Thousands take to streets in Boston protest against hate speech

[Jingthing]

White nationalist and Black nationalist both sound racist to me, so does White supremacists.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

If you're suggesting BLM is black nationalist you're wrong. They are fighting against institutionalized racism not for it.

[mogandave]

Speech that promotes  illegal activity is against the law and is dealt with  by the appropriate authorities.
 

I don't think that's true, or if it is, it is not enforced.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Freedom to express hate speech is a topic that is constantly pushed by the extremists in society. Hate speech creates violence. Looks to me some sectors of society have already compromised with evil by not updating laws to reflect the reality of conflict in society today - comment not aimed at you.

Sure,    but  Therein lies the rub.

 Hate speech is a subjective term . subject to political winds and can blow either way.

In no way do I agree with  the "Alt right" but I support their right to express their views  as long as it is done legally ,because in doing so I support my right to do the same.

    Their views and my views should stand on their merit and NOT in the ability of one group or an other to violently squelch it.

We have seen this happen many times in history  to groups in both sides of the political spectrum  . are we about to go there again? Are we no better than them?

 

[Damrongsak]

12 hours ago, mogandave said:

As the US progresses from a greed-driven capitalist society to a more socialist state, dissenting views will and should be shut down.

...and should be shut down...

 

???!!!

[simple1]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

Sure,    but  Therein lies the rub.

 Hate speech is a subjective term . subject to political winds and can blow either way.

In no way do I agree with  the "Alt right" but I support their right to express their views  as long as it is done legally ,because in doing so I support my right to do the same.

    Their views and my views should stand on their merit and NOT in the ability of one group or an other to violently squelch it.

We have seen this happen many times in history  to groups in both sides of the political spectrum  . are we about to go there again? Are we no better than them?

 

I do comprehend the points you're making. However, IMO these matters do come across as the crux of double morality, IMO enforcing laws is required, perhaps similar to some centrist European countries. My concern is in the not so distant past 'free speech' enabled extremist ideology which in a relatively short period led to massive destruction and death of millions worldwide whether it be to the left / right of politics; some countries are still experiencing the negative outcomes.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by simple1

[mogandave]

...and should be shut down...
 
???!!!

Is it too complex for you?

[metisdead]

A post containing an image which contained profanity has been removed as per this forum rule:

 

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[Damrongsak]

42 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Is it too complex for you?

 

Free speech and expression should be shut down according to the political climate of the day? 

 

I have always encouraged dissenting views.  Or at least listened to them before dismissing them as crap.  More than many people do today, 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Damrongsak

[FreddieRoyle]

17 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

Free speech and expression should be shut down according to the political climate of the day? 

 

I have always encouraged dissenting views.  Or at least listened to them before dismissing them as crap.  More than many people do today, 

If you don't listen to dissenting views you have no way of constructing an informed opinion. I believe we are reading so many completely balmy posts due to the poster living on a diet of CNN and Washington post and their ilk which would account for some of these bizarre posts.

 

 For myself, I value posts which go against my thoughts so long as they are well reasoned. Over the years my opinions of world politics have changed greatly thanks to having digested thoughts from all sides.

 

 It is sad to read posters above agreeing that free speech is bad, and not seeing that somebody must decide what is acceptable/not acceptable so there is an inherent problem there.

[Damrongsak]

33 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

... Over the years my opinions of world politics have changed greatly thanks to having digested thoughts from all sides....

Same here.  Lately I've been intrigued by the behavior of Vlad the Impaler and the hoards from Mongolia, back in the day.  They did get their points across without much discussion.  No rhetoric, just respect.

 

As for digesting thoughts from all sides, it often gives me gas.  But then I freely spread my opinion.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Damrongsak

[mogandave]

Free speech and expression should be shut down according to the political climate of the day? 

That's not what I said. I made no mention of "the political climate of the day".

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

Same here.  Lately I've been intrigued by the behavior of Vlad the Impaler and the hoards from Mongolia, back in the day.  They did get their points across without much discussion.  No rhetoric, just respect.

 

Like a lot of the guys who post here (especially when the topics of tattoos and Harley's come up), you're confusing respect and compliance.  I may comply with the demands of thugs, but that doesn't indicate one iota of respect.

 

[Damrongsak]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

That's not what I said. I made no mention of "the political climate of the day".

Word play. 

 

You said  "As the US progresses from a greed-driven capitalist society to a more socialist state, dissenting views will and should be shut down."

 

Tell me what I shouldn't say, I need to know.  What views I shouldn't have, that sort of thing.  Where were you when I was protesting the war in Vietnam?  Were any of your family members "border babies" caught in the migrations to Thailand back in the 50's and 60's?

 

I attended the University of Virginia back in the early 70's.  I happened to use the word "should" in a conversation about how people "should" be exposed to various ideas and different thoughts.  He about took my head off.  He was a liberal, not an old-school professor.

 

 

 

[iReason]

Who exactly are these alt-right protesters?

 

A short list of their speakers:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/17/speakers-list-for-boston-free-speech-rally-include-right-wing-extremist/6xWnzHZwrjq8svoRbPN1NP/story.html

 

Kyle Chapman:

"In videos posted to his Twitter account late Friday night, Chapman, who goes by “Based Stickman” on social media, 

offered “Boston Rally Preparation” advice: He urged supporters coming to the rally to be “armed with a minimum of mace” 

 

"Chapman was charged Wednesday by the Alameda County district county attorney in California with a felony count of possessing a lead pipe, 

the Associated Press reported." 

"The charge stems from Chapman’s arrest in March after a fight in Berkley, Calif. between Trump supporters and counter protesters."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/19/boston-free-speech-organizers-plan-start-with-moment-silence-for-charlottesville-victim/KtId6sMPhUoYr8BxlH6LjJ/story.html

Kyle Chapman:

THURSDAY, AUGUST 17, 2017

Kyle "Based Stickman" Chapman Charged with Possession of Leaded Stick by Alameda District Attorney

"The Alameda County District Attorney filed a felony charge against Kyle Chapman yesterday for possession of a leaded stick." 

"The charges stem from a melee between Trump supporters and anti-fascists in Berkeley on March 4."

"Chapman was seen carrying a long baton into several fights and was filmed cracking the weapon over the heads of a masked antifa and other counter-demonstrators."

https://www.eastbayexpress.com/SevenDays/archives/2017/08/17/kyle-based-stickman-chapman-charged-with-possession-of-leaded-stick-by-alameda-district-attorney

 

"Kyle Chapman (born 27 April 1971) is a former national director of the New Zealand National Front (NZNF), a white nationalist political party."

"He has stood unsuccessfully three times for the Christchurch mayoralty, first for the National Front and then for the National Democrats Party."

"As a teenager he was a member of several skinhead gangs, he was the founding member of the New Zealand Hammerskins."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Chapman

 

Andrew Turcotte: (Who pulled out after being outed)

"Deputy Fire Chief Andy Turcotte resigned Friday, after being placed on paid administrative leave 

Thursday, March 24, pending an internal investigation, Town Manager Barry Tibbetts said Friday."

"The first incident, according to Limmer’s letter to Town Manager Barry Tibbetts, 

involved Turcotte allegedly sending a “racially charged e-mail” to town employees through the town e-mail system in March 2010."

http://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20110325/NEWS/110329852

 

Joe Biggs

InfoWars Reporter

PIZZAGATE IS GLOBAL

Latest pedophile scandal is a worldwide network

Joe Biggs | Infowars.com - DECEMBER 1, 2016

https://www.infowars.com/pizzagate-is-global/

 

Tammy Lee American Freedom Keepers

The "American Freedom Keepers" in May 2017:

 

 

Photo 1: Tammy Lee lower left at White supremacists gathering. (From her website)

Photo 2 : Joe Biggs

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by iReason

[mogandave]

Word play. 
 
You said  "As the US progresses from a greed-driven capitalist society to a more socialist state, dissenting views will and should be shut down"
 
 
 

It's not word play. Views that attempt to make the case that capitalism is not evil need to be shut down, regardless of what may or may not be popular on any given day.

Clear now?

[impulse]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

Who exactly are these alt-right protesters?

 

I think there are several groups, unfortunately being lumped into the genre.

 

There's the hate groups that have been around since the end of the civil war, for the purpose of keeping the races separate and the white race on top.  And, of course, counter groups.

 

There are the militias who advocate the overthrow of the government.

 

And there are those ordinary citizens who see the government stepping all over their privacy rights, their property rights and their rights to free speech and free association and assembly- once in the name of fighting commies, now in the name of national security and fighting terror.  Not to mention giving the country away to special interests and corporations in return for lobby and election money- resulting in the concentration of wealth and erosion of the middle class.

 

There's a lot of overlap in what they advocate, and a lot of hijacking of legitimate gripes.  Not to mention media coverage that has its own (wealthy owners') agenda.  Throw in the internweb, 24 hour news cycle and wannabe's who follow trouble around the country, and it's a real mess.

 

[MaxYakov]

On 8/20/2017 at 7:53 AM, mogandave said:

 

Yes, but speech that comes from the right is by definition, Hate Speech.

I hear Reuters is hiring. You would fit right in I should think.

[mogandave]

I hear Reuters is hiring. You would fit right in I should think.

Yes, and you might have a shot with Faux if your gig with the KKK dries up...

[iReason]

Austin Gillespie aka: "Augusta Invictus",

a featured speaker at the alt-right rally in Boston and participant in the event at Charlottsville, Virginia :

 

Speakers at ‘free speech’ rally dropping out

"Three headliners scheduled to speak at a far-right rally in Boston on Saturday backed out Monday,

casting doubt on the event amid strong opposition by city officials worried about a repeat of the bloodshed in Charlottesville."

 

"Augustus Invictus, an Orlando activist who took part in the Charlottesville rally, said organizers of Boston’s rally texted him on Monday

and said it was necessary to cancel the event “from a PR standpoint,’’ after the violence in Virginia."

 

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/08/14/speakers-at-free-speech-rally-dropping-out

 

 

Meet Augustus Invictus, the Florida Libertarian Who Loves Paganism, Civil War, and Goat Sacrifice

"Last week, the chairman of Florida's Libertarian Party, Adrian Wyllie,resigned from his post, citing his outrage that the party's executive committee refused to tell Augustus Invictus, the only Libertarian candidate running for Marco Rubio's Florida US Senate seat, that he couldn't be a Libertarian anymore."

 

"There are a few reasons why Wyllie finds Invictus such a distasteful character."

 

'He continued, "He has described himself as an American Fascist... He has expressed support for a eugenics program... Many of his supporters are known members of Neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups."

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/ppxqan/augustus-invictus-the-florida-libertarian-who-loves-paganism-civil-war-and-goat-sacrifice-105

 

Austin Gillespie aka: "Augusta Invictus" hanging with his bro' White nationalist, Kyle Chapman (see post 44) aka: "Based Stickman":

 

 

Austin Gillespie aka: "Augusta Invictus" discusses his paganism, mistresses, goat sacrifice, LSD use, his dissertation embracing eugenics,

and "total violent insurrection."

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by iReason

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, and you might have a shot with Faux if your gig with the KKK dries up...

 

You made my point. Thanks! Just like the violent leftists (socialists, communists, fascists) at Charlottesville and now Boston (and, previously,  Berkeley). If you disagree with what I say, then I must be a KKK member. Right?

 

Anyone who is not a leftist (reference above list) is, by default, a far-right something or other, yes?

 

Don't you see how insane that position is? Or is it an agenda narrative we're looking at here? In any event, I'm a free speech supporter so go ahead and unload on me.

Edited August 21, 2017 by MaxYakov

[attrayant]

The only insane thing I see is you putting socialism, communism and fascism under the umbrella of left-wing politics.

[MaxYakov]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

The only insane thing I see is you putting socialism, communism and fascism under the umbrella of left-wing politics.

Ok ... Care to adjust their classification for us ignorant and potentially insane people?

Edited August 21, 2017 by MaxYakov

[maewang99]

man oh man.... they sure have their work cut out for them.

against hate speech? you mean the folks who proclaim that man was made in the Image of God? one particular image? and who don't "believe" in science? 

in Amerikee????

that's a lot of people.

    

Edited August 21, 2017 by maewang99

[attrayant]

12 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Ok ... Care to adjust their classification for us ignorant and potentially insane people?

 

That would be a pretty significant hijack of the thread.  It seems to be you who are adjusting the meanings.  Fascism is a left-wing ideology?  Really?  Why not do yourself a favor by sticking to the commonly accepted meanings? Fascism, for example, is in most ways diametrically opposed to liberalism (which I think we can agree is left-wing ideology), and usually considered a far-right ideology within the left/right political spectrum.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

That would be a pretty significant hijack of the thread.  It seems to be you who are adjusting the meanings.  Fascism is a left-wing ideology?  Really?  Why not do yourself a favor by sticking to the commonly accepted meanings? Fascism, for example, is in most ways diametrically opposed to liberalism (which I think we can agree is left-wing ideology), and usually considered a far-right ideology within the left/right political spectrum.

Yes. But authoritarian regimes can occur both on the left and right. trump is a wannabe right wing authoritarian regime but there is hope that he's too incompetent to actually fully pull that off. However, he can and is doing a lot of DAMAGE. Such as sucking up to Putin. Sucking up to alt-right / Nazis. Working very hard to suppress the votes of poor people and minorities. 

[MaxYakov]

4 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

That would be a pretty significant hijack of the thread.  It seems to be you who are adjusting the meanings.  Fascism is a left-wing ideology?  Really?  Why not do yourself a favor by sticking to the commonly accepted meanings? Fascism, for example, is in most ways diametrically opposed to liberalism (which I think we can agree is left-wing ideology), and usually considered a far-right ideology within the left/right political spectrum.

Why? The "commonly accepted meanings" are "The Big Lie", that's why.

 

It would be a typical liberal cop-out to declare that a discussion of ideology would be a "hijack" of this thread. Ideology and the freedom to discuss it is what Boston, Charlottesville and Berkeley were about and what this thread is about.

[Jingthing]

Why? The "commonly accepted meanings" are "The Big Lie", that's why.
 
It would be a typical liberal cop-out to declare that a discussion of ideology would be a "hijack" of this thread. Ideology and the freedom to discuss it is what Boston, Charlottesville and Berkeley were about and what this thread is about.

Funny I thought they were about Nazi scum feeling emboldened to show their faces because there's now a perverse fascist in the white house and anti-Nazi Americans pushing back. Nazi Kkk alt right white nationalist white supremacist interchangeable. Not all trumpists are in the Nazi camp of course. But too many for comfort.

[MaxYakov]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Funny I thought they were about Nazi scum feeling emboldened to show their faces because there's now a perverse fascist in the white house and anti-Nazi Americans pushing back. Nazi Kkk alt right white nationalist white supremacist interchangeable. Not all trumpists are in the Nazi camp of course. But too many for comfort.

So you attempted thought, did you?

 

That's right, so Trump was elected (via the electoral college) by the 62,984,825 popular votes, a percentage of which were of the American Facists, KKK, Nazis, etc. (identifying these groups as alt-right for the purpose of this reply).

 

So what percentage do you think, of the approximately 63 million Trump voters, were actually alt-right?

[Jingthing]

So you attempted thought, did you?

 

That's right, so Trump was elected (via the electoral college) by the 62,984,825 popular votes, a percentage of which were of the American Facists, KKK, Nazis, etc. (identifying these groups as alt-right for the purpose of this reply).

 

So what percentage do you think, of the approximately 63 million Trump voters, were actually alt-right?

I don't know but a large percentage sympathetic to white resentment dog whistles. Similar to Islamic Jihadists. Small in number but large numbers sympathetic. This alt right scum was always potentially there but the clown potus has inflamed the situation.

 

Alt right is just a PR rebranding of the same old horror show of white supremacists, Nazis, and Kkk. Calling it alt right makes it sound cool to impressionable young people. These fascist scum recruit online the same as Islamist extremists.

 

 

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

If you don't listen to dissenting views you have no way of constructing an informed opinion. I believe we are reading so many completely balmy posts due to the poster living on a diet of CNN and Washington post and their ilk which would account for some of these bizarre posts.

 

 For myself, I value posts which go against my thoughts so long as they are well reasoned. Over the years my opinions of world politics have changed greatly thanks to having digested thoughts from all sides.

 

 It is sad to read posters above agreeing that free speech is bad, and not seeing that somebody must decide what is acceptable/not acceptable so there is an inherent problem there.

Why do you think unlimited free speech is good?