What is it with all the fruit wine concealed as red wine?

[StayinThailand2much]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Yanks is a term many in the US find derogatory. Use it in certain places and you'll be on the floor in no time.

 

45 years in the US and NEVER saw anybody put ice in beer. Never.

Well, I wouldn't use 'Yanks' offline in the U.S, and I certainly meant it in a friendly way. I actually just read it recently in a headline of a U.S. sports magazine.

 

Also, I've never been to the U.S.; maybe they only put ice into beer in Hollywood movies and TV shows. But the habit of filling up 2/3 of a beer glass with big chunks of ice, as is common in SE Asia, has to come from somewhere, and I doubt that the French introduced it... 

Edited August 26, 2017 by StayinThailand2much

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Don't know if you're serious or not, however perhaps this will help: –

 

1). “Within the European Union, the term "wine" in English and in translation is reserved exclusively for the fermented juice of grapes”.

 

What a shame.  When I was in college, a buddy of mine made his own wine out of all kinds of fruits and fruit juices.  He usually had 3 or 4 batches brewing (or whatever they call it) at any given time.  The stuff he made out of grapes was probably the most boring, though it is tough to buy good wine grapes in a small college town- on a college kid's budget.  Some of his concoctions were downright nasty, but some were quite good.

 

I can't see any harm in labeling something "Peach Wine", as long as it's accurately described.

 

[StayinThailand2much]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Don't know if you're serious or not, however perhaps this will help: –

 

1). “Within the European Union, the term "wine" in English and in translation is reserved exclusively for the fermentedjuice of grapes”.

...

it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

 

 

There you go; Thailand, last time I checked, wasn't a EU member country. Besides, drinking or selling of wine is quite novel in Thailand, and most Thais I know still don't know what it even tastes like...

[Oxx]

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'm not sure what the redneck penalty is for red wine, though.

 

In civilised circles it is as unacceptable to refer to poor white Americans as "rednecks" as it is to use racial slurs for Negroes, Hispanics, Moslems and Jews.

[Laza 45]

14 hours ago, 1BADDAT said:

That is not true.  They have Jacob's Creek from Australia at many 7-11's i've been.  It is like 5-600 baht a bottle though.

..600 or is it 650 Bt.. anyway.. in Australia you can buy it for about $10 or so.. 250 Bt.. ..

[piersbeckett]

4 hours ago, tharae said:

Better still, look at the label wrapped over the top of the lid.  Blue label is wine, orange label is fruit wine. 

I bought one bottle of 'Brookford' Colombard (Chardonnay) from Australia for Baht 290.00. and one bottle of 'Ramirana' Reserva (Chardonnay) from Chile for Baht 380.00. last week at Villa in Hua Hin for cooking - both blue wraps with no 'fruit' mentioned anywhere.

 

Trouble might be that the 'Brookford' is labelled 2011 & the 'Ramirana' 2010.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, Oxx said:

In civilised circles it is as unacceptable to refer to poor white Americans as "rednecks" as it is to use racial slurs for Negroes, Hispanics, Moslems and Jews.

 

Being a proud Texas redneck myself, I'm allowed.

 

We do, however, object to being called poor white Americans.  Lots of us are neither poor, nor white.

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by impulse

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, Na Fan said:

Why can't they properly label the crap for what it is? 

Grapes are fruits – even a fine Bordeaux wine is labelled "Fruit wine" – don't worry, a French, or any other, red wine is still a red wine, and you may not need a premier cry for cooking...

–and fruit is healthy, so wine made from fruit is healthy...

[Bangkok Barry]

13 hours ago, nisakiman said:

Of course the reason there is all this 'fruit wine' malarkey is because for some unfathomable reason known only to whoever thought of it, wine attracts a punitive rate of tax - I think by the time it gets into your shopping basket, some 430% in tax and duties have been levied. It's utterly ludicrous, and there is no rhyme or reason behind it. As a wine drinker, it's the one thing that that really annoys me when we're in Thailand. You pay 500 Baht, and you get a bottle of garbage. Where I am, that money will buy you a very decent, above average wine. My daily table wine, a locally made Merlot (currently the 2015 vintage, 12% ABV) which is immeasurably better than the 500 Baht stuff, I buy in 10 litre boxes for €18.70, which works out to 55 Baht per bottle. That's a tenth of the price of the garbage bottle in Big C or wherever.

 

There IS rhyme or reason it is taxed so highly, as are cars and other imported goods deemed to be luxurious. Due to low incomes and a very large black economy very few, I believe 10 percent, of Thais pay tax. Where do you expect the government to get funds from to run the country? It is therefore logical to tax items that are not considered essential or for everyday use.

[janpharma]

A few months ago somebody told us to try the red wine named "Brookfort"...We bought a box and were very surprised when we saw following remark: "contains sulphite, milk and eggs"...We wouldn't recommend it...

[topt]

6 minutes ago, khunPer said:

even a fine Bordeaux wine is labelled "Fruit wine"

Please show an example.............

Did you miss zylophones recent post on the definition of "wine"?

[Jaggg88]

13 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Better to put wine bottles,  on the Duty Free "to-buy-list", when entering Thailand!!....And naturally, drink with moderation!

The allowance is 1 litre which means only one bottle 

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, janpharma said:

A few months ago somebody told us to try the red wine named "Brookfort"...We bought a box and were very surprised when we saw following remark: "contains sulphite, milk and eggs"...We wouldn't recommend it...

 

I'm surprised it didn't declare that it may contain peanuts and shellfish, given the liability companies face in the nanny states.

 

[xylophone]

42 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

There you go; Thailand, last time I checked, wasn't a EU member country. Besides, drinking or selling of wine is quite novel in Thailand, and most Thais I know still don't know what it even tastes like...

This might also help...............The definitions of vitivinicultural products are included in the first part of the International Code of Oenological Practices.

[topt]

10 minutes ago, janpharma said:

A few months ago somebody told us to try the red wine named "Brookfort"...We bought a box and were very surprised when we saw following remark: "contains sulphite, milk and eggs"...We wouldn't recommend it...

Sulphites are used to preserve the wine and milk and eggs can be for clarifying - not necessarily the reason why you would not recommend it

 

 

[Thian]

17 hours ago, Na Fan said:

But what really pisses me off is the way they cheat you into thinking you're buying red wine, when in reality you're not.

Mate haven't you noticed that even the girls in Thailand are no girls???

 

If you want something of a high quality in Thailand you'll have to make it yourself.

 

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, janpharma said:

A few months ago somebody told us to try the red wine named "Brookfort"...We bought a box and were very surprised when we saw following remark: "contains sulphite, milk and eggs"...We wouldn't recommend it...

Sorry to have to inform you that just about all wines unless they are labelled "organic or natural" contain one or more of these.

 

Sulphur is commonly used in the vineyard to kill bugs just before harvesting and is also sometimes added during the crushing process. It can be added to the finished product to stop secondary fermentation, this especially in white wines. Organic or natural wines try to limit this however this term can still be used provided a very small amount of sulphur is added.

 

Egg whites have been used for "fining" wine for centuries and milk just more recently I believe.

[ELVIS123456]

Used to drink lots of very good red wine when in Aust - even owned a few bottles of Grange. Came to Thailand and through much trial and error, and many many disappointments, I eventually decided that all the wine being sold here is crap. It is either crap because it is crap (vast majority), or it is crap because it costs way too much and it only a half-decent wine anyway. The only good wine I have ever found was ridiculously expensive, and many of the same type/price were crap because they had not been transported and/or stored properly.  Therefore, I decided it is all crap and I dont buy/drink wine in Thailand.

 

One of the good things about visiting Aust is sitting down with some mates over lunch/dinner and enjoying a very good wine that doesnt cost way too much and is always 'good'.  Try telling a Thai waiter that the 3000+ baht baht bottle of wine you have ordered is 'off' - and just watch their expression if you say you want it replaced.  I dont ride a motorbike in Thailand, and I dont buy/drink wine.

 

However, I have found that many of the 'distilled wines' (Brandy, Cognac, etc) and some of the fortified wines (Sherry, Port etc) are actually OK.  The price is a little higher, or about the same as back in Aust, and through trial and error I have found a few that I like - but it takes a bit to find them.

[Oxx]

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Sulphur is commonly used in the vineyard to kill bugs just before harvesting and is also sometimes added during the crushing process. It can be added to the finished product to stop secondary fermentation

 

You appear to be confusing sulphur, an element used as a fungicide, with sulphite which is an antioxidant used to stop wine in the bottle oxidising.

 

Never heard of sulphur being added during crushing.  It just doesn't make sense.

 

And secondary fermentation is stopped by filtration, removing all yeast cells from the wine, not by adding sulphur.

[StayinThailand2much]

18 minutes ago, topt said:

Sulphites are used to preserve the wine and milk and eggs can be for clarifying - not necessarily the reason why you would not recommend it

 

 

I didn't know that there are "milk (products)" and "egg (protein)" in wine,  (well, you learn something every day!), but as it turns out, these things can (now) be found on wine labels of EU wines, effective 1st July 2012.

[StayinThailand2much]

EU PLANS NEW LABELLING LAWS FOR ALLERGENS

25th June, 2012 by Patrick Schmitt

The European Union is planning to implement new allergen labelling requirements for wine from the start of next month.

The proposed new law is designed to alert consumers to wines which have used milk or egg products in the fining process and have not tested negative for residues using a technique with a detection limit of 0.25mg/l.

Wine from the 2011 vintage and earlier will be exempt from the latest EU labelling rules, which are due to be enforced on 1 July, as will wines from this year’s harvest if they are labelled before the end of the month.

According to EU guidelines, the allergen indications may be in one of the following forms:

• Contains milk, Contains milk products, Contains milk casein or Contains milk protein.

• Contains egg, Contains egg products, Contains egg protein, Contains egg lysozyme or Contains egg albumin

However, if multiple allergens are present there is no need to repeat the word “contains”.

Hence the phrase “Contains sulphites, milk, egg” would suffice if all three allergens were present.

If wine is to be marketed in all 27 EU countries it may be necessary to label in a minimum of 15 languages, and hence a pictorial alternative has been developed (see below).

The logo must be used in conjunction with text stating the presence of the allergins.

The proposed new allergen logos my be used in black and white or colour and no minimum print height has been given

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by StayinThailand2much

[khunPer]

46 minutes ago, topt said:

Please show an example.............

Did you miss zylophones recent post on the definition of "wine"?

Ops, thanks; maybe I did not read the label carefully enough on the last bottle of Muton bought here – and I don't keep empty bottles – the normal reasonable cheap French or Spanish table-wine I buy, are always tax-tagged "fruit wine"...

–thought all imported wines were label "fruit wine" for tax reasons.

Edited August 26, 2017 by khunPer

[seajae]

the labels tell you the grape varietal used, ie, merlot, shiraz, grenache, etc, if it is a fruit wine it cannot be classified as normal varieties. I am currently getting a brilliant imported merlot for just over 500 baht a bottle, a real surprise and it is good, just have to shop around

[nisakiman]

58 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

There IS rhyme or reason it is taxed so highly, as are cars and other imported goods deemed to be luxurious. Due to low incomes and a very large black economy very few, I believe 10 percent, of Thais pay tax. Where do you expect the government to get funds from to run the country? It is therefore logical to tax items that are not considered essential or for everyday use.

 

So presumably imported Scotch whisky at less than 600 Baht a bottle is considered essential for everyday use? That's comparable to prices in Europe - in fact cheaper than many countries. And there is a Thai whisky industry which is probably larger than the Thai wine industry, which is tiny, so it can't be protectionism. So why has wine been singled out for punitive taxation when whisky has not?

 

As I say, there is no rhyme or reason behind it. It makes no sense at all. If imported whisky was taxed at the same rate, I could see some logic in it, but the way it is is beyond comprehension.

 

[topt]

14 minutes ago, seajae said:

the labels tell you the grape varietal used, ie, merlot, shiraz, grenache, etc, if it is a fruit wine it cannot be classified as normal varieties. I am currently getting a brilliant imported merlot for just over 500 baht a bottle, a real surprise and it is good, just have to shop around

Care to share?

[Jonnapat]

15 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

First of all, look at the label over the cap.  Blue means imported as is, brown-orange means it was imported as fruit juice (wine with alcohol extracted) with the alcohol added back in and bottled in Thailand as a tax dodge.  At least that bit is easy to see.  Anything under 400 Baht a bottle as well as cardboard boxes are nearly always with the orange label -- an abomination I refuse to drink.

 

Another red flag is where they call it "red" instead of "red wine".  If they studiously avoid to use the word "wine", you know why.  

 

Finally, read the fine print on the back and look for "fruit wine", "fruit blend" or the like.  

 

Annoying nanny-state shit like this is what's making me tired of this country.  

Join the club, every trick known to man is used to deceive here

[brewsterbudgen]

To me, the 299-399 baht bottles of wine are just "cheap wine".

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Thian said:

If you want something of a high quality in Thailand you'll have to make it yourself.

Never a truer word Thain. This is how we do it in our village.

 

Buy a 7 litre keg of Low khow.

Buy half litre of concentrated fruit juice (CFJ) I like raspberry.

Pour the CFJ into the Low Khow (not the other way 'round)

Shake well; but not that well that some is spilled.

Start the music and let the girls in.

 

Another recipe is similar but takes longer to prepare. 

Get half kilo of ginger. 

Peel and then grate the ginger.

Put in a pan with a little water.

Bring to the boil and simmer for 3.5 minutes.

Turn off the heat and let it cool.

Strain it.

Mix it into the Low Khow.

Start the music and let the girls in.

 

Total cost for 7.5 litres; 380 Bhat

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by owl sees all
added more content

[Lucky mike]

15 hours ago, nisakiman said:

Of course the reason there is all this 'fruit wine' malarkey is because for some unfathomable reason known only to whoever thought of it, wine attracts a punitive rate of tax - I think by the time it gets into your shopping basket, some 430% in tax and duties have been levied. It's utterly ludicrous, and there is no rhyme or reason behind it. As a wine drinker, it's the one thing that that really annoys me when we're in Thailand. You pay 500 Baht, and you get a bottle of garbage. Where I am, that money will buy you a very decent, above average wine. My daily table wine, a locally made Merlot (currently the 2015 vintage, 12% ABV) which is immeasurably better than the 500 Baht stuff, I buy in 10 litre boxes for €18.70, which works out to 55 Baht per bottle. That's a tenth of the price of the garbage bottle in Big C or wherever.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Lucky mike
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[Cranky]

No such thing as cooking wine,  just crap wine.  Golden rule is never cook with wine you wouldn't drink.