Britain cannot be blackmailed by EU over exit bill: minister

[aright]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Frankly, the divorce payment is de minimis 

 

We'll storm out and create a low rent, low class, low quality, low pay, low civil society with a few Dickensian toffs driving the underclasses! 

 

 

Just a reminder.  We are not in a marriage we are in a club and there is no exit fee when you leave a club. But that aside we do have some moral obligations.

 

I would have thought Dickensian would have suited you, you sound like a real Seth Pecksniff   

 

Because of my contacts in Brussels I have  some important information. I am telling you dear boy because I have heard  you have a vested interest. 

 

AN administrative error means everyone who voted to leave the EU will be deported in a matter of weeks, it has emerged.

The Home Office mistake will result in all Leave voters being relocated to destinations as varied as Islamabad and Brussels.

A government spokesman said: “We can’t reverse the decision because all our staff are busy with half-baked Brexit plans from David Davis, which are usually just something scribbled on a Post-it.

“Leavers will just have to show some Blitz spirit and get used to life in Finland or wherever. They’ll be given help to relocate, such as a suitcase full of baked beans and cornflakes.”

Pensioner Roy Hobbs said: “I’ve got to move somewhere called Aruba, which sounds like some African hellhole to me. I bet you won’t even be able to get a frozen Bird’s Eye Traditional Beef Dinner.”

 

Please keep this info to yourself.

Edited September 1, 2017 by aright

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Just a reminder.  We are not in a marriage we are in a club and there is no exit fee when you leave a club. But that aside we do have some moral obligations.

 

I would have thought Dickensian would have suited you, you sound like a real Seth Pecksniff   

 

Because of my contacts in Brussels I have  some important information. I am telling you dear boy because I have heard  you have a vested interest. 

 

AN administrative error means everyone who voted to leave the EU will be deported in a matter of weeks, it has emerged.

The Home Office mistake will result in all Leave voters being relocated to destinations as varied as Islamabad and Brussels.

A government spokesman said: “We can’t reverse the decision because all our staff are busy with half-baked Brexit plans from David Davis, which are usually just something scribbled on a Post-it.

“Leavers will just have to show some Blitz spirit and get used to life in Finland or wherever. They’ll be given help to relocate, such as a suitcase full of baked beans and cornflakes.”

Pensioner Roy Hobbs said: “I’ve got to move somewhere called Aruba, which sounds like some African hellhole to me. I bet you won’t even be able to get a frozen Bird’s Eye Traditional Beef Dinner.”

 

Please keep this info to yourself.

"We are not in a marriage we are in a club and there is no exit fee when you leave a club "

Have you ever tried to leave a club with out paying your bar bill?

[BaldPlumber]

19 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"We are not in a marriage we are in a club and there is no exit fee when you leave a club "

Have you ever tried to leave a club with out paying your bar bill?

 

Generally you might not expect to pay any future non-existent bar bills, let alone any future bar bills for other members when you leave the club.

[aright]

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"We are not in a marriage we are in a club and there is no exit fee when you leave a club "

Have you ever tried to leave a club with out paying your bar bill?

You need to differentiate between a bar and a club.

When I leave the bar at my Golf Club I am not leaving (as in resigning) from the club I am simply leaving the bar and of course I have to pay my bar bill. However if I decide to leave(as in resign) from the Club as opposed to the bar no fines or charges are imposed on me.

[chrissables]

14 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

Vote or no vote, it is about time someone had the guts to stop this nonsense before the U.K goes completely down the pan.

No plan, no strategy, no idea.

 

No agreement will be a total disaster.

All because a few old codgers who live in the past still thing that little england still rules the world.

A few old codgers? You mean 52% of the people who voted? Democracy is great as long you get the result you want.

[ballpoint]

11 hours ago, chang50 said:

They'll never see it the people who are prepared to destroy their home countries economy and their personal finances living abroad to satisfy deeply ingrained prejudices (in many cases).

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by ballpoint

[phantomfiddler]

15 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

Vote or no vote, it is about time someone had the guts to stop this nonsense before the U.K goes completely down the pan.

No plan, no strategy, no idea.

 

No agreement will be a total disaster.

All because a few old codgers who live in the past still thing that little england still rules the world.

I honestly (being one of these old codgers) do not think for a minute that we Brits England still rule the world, but I do believe that most of us want out because we do not want to be dragged further down the plughole by all these European deadbeats and no-hopers. Sure, the transition will be rough, but it will be worth it in the long run.

[nabbie]

Does that make the sense UK pays the first installment to EU without knowing the finalised bill? Sorry, the answer is NO. Until all the finalised details must be agreed and completed first including trade, border, etc.... 

Edited September 2, 2017 by nabbie
grammar

[KunMatt]

They'll never see it the people who are prepared to destroy their home countries economy and their personal finances living abroad to satisfy deeply ingrained prejudices (in many cases).

So isn't this exactly what you are doing??

You are quite happy to sell out and destroy the UK and its future just so you can get a better £ to Baht exchange rate, and not even live in the UK but tell everyone who does how wrong they are.

[KunMatt]

So there have been 2 referendums in the past. Maybe it should be the best of three?
 
Personally, I would go with the leave but go to the people with some facts and genuine information to ask what kind of leave they want. So let the people decide if they want a soft or a hard Brexit? Nobody had a clue what they were voting for last time (not blaming one side for that). So give them an informed choice now. Out with no agreement or stay in the single market and customs union. Ask the people and then follow their wishes instead of making it up as they go along.

There was never any such thing as a "soft Brexit" until the Remainers invented the term after the referendum.

The referendum was for a "Hard Brexit" or a "proper Brexit". This is what we were told it was again and again before the vote.

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

So isn't this exactly what you are doing??

You are quite happy to sell out and destroy the UK and its future just so you can get a better £ to Baht exchange rate, and not even live in the UK but tell everyone who does how wrong they are.

 

If the pound goes up in value that would mean that its economy and the future prospects for it look good. So if your idea of selling out the UK means that the economy is doing better, I'm all for selling out.

Edited September 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[KunMatt]

If the pound goes up in value that would mean that its econony and the future prospects for it look good. So if your idea of selling out the UK means that the economy is doing better, I'm all for selling out.

Short term gain for long term pain.

But it's totally in keeping with what I said. Everyone here only cares about themselves and not the future of the UK because they don't live there or they'll be long dead by the time we've fully Brexited and got back on our feet.

I'm still in my 30s with 2 young kids. I figure the long term future is more important to me than you lot getting a few more baht from your pensions every month.

I knew when I voted for Brexit that I was willing to endure all of project fear to make a better future for my kids. Fortunately project fear was 100% lies and propaganda.

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Short term gain for long term pain.

But it's totally in keeping with what I said. Everyone here only cares about themselves and not the future of the UK because they don't live there or they'll be long dead by the time we've fully Brexited and got back on our feet.

I'm still in my 30s with 2 young kids. I figure the long term future is more important to me than you lot getting a few more baht from your pensions every month.

I knew when I voted for Brexit that I was willing to endure all of project fear to make a better future for my kids. Fortunately project fear was 100% lies and propaganda.

 

Brilliant case of zero sum thinking.

But I will say that you're right about project fear. Imagine them denying that 350 million pounds per week would flow to the NHS. Such dishonorable people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

 

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, aright said:

You need to differentiate between a bar and a club.

When I leave the bar at my Golf Club I am not leaving (as in resigning) from the club I am simply leaving the bar and of course I have to pay my bar bill. However if I decide to leave(as in resign) from the Club as opposed to the bar no fines or charges are imposed on me.

As an American I don't propose to know a lot about the Brexit subject other than what I read in the papers or hear on TV. But I do know a thing or two about paying my bills

   and I do know that there are fees and dues to belong to a club whose facilities one enjoys, when one decides to leave such club it would not be unusual for the establishment to ask you to  settle your bill  and pay all past due dues and fees.

  And it would be reasonable for such a club not to let you use their facilities as an associate member or in any capacity until you pay all past due Bills.

They would be well within their rights to say, 

" you want to leave? Fine. But before you can come back and use our pool, you must pay as all the money you owe as"

Edited September 2, 2017 by sirineou
typo

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, BaldPlumber said:

 

Generally you might not expect to pay any future non-existent bar bills, let alone any future bar bills for other members when you leave the club.

Unless you agreed to do so when you joined. 

As I said in an other post , I dont know a lot about this subject other than what I read in the papers and hear on TV , but I do believe the disagreement is  over the , What the Brits agreed to pay when they joined, what they have paid so far, and how much is still owed.

As I said in an other post, no one  is stopping the Brits from leaving,  but before talking  of any future relationship please pay as what you owe as.

Would you not say the same to any of your friend who owes you money??

[KunMatt]

Brilliant case of zero sum thinking.
But I will say that you're right about project fear. Imagine them denying that 350 million pounds per week would flow to the NHS. Such dishonorable people.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/
 

Back to "the bus" argument yet again. Pathetic and just shows that you really have nothing to criticise about Brexit for over a year if you have to continually play "the bus" card on every Brexit thread.

I'm just glad that nobody was stupid enough to be blackmailed into remaining in the EU. I knew Project Fear was all lies and as I expected none of it happened. You want to talk about who lied for votes, nothing comes close to any of Project Fear.

But keep harping on about a suggestion written on the side of the bus one time. That apparently negates being told everyone in the UK would be £4,000 worse off every year and that there would be a punishment budget a week after the vote, or that we would definitely go straight into a recession, or a million people would be out of work, and so on and so on.

But that bus suggestion is the biggest gripe you Remoaners have about the whole leave campaign after all this time. Just proves how little you have to complain about.

[Bundooman]

20 hours ago, Ricardo said:

The EEC-negotiators seem desperate to fix the divorce pay-off first, before getting-down to discussing the other details, this is the sort of thinking which helped cause the vote & result in-the-first-place !

 

Then again, now that Labour are back-peddling fast on the decision to depart, maybe they hope there's a chance we might yet change our minds, and continue paying-in 15% of their annual-budget ? 

 

They may come to regret wasting ever more time at this stage, then again so might we, hopefully someone in Whitehall is contingency-planning for a no-agreement exit-deal !

I agree. All they can think of is to try and 'punish' the UK for daring to leave this white elephant. They cherry pick and deliberately forget 2 world wars.

When is Europe going to pay Britain for protecting them since 1945, i.e. the cost of NATO, which many European Countries have not been paying their fair share of; America cottoned onto this a few years ago,

And when is Europe going to balance the books regarding the staggering cost borne by Britain to rebuild Europe after WW2 after Germany's world domination aspirations, assisted by you-know-who - the Vichy French and good old Italy?

We owe the EU nothing. the EU is a failing giant. It won't be long before Spain, Italy, Greece and France are clamoring for gigantic handouts to relieve their corrupt existences together with any number of piddling little money sucking other countries that can't wait to jump on to this disastrous bandwagon.

The British government needs to stamp all over these whining, repetitive and power hungry, non-elected, jumped up little ‘jobs worth’ autocrats, and just deliver the UK demands, accepting no nonsense from this dying and monstrous organisation.

Failure to agree and Britain should just kick their miserable European <deleted> back where they belong. There is no mention of a "divorce' settlement in the original agreement. If anyone feels there is - please spell it out to me, chapter and verse, year of publication, whether it was signed and agreed with the British government!

We should never have joined them. The massively wasteful butter, wine, beef, milk and other commodity mountains of the 60s and 70s were a stark warning for the future of this inept, autocratic, power grabbing and inefficient conglomeration!

[Bundooman]

20 hours ago, taff33 said:

Please,show us your books.

Agreed. the books that have never been reconciled - because of the corruption which is rampant in the EU - Makes Thailand look angelic!

[natway09]

Britain called for a vote believing Brexit would never happen & had absolutely no planning in place 

to even start any negotiations.

Britain is sending trade delegations all over the world trying to drum up business but when it comes to negotiations they do not even know from where they are negotiating from.

They really are putting the cart before the horse

[Retiredandhappyhere]

16 hours ago, chang50 said:

Brexit has been a total disaster for the UK economy and especially bad for expats as the pound goes down the toilet yet there are still plenty of them defending it.It defies all logic.

Yes, there are plenty of people about who think that it is all about money.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, nabbie said:

Does that make the sense UK pays the first installment to EU without knowing the finalised bill? Sorry, the answer is NO. Until all the finalised details must be agreed and completed first including trade, border, etc.... 

 

Sure , when you leave the bar, you always tell the bartender 

"I am leaving . but I am not paying my bill until we agree how much I can drink in the future, what the price will be, and what kind of booze would be available to me if I come back tomorrow. If I come back will I be able to sit at my favorite table? 

I am sure such conversation would go well with the  bouncer at the door.

 

 

[KunMatt]

 
Sure , when you leave the bar, you always tell the bartender 
"I am leaving . but I am not paying my bill until we agree how much I can drink in the future, what the price will be, and what kind of booze would be available to me if I come back tomorrow. If I come back will I be able to sit at my favorite table? 
I am sure such conversation would go well with the  bouncer at the door:laugh:.
 
 

But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.

To fit in with your analogy, it would be like going drinking in the same bar in Thailand everyday and spending a ton of money there every day. So the owner wants to renovate his bar based on your potential spending in his bar over the next decade. But at some point you tell him that you are leaving Thailand and going back to your home country and he hits you with a bill for what you would've spent in his bar over the next 10 years because he still wants to spend the money fixing up his bar.

Except instead of an itemised statement of what the bill is based on, it just says "100 billion Euros" on a scrap piece of paper.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, KunMatt said:

 

But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.

To fit in with your analogy, it would be like going drinking in the same bar in Thailand everyday and spending a ton of money there every day. So the owner wants to renovate his bar based on your potential spending in his bar over the next decade. But at some point you tell him that you are leaving Thailand and going back to your home country and he hits you with a bill for what you would've spent in his bar over the next 10 years because he still wants to spend the money fixing up his bar.

Except instead of an itemised statement of what the bill is based on, it just says "100 billion Euros" on a scrap piece of paper.

 

"But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.  "

But the EU disagrees.  

I have no privileged knowledge who is right or wrong, but  I am sure a bunch of forensic  accountants should be able to settle this easily .

 

   

[KunMatt]

"But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.  "

But the EU disagrees.  

I have no privileged knowledge who is right or wrong, but  I am sure a bunch of forensic  accountants should be able to settle this easily .

 

   

 

And we would LOVE for an accountant to go through the EU's accounts and tell us what we owe them or vice versa.

 

And the EU isn't saying we owe the money for any missed or past payments or projects. They are saying we owe them all the future payments and projects that will continue after we leave the EU.

 

We have paid everything we needed to and more up until now.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.  "

But the EU disagrees.  

I have no privileged knowledge who is right or wrong, but  I am sure a bunch of forensic  accountants should be able to settle this easily .

 

   

Is it not more akin to going to the bar with your mates, ordering a big round of drinks but then deciding to leave before the bartender has served them? The drinks are being poured based on the order placed - it stands to reason that you need to pay for that which you committed to previously.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

And we would LOVE for an accountant to go through the EU's accounts and tell us what we owe them or vice versa.

 

And the EU isn't saying we owe the money for any missed or past payments or projects. They are saying we owe them all the future payments and projects that will continue after we leave the EU.

 

We have paid everything we needed to and more up until now.

as RuamRudy said in the above reply .

Just because you decided to leave it does not release you from agreements you have already entered in. 

Drink the drinks you ordered , or not drink them , up to you.

But you still need to pay for them

[KunMatt]

Is it not more akin to going to the bar with your mates, ordering a big round of drinks but then deciding to leave before the bartender has served them? The drinks are being poured based on the order placed - it stands to reason that you need to pay for that which you committed to previously.

No, it would be like if 28 of you went out for a night on the town but then you changed your mind about going and the other 27 people sent you a bill for 100 billion Euros.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

No, it would be like if 28 of you went out for a night on the town but then you changed your mind about going and the other 27 people sent you a bill for 100 billion Euros.

 

yea because the other 27 agreed to go out based on your promise to go with them and share the cost, now you changed your mind and stuck them with the whole bill .

[KunMatt]

yea because the other 27 agreed to go out based on your promise to go with them and share the cost, now you changed your mind and stuck them with the whole bill .

You realise I was being facetious, right? I actually quite liked the other guy's analogy.

Do you know where they got this nice round 100 billion Euros figure from? Apparently our net contribution to the EU every year is only £9 billion and obviously nowhere near 100% of that was going to fund the EU projects.

So how did they come up with this figure?

It's simply asking for as much as they possible can to continue funding all of the other net recipients of the EU money once the UK leaves.

Either they provide us with a documented reasonable bill or we pay nothing at all.