It's a wait and see game - smokers and drinkers will discover tax fate on Saturday

[webfact]

 

It's a wait and see game - smokers and drinkers will discover tax fate on Saturday

 

File photo

 

BANGKOK: -- The new tax rates for cigarettes and alcoholic drinks come into effect tomorrow but for smokers and drinkers it is a waiting game to find out how much their habit is really going to increase.

 

Some are suggesting that the price of smoking and drinking will almost double while those who like wine may have to switch to something else they can afford.

 

Government spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnert was tight lipped about what it would all mean, according to a report on Sanook.

 

It was unclear whether he actually knew or wouldn't say. The tax hike has been universally criticized as confusing for the public. Many have said the whole issue has been badly handled.

 

A graphic poster issued by Thansettakij will concern smokers and drinkers.

 

The poster indicated that the tax on cigarettes would increase from 3 baht for each cigarette to 5 baht.

 

That would put 40 baht on a packet of 20.

 

The tax on spirits is set to increase from 160 baht a bottle to 312.

 

Beer taxes could rise from 41 baht to 78 baht.

 

But wine - according to the poster at least - was set to be hit hardest. From a tax of 225 the new rate was now set to be 1,400 baht.

 

That clearly would obliterate the wine trade but, again, no explanation was forthcoming - the public would just have to wait and see what the reality is tomorrow.

 

Sanook said that the fundamental reasoning behind the new measures was to raise the health of the Thai people.

 

Source: Sanook

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-09-15

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[Dmaxdan]

8 minutes ago, webfact said:

Sanook said that the fundamental reasoning behind the new measures was to raise the health of the Thai people.

I always thought that a glass of red wine a day was supposed to be healthy

[darksidedog]

Potentially astronomical price increases, but I guess they have got to find the money to pay for the Submarines somehow!

[robblok]

It would chase all the alcohol lovers here in Thailand away. Would be bad for tourism for sure. I won't be hit as I neither smoke nor drink (ok drink once in a month or less). 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, darksidedog said:

Potentially astronomical price increases, but I guess they have got to find the money to pay for the Submarines somehow!

Yes this is clearly done because of the subs well seen, can't be because of the massive debt of the rice program.. can't be because the health program is costing more and more.. can't be because Thailand has a small tax base.... must be the subs. Well spotted. 

[fforest1]

 Go and stock up today on cigs and alcohol.... 

[SABloke]

They must think I love wine a lot more than I do. I spend 1,000 Baht a week on wine from the supermarket. They got some tax on that. If these figures are correct I can confidently say that from next week I will spend 0 Baht on wine. They will get nothing. Good plan - all for the 'health' of the Thai people.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, SABloke said:

They must think I love wine a lot more than I do. I spend 1,000 Baht a week on wine from the supermarket. They got some tax on that. If these figures are correct I can confidently say that from next week I will spend 0 Baht on wine. They will get nothing. Good plan - all for the 'health' of the Thai people.

Yea if you tax things too much people will stop using them in the end and they will get less taxes

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

 

[madmitch]

Different sources are coming up with different prognostications. I don't even think a Thai fortune teller would be able to say what will happen tomorrow. 

 

An excessive increase will almost certainly affect what remains of the Western tourist industry.

[fforest1]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Yea if you tax things too much people will stop using them in the end and they will get less taxes

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

 

Well if they get less tax money they will have to raise the tax even more to make up the difference...Which will cause tax money to go down even more so they will have to...you know the rest....

[robblok]

Just now, madmitch said:

Different sources are coming up with different prognostications. I don't even think a Thai fortune teller would be able to say what will happen tomorrow. 

 

An excessive increase will almost certainly affect what remains of the Western tourist industry.

Yes it would, but excessive tax will backfire and result in lower tax income. I am not sure how stupid they are here but there must be some people who have heard of price elasticity of demand and studied commerce. So I would hope they are not going to shoot themselves in their foot. 

[robblok]

Just now, fforest1 said:

Well if they get less tax money they will have to raise the tax even more to make up the difference...Which will cause tax money to go down even more so they will have to...you know the rest....

 

That would be the case if they are really stupid, we might want to think they are all stupid but I don't believe that. I believe there are quite a few real smart Thai people far smarter then those on the forum. Not all those in goverment are stupid (there certainly are a few). But even they get the hint that if taxes decrease after an increase not to increase again.

[madmitch]

Just now, robblok said:

Yes it would, but excessive tax will backfire and result in lower tax income. I am not sure how stupid they are here but there must be some people who have heard of price elasticity of demand and studied commerce. So I would hope they are not going to shoot themselves in their foot. 

But they're not doing it for extra income, they are doing this "to raise the health of the Thai people"!

[robblok]

Just now, madmitch said:

But they're not doing it for extra income, they are doing this "to raise the health of the Thai people"!

Yea sure, that is the standard excuse. 

[AGareth2]

this will drive the poor to smoke less healthy cigarettes

and drink less healthy alcohol

can't see the poor quitting

[SABloke]

Just now, madmitch said:

Different sources are coming up with different prognostications. I don't even think a Thai fortune teller would be able to say what will happen tomorrow. 

 

An excessive increase will almost certainly affect what remains of the Western tourist industry.

Well I suppose hotels will have to sell wine at cost price if they want to keep their guest happy. Right now a glass of bottom of the barrel wine costs about 150 - 400 Baht. If these figures are accurate and they want to keep a markup they would need to charge around 900 Baht. Who is going to pay $30 for a glass of crap wine?

[darksidedog]

If the numbers quoted are correct, I suspect anyone in the wine business will be quietly shitting themselves right now, as their business is about to come to an abrupt halt. The suggested rises would cause pain for most of us farang, who generally have a larger disposable income than the locals, for whom this will be a real hard hit.

[steelepulse]

Does this include the cheap and lethal made in Thailand lao kao etc. ?

[Thian]

Yes go on, kill the tourism-sector so the baht will drop and cigarettes/booze are cheaper for us farang again .

[NCC1701A]

" But wine - according to the poster at least - was set to be hit hardest. From a tax of 225 the new rate was now set to be 1,400 baht."

 

Morons. This can't be possible, or if it is, there will be a huge backlash from hotel and restaurant associations. 

 

 

 

[Denim]

.........raise the health of the Thai people.

 

Who are about to start experimenting with glue sniffing in droves.

[rkidlad]

When you tax too much on products people want (and boy do people want alcohol and smokes) you just create black markets. This could backfire massively if the tax is too much. Could backfire so quickly that we have something similar to the recent labour law changes where they're stumbling and stuttering literally hours after the law change. 

 

Wine is already way overpriced. This could destroy the wine market which is mostly wine from abroad. If they do, I hope foreign governments reciprocate with Thai products that are exported. Only fair. 

 

If people really believe that this money is to make up from the loses of the rice scheme, there's a simple solution - don't buy submarines. 

[mikebell]

18 minutes ago, madmitch said:

But they're not doing it for extra income, they are doing this "to raise the health of the Thai people"!

Meanwhile duty on Lao Kao, the white spirit that blinds and then rots the liver, will remain unchanged.

[55Jay]

The junta must be feeling rather secure in their plush leather chairs.

 

[SABloke]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

" But wine - according to the poster at least - was set to be hit hardest. From a tax of 225 the new rate was now set to be 1,400 baht."

 

Morons. This can't be possible, or if it is, there will be a huge backlash from hotel and restaurant associations. 

 

 

 

It seems that something was lost in translation (I hope). This page makes more sense - the calculations at the end show a doubling of the retail price of a bottle of wine. Still a shit load, but not 8 times at least.

 

http://www.pricesanond.com/knowledge/taxation/new-excise-tax.php

[PREM-R]

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes it would, but excessive tax will backfire and result in lower tax income. I am not sure how stupid they are here but there must be some people who have heard of price elasticity of demand and studied commerce. So I would hope they are not going to shoot themselves in their foot. 

These price increases will, no doubt, have been worked out by accountants,  As  I am sure you will know Robbie Block, accountants know the cost of everything.... and the value of nothing.

[rkidlad]

55 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes this is clearly done because of the subs well seen, can't be because of the massive debt of the rice program

I'm no business expert, but my advice to any government who are trying to make up loses or get back lost taxes - don't buy submarines!

 

It's like me being ripped off and losing loads of money. While I go after the person who wronged me to get some money back, I also make plans to buy diamond encrusted shoes. 

 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

I'm no business expert, but my advice to any government who are trying to make up loses or get back lost taxes - don't buy submarines!

 

It's like me being ripped off and losing loads of money. While I go after the person who wronged me to get some money back, I also make plans to buy diamond encrusted shoes. 

 

 

Never said the subs were a good Idea I am against them, but the put the blame of this tax increase on the subs is crazy. They are peanuts compared to the losses fromt he rice program and the extra cost the health program has. Thailand has a small tax base.. and too many costs (should cut military spending for sure). 

[SABloke]

http://www.pricesanond.com/knowledge/taxation/new-excise-tax.php

 

"The recommended retail price calculated on the basis of these items cannot be lower than the final retail price offered to end-users in normal market conditions (exclusive of VAT)."

 

So a retailer cannot charge more than the RRP for any reason. (Good thing? Or just more controls.)

 

"If, however, their suggested prices are not in line with the market or they fail to notify the Excise Department of the recommended retail prices, the Excise Department will have the power to set the recommended retail price"

 

So the excise department can (read "will") decide the price, which kind of negates the whole "Recommended" part of RRP.