What is it with all the fruit wine concealed as red wine?

[Na Fan]

gf just got back from Foodland - asked specifically for a red wine for cooking. What did they give her? A plumb/fruit wine (that looked exactly like you'd expect a bottle of red wine to look).

 

So I ventured to 7-11 and got a bottle of red. French named bottle, looked exactly like a bottle of red wine. Guess what, on the back of the label, in the tiniest font imaginable, there's a little text saying "fruit wine".

 

I rarely bitch around, but what the hell is up with that?

 

I been drinking red wines for 20 years, and I've never encountered crap like this before. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind fruit wines. Especially women love drinking them. Not a big fan myself. But what really pisses me off is the way they cheat you into thinking you're buying red wine, when in reality you're not.

 

Why can't they properly label the crap for what it is? 

[Carib]

It is a tax thing. Fruit wine is taxed low. Normal wine high, hence the price after import. 

It is a trick to make it a bit fruity so it can be imported/sold cheaper.

[Na Fan]

I can understand that. But why can't they label it properly and in a clearly visible manner? That's what gets me.

[ExpatOilWorker]

As far as I know it is a tax loophole and only the company that have the SPY wine cooler licence is allowed to produce fruit wines.

Originally it was 97% wine and 3% grape juice, so should be good enough for your cooking.

[Mooner]

3 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

I can understand that. But why can't they label it properly and in a clearly visible manner? That's what gets me.

It is labelled properly. Just read the label and look out for the import tax sticker on the back.

[binjalin]

Because Thais are Thais and it's a tax dodge and it's VERY annoying that they don't label clearly and Rimping, TOPS and Wine Connection do not separate them from the 'real' wine and so, often, we all buy them unknowingly.

Edited August 25, 2017 by binjalin

[binjalin]

34 minutes ago, Mooner said:

It is labelled properly. Just read the label and look out for the import tax sticker on the back.

BS most are labelled in very small writing. No one reads every line don't be a fruit wine apologist.

[tonray]

I just got caught in the fruit win fiasco...but....the Red Wine I did bring home was Mulberry and actually is not too far off from a real cheap Bordeaux. A bit thin on tannins and body not drinkable.

[1BADDAT]

35 minutes ago, binjalin said:

BS most are labelled in very small writing. No one reads every line don't be a fruit wine apologist.

Just look at the price tag first.  If it is cheap then it is most likely fruit wine.

[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, Mooner said:

It is labelled properly. Just read the label and look out for the import tax sticker on the back.

If you are referring to the "wines" in bottles and boxes seen on supermarket shelves, I disagree. I've never seen the words "fruit wine" on the front label. Even though the words appear on the back label they are in tiny print, and the proportion of fruit juice is never stated (I believe it can be as high as 20%). Also, the type of fruit is never mentioned.

 

To me that is deliberately misleading.

 

Of course, there are some genuine fruit wines around - no grapes involved - and they are clearly labelled, even with pictures of the fruit (mangosteen, lychee, etc). Maybe they are the ones you say are clearly labelled.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by chickenslegs

[Denim]

Always check the label. If you are looking for non fruit wine you can forget 7/11.

[1BADDAT]

25 minutes ago, Denim said:

Always check the label. If you are looking for non fruit wine you can forget 7/11.

That is not true.  They have Jacob's Creek from Australia at many 7-11's i've been.  It is like 5-600 baht a bottle though.

[ChidlomDweller]

First of all, look at the label over the cap.  Blue means imported as is, brown-orange means it was imported as fruit juice (wine with alcohol extracted) with the alcohol added back in and bottled in Thailand as a tax dodge.  At least that bit is easy to see.  Anything under 400 Baht a bottle as well as cardboard boxes are nearly always with the orange label -- an abomination I refuse to drink.

 

Another red flag is where they call it "red" instead of "red wine".  If they studiously avoid to use the word "wine", you know why.  

 

Finally, read the fine print on the back and look for "fruit wine", "fruit blend" or the like.  

 

Annoying nanny-state shit like this is what's making me tired of this country.  

[nisakiman]

Of course the reason there is all this 'fruit wine' malarkey is because for some unfathomable reason known only to whoever thought of it, wine attracts a punitive rate of tax - I think by the time it gets into your shopping basket, some 430% in tax and duties have been levied. It's utterly ludicrous, and there is no rhyme or reason behind it. As a wine drinker, it's the one thing that that really annoys me when we're in Thailand. You pay 500 Baht, and you get a bottle of garbage. Where I am, that money will buy you a very decent, above average wine. My daily table wine, a locally made Merlot (currently the 2015 vintage, 12% ABV) which is immeasurably better than the 500 Baht stuff, I buy in 10 litre boxes for €18.70, which works out to 55 Baht per bottle. That's a tenth of the price of the garbage bottle in Big C or wherever.

[observer90210]

Better to put wine bottles,  on the Duty Free "to-buy-list", when entering Thailand!!....And naturally, drink with moderation!

[chickenslegs]

28 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Better to put wine bottles,  on the Duty Free "to-buy-list", when entering Thailand!!....And naturally, drink with moderation!

Only 1 Litre allowed.

So, even moderate consumption is not possible.

[1BADDAT]

41 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Better to put wine bottles,  on the Duty Free "to-buy-list", when entering Thailand!!....And naturally, drink with moderation!

Unless you bring in the wine from another country, the "duty free" wine at the airport is not very good value.  The rules for duty free make little sense.  1 liter of alcohol regardless of alcohol %.  The liquor at least is manufactured in 1 liter bottles to maximize the amount.  I don't think I have ever seen wine in 1L bottles for duty free import.

[chickenslegs]

Tesco Lotus has a range of wines called "Vineyards World Wines" (3 reds and 3 whites) which, as far as I can tell, are unadulterated. The grape variety is shown on the front label (Shiraz, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonney, Semillon, Sauvignon blanc) at around 350B - about 50B more than the Peter Vella/Castle Creek/Mont Clair/Mari Sol/etc. stuff.

 

To be honest, it's quite decent for the price - miles better than the "fruit wine" choices.

 

If you are lucky, your local Tesco Lotus may have a "Tesco Finest" section. Some of the choices there are pretty good, though more expensive than back home. I recently enjoyed a nice bottle of Chianti reserva for 499B.

 

OK - it would have only cost around 4 - 5 GBP (170 - 220 Baht) back home, but a bargain here in Thailand.

 

 

,

[Happy Grumpy]

Isn't it absolutely outrageous.

 

I want French prices!

 

With extra discounts.

 

 

Just because I'm so special.

 

 

God help the Frenchman in France that want's a 2 hour 3-way Thaigirl body massage for 40 Euros, like here. 

[chickenslegs]

Just now, Happy Grumpy said:

Isn't it absolutely outrageous.

 

I want French prices!

 

With extra discounts.

 

 

Just because I'm so special.

 

 

God help the Frenchman in France that want's a 2 hour 3-way Thaigirl body massage for 40 Euros, like here. 

I just want an honest description of what I am buying - then I can choose what price I am willing to pay.

[Na Fan]

I couldn't agree more with most of you - the labeling stinks.

 

There's so many different things at play here. On one side you've got ridiculously cheap alcohol to just get you drunk (see Lao Khao at 60-something Baht/bottle). On the flip side you have a "cheap" bottle of wine that they sell you for 10-15x that price. This leads to the impression that "it's ok" to get smashed, but "it's not ok" to actually enjoy drinking alcoholic beverages or heck, cook food with them.  I too have been buying the red wine in Europe from the "lower" shelves on many occasions and equally, the house wine in many Italian of French places, because it is often as enjoyable as a $100-bottle. And it often is good wine. Cheaply sold, but very good. 

 

But I digress. Back to the labeling topic. Picture this. You're standing in a 7-11, Tesco, whatever, and they have the alcohol safely tucked away behind the counter. Thus you're about 2-3 meters away from the bottles' labels, because, often, the "red wines" are on the top shelves. Thus if you want one, the staff has to get a chair or a small ladder out to get it for you. So far so good. But as it turns out the bottle you wanted happens to have the tiny lil "fruity fruity" label on the arse. Now I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable to ask the guy/girl to repeatedly climb up the ladder again and again just so I can read the back label of the bottle to see if what I'm about to buy is indeed a proper red wine, or some spin-off of one.  And obviously, the staff won't know (and honestly, I can't blame them) and thus can't be asked, either. It puts the consumer - at least in my opinion - in a silly situation. 

 

change.org, anyone? <shrug>

 

 

[nisakiman]

19 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

I couldn't agree more with most of you - the labeling stinks.

 

There's so many different things at play here. On one side you've got ridiculously cheap alcohol to just get you drunk (see Lao Khao at 60-something Baht/bottle). On the flip side you have a "cheap" bottle of wine that they sell you for 10-15x that price. This leads to the impression that "it's ok" to get smashed, but "it's not ok" to actually enjoy drinking alcoholic beverages or heck, cook food with them.  I too have been buying the red wine in Europe from the "lower" shelves on many occasions and equally, the house wine in many Italian of French places, because it is often as enjoyable as a $100-bottle. And it often is good wine. Cheaply sold, but very good. 

 

But I digress. Back to the labeling topic. Picture this. You're standing in a 7-11, Tesco, whatever, and they have the alcohol safely tucked away behind the counter. Thus you're about 2-3 meters away from the bottles' labels, because, often, the "red wines" are on the top shelves. Thus if you want one, the staff has to get a chair or a small ladder out to get it for you. So far so good. But as it turns out the bottle you wanted happens to have the tiny lil "fruity fruity" label on the arse. Now I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable to ask the guy/girl to repeatedly climb up the ladder again and again just so I can read the back label of the bottle to see if what I'm about to buy is indeed a proper red wine, or some spin-off of one.  And obviously, the staff won't know (and honestly, I can't blame them) and thus can't be asked, either. It puts the consumer - at least in my opinion - in a silly situation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it seems that all the alcohol laws here are designed to inconvenience and frustrate the normal, average Joe who likes a bit of a tipple, and do nothing to address the actual problem of alcohol abuse. Even the stupid laws about not being able to buy alcohol near schools and between 2 and 5 merely serves to make life difficult for ordinary people, and makes not one iota of difference to alcoholics and/or underage drinkers. They will always find a way, laws or no laws.

 

change.org, anyone? <shrug>

 

Don't hold your breath. The people who come up with these ideas live in a parallel universe. Reality doesn't come into it.

[chickenslegs]

35 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

I couldn't agree more with most of you - the labeling stinks.

 

There's so many different things at play here. On one side you've got ridiculously cheap alcohol to just get you drunk (see Lao Khao at 60-something Baht/bottle). On the flip side you have a "cheap" bottle of wine that they sell you for 10-15x that price. This leads to the impression that "it's ok" to get smashed, but "it's not ok" to actually enjoy drinking alcoholic beverages or heck, cook food with them.  I too have been buying the red wine in Europe from the "lower" shelves on many occasions and equally, the house wine in many Italian of French places, because it is often as enjoyable as a $100-bottle. And it often is good wine. Cheaply sold, but very good. 

 

But I digress. Back to the labeling topic. Picture this. You're standing in a 7-11, Tesco, whatever, and they have the alcohol safely tucked away behind the counter. Thus you're about 2-3 meters away from the bottles' labels, because, often, the "red wines" are on the top shelves. Thus if you want one, the staff has to get a chair or a small ladder out to get it for you. So far so good. But as it turns out the bottle you wanted happens to have the tiny lil "fruity fruity" label on the arse. Now I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable to ask the guy/girl to repeatedly climb up the ladder again and again just so I can read the back label of the bottle to see if what I'm about to buy is indeed a proper red wine, or some spin-off of one.  And obviously, the staff won't know (and honestly, I can't blame them) and thus can't be asked, either. It puts the consumer - at least in my opinion - in a silly situation. 

 

change.org, anyone? <shrug>

 

 

As far as I can tell, in the 7-11 and Mini Big C /Mini Tesco the only real  "wine" is Jacob's Creek @ 600B+.

However, even at that price, it may have been standing upright on a high shelf in temperatures of 30C+ for many months and will be undrinkable (OK, I'm not too fussy, so I'd probably drink it anyway).

 

[binjalin]

5 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

I just want an honest description of what I am buying - then I can choose what price I am willing to pay.

This is the point. I have spoken to Rimping on several occasions about mixing in the fruit wine rubbish amongst the 'real' wines and, frankly, they don't understand the difference.

 

Several have said to me "yes wine is made from grapes... fruit!"

[binjalin]

8 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

First of all, look at the label over the cap.  Blue means imported as is, brown-orange means it was imported as fruit juice (wine with alcohol extracted) with the alcohol added back in and bottled in Thailand as a tax dodge.  At least that bit is easy to see.  Anything under 400 Baht a bottle as well as cardboard boxes are nearly always with the orange label -- an abomination I refuse to drink.

 

Another red flag is where they call it "red" instead of "red wine".  If they studiously avoid to use the word "wine", you know why.  

 

Finally, read the fine print on the back and look for "fruit wine", "fruit blend" or the like.  

 

Annoying nanny-state shit like this is what's making me tired of this country.  

 Some good advice thanks. The price point is obvious but I had not realised 'blue' was unadulterated and orange was 'tax dodge' fruit 'hope you don't find out dear consumer'.

 

The whole thing is just a deceit and, lets be fair, Thais are clueless. 

[ChidlomDweller]

6 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Isn't it absolutely outrageous.

 

I want French prices!

 

With extra discounts.

 

 

Just because I'm so special.

 

 

God help the Frenchman in France that want's a 2 hour 3-way Thaigirl body massage for 40 Euros, like here. 

While I have your sympathetic ear, almost as annoying are the dimwits stores employ to stand  50cm next to you and bore a hole in you with their eyes while you make your selection.  Then when you make a choice they point at a random wine just a bit more expensive.  Who are they fooling, they wouldn't know if Merlot is a region or a grape, and sure like hell they've never tasted the wines they're recommending.  

[tharae]

11 hours ago, Mooner said:

It is labelled properly. Just read the label and look out for the import tax sticker on the back.

Better still, look at the label wrapped over the top of the lid.  Blue label is wine, orange label is fruit wine. 

[Oxx]

9 hours ago, nisakiman said:

I think by the time it gets into your shopping basket, some 430% in tax and duties have been levied. It's utterly ludicrous, and there is no rhyme or reason behind it.

 

Oh yes there is:

 

(1) Placing high taxes on wine protects the businesses of the Thai producers of alternative alcoholic products whose profits would otherwise be eroded by people drinking wine.

 

(2) The taxes on domestically produced wine are roughly half that on imported wine, so domestic producers can match the retail prices of imported wine and make an enormous profit.

 

Everything is done for the benefit of a few fabulously wealthy families, not the ordinary people.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, Oxx said:

Everything is done for the benefit of a few fabulously wealthy families, not the ordinary people.

 

In fairness, jacking up the price of wine is a political no-brainer since most "ordinary people" will never buy any.  Not much chance of any popular backlash outside the expat community.

 

Which doesn't mean it doesn't stink...

[craigt3365]

12 hours ago, Mooner said:

It is labelled properly. Just read the label and look out for the import tax sticker on the back.

It's in fine print. Very misleading. We bought a bottle that looked like French wine. Said the region, etc. In very small print on the back at the bottom of the label,  it said made in Vietnam.

 

Horrible practice.