Transgender Day Camp

[Scott]

This is rather interesting:

 

Transgender day camp among first to include 4-year-olds

EL CERRITO, Calif. — In some ways, Rainbow Day Camp is very ordinary. Kids arrive with a packed lunch, make friendship bracelets, play basketball, sing songs and get silly. But it is also extraordinarily unique, from the moment campers arrive each morning. 

 

At check-in each day, campers make a nametag with their pronoun of choice. Some opt for "she" or "he." Or a combination of "she/he." Or "they," or no pronoun at all. Some change their name or pronouns daily, to see what feels right.   

 

The camp in the San Francisco Bay Area city of El Cerrito caters to transgender and "gender fluid" children, ages 4 to 12, making it one of the only camps of its kind in the world open to preschoolers, experts say.

 

http://www.wral.com/transgender-day-camp-among-first-to-include-4-year-olds/16863684/

 

[DoctorG]

Haha. Only in California.

[1duckyboy]

Brainwashing.

[sykray]

"among first" DoctorG, one of many throughout the world.  Who do you think is being brainwashed, 1duckyboy - the children or us?

 

As a retired psychotherapist, with almost 40 years experience of dealing with sexual and gender problems, including a large number of transgendered teens and adults,, I draw attention to the full article linked above.  The kids are not being coerced into anything.  they are being allowed to choose what name they want people to use and to say whether they want people to refer to them as "he" or "she".  Beyond that the camp is simply following activities which are not gender-role stereotyped.  Any of them can play with dolls, guns, trucks, footballs, try on make-up, and most other activities and games that kids play IF and as they wish.  Children choose and are not pushed or pressed to play in any particular direction.

 

Many children in their early years feel that they are not the gender of their biological sex; some children are born with ambiguous sex (estimates of intersex range from 2 in 10,000 to 2%, depending on how you define the term to include or exclude chromosomal conditions like XXY and XO, or genital malformations).  Some children, of course, may express reluctance to accept their biological sex at an early age and later change their minds.  Such non-gendered or gender-fluid camps for children do not encourage or discourage how the children feel about their gender or how they will feel as adults.

[Ace of Pop]

"among first" DoctorG, one of many throughout the world.  Who do you think is being brainwashed, 1duckyboy - the children or us?
 
As a retired psychotherapist, with almost 40 years experience of dealing with sexual and gender problems, including a large number of transgendered teens and adults,, I draw attention to the full article linked above.  The kids are not being coerced into anything.  they are being allowed to choose what name they want people to use and to say whether they want people to refer to them as "he" or "she".  Beyond that the camp is simply following activities which are not gender-role stereotyped.  Any of them can play with dolls, guns, trucks, footballs, try on make-up, and most other activities and games that kids play IF and as they wish.  Children choose and are not pushed or pressed to play in any particular direction.
 
Many children in their early years feel that they are not the gender of their biological sex; some children are born with ambiguous sex (estimates of intersex range from 2 in 10,000 to 2%, depending on how you define the term to include or exclude chromosomal conditions like XXY and XO, or genital malformations).  Some children, of course, may express reluctance to accept their biological sex at an early age and later change their minds.  Such non-gendered or gender-fluid camps for children do not encourage or discourage how the children feel about their gender or how they will feel as adults.

Coerced by some, but not all ,youve missed that fact over the years..!.?


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[1duckyboy]

8 hours ago, sykray said:

"among first" DoctorG, one of many throughout the world.  Who do you think is being brainwashed, 1duckyboy - the children or us?

 

As a retired psychotherapist, with almost 40 years experience of dealing with sexual and gender problems, including a large number of transgendered teens and adults,, I draw attention to the full article linked above.  The kids are not being coerced into anything.  they are being allowed to choose what name they want people to use and to say whether they want people to refer to them as "he" or "she".  Beyond that the camp is simply following activities which are not gender-role stereotyped.  Any of them can play with dolls, guns, trucks, footballs, try on make-up, and most other activities and games that kids play IF and as they wish.  Children choose and are not pushed or pressed to play in any particular direction.

 

Many children in their early years feel that they are not the gender of their biological sex; some children are born with ambiguous sex (estimates of intersex range from 2 in 10,000 to 2%, depending on how you define the term to include or exclude chromosomal conditions like XXY and XO, or genital malformations).  Some children, of course, may express reluctance to accept their biological sex at an early age and later change their minds.  Such non-gendered or gender-fluid camps for children do not encourage or discourage how the children feel about their gender or how they will feel as adults.

Having worked in the acute care psychiatric field in Berkeley, California, <5 miles from El Cerrito, for almost 20 years, I feel confident in saying some same sex parents, usually female in this particular region, create a negative role model of the other gender for the child. Then when a child who is "coerced" by these negative stereotypes is put in a situation where it can choose, at very young age, it's gender role, is far from natural development. 

[tukkytuktuk]

Children are coming out as transgender at young ages more and more as society changes its views on gender orientation. Why the stigma attached? Let your child decide and long gone be the days of being told off by your dad that your a sissy or being disowned by your mum. To have the chance to come out at a early age, throws out all the hatred and bigotry. People see early on what gender you are and how happy you are with it.

 

This camp could be a great way for these children to be themselves and make friends, because they are bullied in the real world, misunderstood and scared by old fashioned opinions that belong back in the dark ages.

Edited August 8, 2017 by tukkytuktuk

[Jingthing]

I don't have the full on PC attitude about this.

To me an ideal society would be very tolerant of children exploring any gender fluidity feelings they have in freedom. Not to push them either way. Let them work it out. 

A camp like this I fear goes too far to encourage young children to identify as transgender.

In some cases the identification with the other gender is so strong, obvious, and persistent that modern parents now have a very hard choice. Support the child early with medical hormone therapy early or not. Not doing it early means it will be less effective later. Doing it early when the specific child would have "grown out" of it is pretty horrible.

I know it's not the same thing as gay, but I think most people know that experimenting with same sex behavior is very common among teens. But most grow up not to be gay. I think there is something similar going on here. 

To add, my understanding is that many boys that think they may be transgender grow up to be cisgender gay men. That's fine but what happens to them if they had their male puberty stunted by hormones? 

But if I was a parent with a kid that was yelling and screaming every time I called him his birth gender, and did that for many years with consistency, I'd probably consider the hormone therapy route as well. 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Jingthing

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I see we have a trick-cyclist in the thread, but I think he neglects that at four kids should not be sexually aware. If these children are genuine hermaphrodites I can see they are facing a problem. However this is no time to be messing with their heads if they have normal genitals.

It's PC gone mad.

 

[Jingthing]

I see we have a trick-cyclist in the thread, but I think he neglects that at four kids should not be sexually aware. If these children are genuine hermaphrodites I can see they are facing a problem. However this is no time to be messing with their heads if they have normal genitals.

It's PC gone mad.

 

It might be PC gone mad but we're taking about gender identity not adult sexuality. Of course gender identity starts very early.

 

What's a trick cyclist? This isn't the sports forum my dude.

 

[Jonmarleesco]

Only in LoS becomes only in the US - though I'm not even sure about that. Kids being offered gender options at 4-years-old is PC gone bonkers.

[Jonmarleesco]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It might be PC gone mad but we're taking about gender identity not adult sexuality. Of course gender identity starts very early.

Yes, usually at birth.

[Jingthing]

Yes, usually at birth.

Of course. But I was talking about the child's awareness of it. I think that's quite a bit later than birth. Babies are babies.

[Scott]

I see nothing wrong with the camp.  Most camps are staffed by people who have been vetted by law enforcement and will have training to assist the type of children attending.   California is particularly strict in making certain that those with access to children are vetted.

 

The fact that they have lowered the age level to 4 would most likely signify a need.   I doubt there are many people enrolling their child unless there are existing issues.  

 

From the sounds of it, the camp provides an opportunity for the child to explore their identity; not force them into an identity.  

[Jingthing]

I'm still not fully sure if such camps don't go too far.

Making the gay analogy again, suppose parents notice their little boy, age 4, is on the effeminate side, doesn't like rough housing, and is crazy about show tunes. No gender identity issues though. 

In my view, good parents would just support the child in whatever his path is, not pushing a particular path, and making it clear with actions that their love is unconditional regardless.

Now send that kid that they think probably will grow up gay, when they really don't know, so send young gay kids camp, isn't that too much? 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Jingthing

[balo]

Sorry a 4 year old is not old enough to decide, you can turn anyone into thinking they are a boy or a girl at that age by just influencing them to make the "right" decision.

 

And then what in later life when its to late to regret ?  

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Sorry a 4 year old is not old enough to decide, you can turn anyone into thinking they are a boy or a girl at that age by just influencing them to make the "right" decision.
 
And then what in later life when its to late to regret ?  
 
 
 
 

Old enough to play around with possibilities but commitment to a camp would be kind of like the parents reinforcing a transgender identity. I think best to be very neutral except in extreme cases where there is little doubt. But there is always doubt.

But the world can be harsh. Different children are bullied. So in that sense I get the desire for a camp like that.

[tominbkk]

I think it's an interesting evolution in regards to sexuality and gender. It's all so fluid and why not give people a chance to experiment?


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[Scott]

As long as no one is being forced into an identity, and I suspect they wouldn't be, then it's a good idea.  

 

I wonder if the name of it is  "A Camp Camp"?

[i claudius]

Sorry this is just wrong and smacks of brainwashing young children and should be banned .I am hetro but as most who have ever read a post from me will know i could not care less if someone is gay as long as i dont have to watch or join in (i am willing to make exceptions to this rule for lesbians)

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[vogie]

24 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Sorry this is just wrong and smacks of brainwashing young children and should be banned .I am hetro but as most who have ever read a post from me will know i could not care less if someone is gay as long as i dont have to watch or join in (i am willing to make exceptions to this rule for lesbians)

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Yes I agree on your take on lesbians, if anything, they should be encouraged. ?

[nausea]

Well, I'll don't suppose we'll ever know the truth, till people can be openly trangender without some societal kickback; like homoesexuality was illegal in the UK till 1967. Maybe some people are playing a game, maybe some are real. I know one thing, if I wanted to be an <deleted> to society I'd pretend to be transgender. Unfortunately, in Thailand every man/woman and his dog can pretend to be transgender/gay, which really tskes the fun out of it.

Edited February 20, 2018 by nausea

[Jingthing]

Well, I'll don't suppose we'll ever know the truth, till people can be openly trangender without some societal kickback; like homoesexuality was illegal in the UK till 1967. Maybe some people are playing a game, maybe some are real. I know one thing, if I wanted to be an to society I'd pretend to be transgender. Unfortunately, in Thailand every man/woman and his dog can pretend to be transgender/gay, which really tskes the fun out of it.

Pretend?

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[starky]

On 20/02/2018 at 8:01 PM, Jingthing said:

Pretend?

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I think he may be alluding to the belief of some that not all katoi in Thailand actually identify as female but do it purely as a financial or lifestyle choice.

[tifino]

7 minutes ago, starky said:

I think he may be alluding to the belief of some that not all katoi in Thailand actually identify as female but do it purely as a financial or lifestyle choice.

 

the thing is that this whole thread is about 'California' not Thailand, and about 4 year old kiddies

[starky]

59 minutes ago, tifino said:

 

the thing is that this whole thread is about 'California' not Thailand, and about 4 year old kiddies

Well done. Now look at the post I was responding to..I didn't take it of topic nor do I think babies should be guided into any specific gender roles but thanks for your input, as far I know I am allowed to express my opinions regarding other posters comments.

[tifino]

10 minutes ago, starky said:

Well done. Now look at the post I was responding to..I didn't take it of topic nor do I think babies should be guided into any specific gender roles but thanks for your input, as far I know I am allowed to express my opinions regarding other posters comments.

sorry the it came outthe way it was seen... I was intending my input as an addition to yours   (appending I think is the word) 

[Sealbash]

 
the thing is that this whole thread is about 'California' not Thailand, and about 4 year old kiddies

And are Californians more human than Thais?


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[tifino]

1 minute ago, Sealbash said:

And are Californians more human than Thais?


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 I'm not qualified to answer 'that' technicality;

 

it was only that the OP Thread subject was about a California based activity, in a 'gay in thailand' category

[jak2002003]

On ‎09‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 1:39 PM, Jingthing said:

 

Making the gay analogy again, suppose parents notice their little boy, age 4, is on the effeminate side, doesn't like rough housing, and is crazy about show tunes. 

 

Wow...you trying to be funny or are really so ignorant to paint this stereotype about gay people............?!