunthai (Newin) who are widely regarded as being one of the most influencable of all parties (trying to put it nicely). Seem their 'business ways' do not bother the army.

Edited July 28, 2017 by smutcakes

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

 Rob it was a Newin man, but the Dems got into bed with them so they need to accept responsibility, in the same way you blame the floods on Yingluck when reports are that that department was run by the Suphan Buri massif under Banharn.

 

Anyway, we can end this by saying we both hope the investigations start moving on everyone, but we know this will never happen.

Yes the democrats got in bed with him.. my point was more that he was Newins man and there is no reason for the democrats to protect him. I don't see why the NACC would stall this. I could follow your reasoning if it was a democrat then you could argue it was because he was a democrat. But there is not much love lost between the democrats and Newins party.

 

I hope investigations start moving as you know I hate corruption on all sides. But i still don't get your fast tracking remark. They just started these investigations.. the NACC has not yet delivered much (its really not functioning well). Even against the PTP who they would love to put away (because yes I do believe there is a bias) they are not making much progress.

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

why don't you check the other threads

keep up

Latest threads are all talking about freezing.. Just like this tread.. just read the headline.. FROZEN not taken.

[smutcakes]

Just now, robblok said:

Yes the democrats got in bed with him.. my point was more that he was Newins man and there is no reason for the democrats to protect him. I don't see why the NACC would stall this. I could follow your reasoning if it was a democrat then you could argue it was because he was a democrat. But there is not much love lost between the democrats and Newins party.

 

I hope investigations start moving as you know I hate corruption on all sides. But i still don't get your fast tracking remark. They just started these investigations.. the NACC has not yet delivered much (its really not functioning well). Even against the PTP who they would love to put away (because yes I do believe there is a bias) they are not making much progress.

 

So you dont find it odd at least for an organization like the NACC to suddenly announce a multiple charges of Yingluck a week before her big case. Ok then...They would protect them as they hold enormous influence as the 3rd largest party and have friends in very high places in the army.

[AGareth2]

Just now, robblok said:

Latest threads are all talking about freezing.. Just like this tread.. just read the headline.. FROZEN not taken.

OMG even the PM has said taking the money from frozen accounts  was legal

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

So you dont find it odd at least for an organization like the NACC to suddenly announce a multiple charges of Yingluck a week before her big case. Ok then...They would protect them as they hold enormous influence as the 3rd largest party and have friends in very high places in the army.

I would find it odd if they had those charges worked out. They are just investigating.. as far as I know. If you say these charges are fully worked out and filed then yes its for sure a bias. The NACC takes forever to work on things in general. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

OMG even the PM has said taking the money from frozen accounts  was legal

That is an old thread.. and they are constantly confusing taking with freezing, all the current threads are about freezing. YL said in the first threads her money was taken.. but later she states it FROZEN. They are messing the terms up. 

 

Frozen = money is still there but can't be touched

taken = account are empty

 

All the latest threads seem to have the correct terminology and are talking about freezing funds. 

[candide]

47 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not legally in her name obviously. Not sure how much she has stashed away but I am sure that she has more money as what is frozen. I do doubt they will fine her for the full amount or even send her to jail.

 

I read they are preparing more charges against her some are fair, others are crazy. (read some article in the BKK post) they want to charge her for not having a water management plan in 2011... ( I dislike how she handled the flooding) but when she came in office nobody had water management plans. 

 

They are charging her also with taking loans out for a water management plan without any clear plans being there (that one then seems fair.. why take out loans when there are no clear plans).

 

I do wonder what has been done after 2011 for water management, especially now with all those floods in the north. I am not only talking about YL but also about the junta.. what has been done after 2011.. would be nice to see some data on that. 

They also want to charge her for overreacting to the PDRC.....

[binjalin]

Disgraceful way to treat the ex-PM but it will bounce back eventually.

[chickenslegs]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think your mixing things up too.. freezing is not taking money...

Did you read the quote from Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam?

 

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said Thursday that authorities only froze her accounts – he numbered them at 16 – but have yet transfer her money to the state.

He said money in the amount of “hundreds of thousands” of baht was withdrawn from five of her frozen accounts but not yet given to the treasury. He said the other 11 accounts remain untouched.

[robblok]

Just now, candide said:

They also want to charge her for overreacting to the PDRC.....

I did not see that happening, what I did see was how the CAPO led by Charlem made no effort to go after the red bombers and shooters but always said.. we cant protect you go home. That is a charge I would support.. not the over reacting.

[robblok]

Just now, chickenslegs said:

Did you read the quote from Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam?

 

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said Thursday that authorities only froze her accounts – he numbered them at 16 – but have yet transfer her money to the state.

He said money in the amount of “hundreds of thousands” of baht was withdrawn from five of her frozen accounts but not yet given to the treasury. He said the other 11 accounts remain untouched.

No i did not read it.. so I was partially wrong.. some money is frozen some is taken. stupid to take the money.. should have just kept it frozen as it should be. I can understand she is angry about that. Its wrong to take it.

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

No i did not read it.. so I was partially wrong.. some money is frozen some is taken. stupid to take the money.. should have just kept it frozen as it should be. I can understand she is angry about that. Its wrong to take it.

been trying to tell you

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

been trying to tell you

I read the headlines and the first part, not the part about them taking the money. IMHO a stupid thing to do a freeze should suffice (unless there is some reason that is not sufficient that I don't know about). I was reading the first parts all about freezing then later somewhere below they said they emptied some accounts but NOT given it to the treasury.. why would they do that ? Are they afraid the banks will unfreeze the money ?

 

What is the logic of taking it out and not giving it to treasury instead of freezing.. I can't think of it.  

 

My apologies.. i did miss that. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by robblok

[chickenslegs]

Just now, robblok said:

No i did not read it.. so I was partially wrong.. some money is frozen some is taken. stupid to take the money.. should have just kept it frozen as it should be. I can understand she is angry about that. Its wrong to take it.

No, it is not wrong under current laws. The PM has ordered it using Article 44. He has given 10 years for the Treasury to collect the 35bn.  - This is what I meant when I remarked that you are mixing up the two cases.

 

Some people think it's ok that one person can decide what is lawful or not.