Sharp tax hike on alcohol and tobacco effective immediately

[JRUSA]

13 hours ago, AloisAmrein said:

Does Prayuth turn Thailand in an Islamic country? Or the government just wants to fill his pockets? Price of beer is worst in Malaysia, up to 14 Ringit for a 0.5 liter can in a bottle shop, in restaurants more expensive. Second is Indonesia, a large bottle of Bitang is often more expensive then the whole meal. The beer in the Philippines is not drinkable, you better drink mineral water.

 

In most countries of Europe beer has about the same  price like mineral water.

Sorry but San Miguel in Manila tasted as good as San Miguel here..your generalized comments are uneducated drival... I lived in Vietnam also..bar beer was not 10 baht.. Tiger for example was about 85 to 100 baht

[HooHaa]

7 minutes ago, JRUSA said:

Sorry but San Miguel in Manila tasted as good as San Miguel here..your generalized comments are uneducated drival... I lived in Vietnam also..bar beer was not 10 baht.. Tiger for example was about 85 to 100 baht

while I agree with you san miguel is a decent beer, and when in manila, which is often these days i quite enjoy it, i would suggest that if you are going to accuse somone of spouting "uneducated drival" (sic), you should learn to spell drivel correctly.

[JRUSA]

2 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

while I agree with you san miguel is a decent beer, and when in manila, which is often these days i quite enjoy it, i would suggest that if you are going to accuse somone of spouting "uneducated drival" (sic), you should learn to spell drivel correctly.

I'll advise my keyboard and disabled hands..

Thanks..

[HHTel]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

The correct interpretation of them, but perhaps that will be an impossibility given the fact that laws and suchlike here are often open to the interpretation of those who wish to use them to their advantage, or are put together by those folks with the mental capacity of a gnat.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30326861

 

The above link has already been posted and quotes Director General of Excise Department:  Seems pretty official to me!

 

There are other publications that repeat those prices and name their source as The Excise Department.

 

These are the tax figures.  How they are moved through to the retailers is down to the retailers.  They will vary between retailers depending on what the market will take.

Edited September 18, 2017 by HHTel
Addition

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, HHTel said:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30326861

 

The above link has already been posted and quotes Director General of Excise Department:  Seems pretty official to me!

 

There are other publications that repeat those prices and name their source as The Excise Department.

 

These are the tax figures.  How they are moved through to the retailers is down to the retailers.  They will vary between retailers depending on what the market will take.

We shall know when we see...........still doesn't change my opinion: "The correct interpretation of them, but perhaps that will be an impossibility given the fact that laws and suchlike here are often open to the interpretation of those who wish to use them to their advantage, or are put together by those folks with the mental capacity of a gnat.

[rott]

19 minutes ago, JRUSA said:

Sorry but San Miguel in Manila tasted as good as San Miguel here..your generalized comments are uneducated drival... I lived in Vietnam also..bar beer was not 10 baht.. Tiger for example was about 85 to 100 baht

Tiger is not a Vietnamese beer, so a bit of a pomtless comparison. Be about 6 or 7 years since I was there and there were at least 6 different local beers, some very cheap some not so but all drinkable. The north is supposedto have betterprices and choice.

[HHTel]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

We shall know when we see...........still doesn't change my opinion: "The correct interpretation of them, but perhaps that will be an impossibility given the fact that laws and suchlike here are often open to the interpretation of those who wish to use them to their advantage, or are put together by those folks with the mental capacity of a gnat.

Okay.    Tax will be levied accordingly based on manufacturers recommended retail.  That needs no interpretation.  Retailers on the other hand will charge whatever they can get away with.  There are no rules governing the prices they can sell at.

I'll leave it at that.

[Media1]

10 hours ago, anto said:

I only buy the 4 or 5 lt box of Wine here .Which i could get for just under B1000  . I guess that will be slapped with the B110 increase ?

The people not need to pay for pensions. This is a tourist Capitol that makes billions under the right government.  Which I think is the problem here. A blind dog could manage this absolute money spinner of a country better than these old men. No previous CV to boot. Has proven to be a disaster that will keep sliding down hill.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Media1

[Joebuzz]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:46 PM, maeab101 said:

This is good news for Thailand.

Better news for all Thailand's neighbors that actually WANT expat spending.

[Joebuzz]

On 9/16/2017 at 12:13 AM, maeab101 said:

Maybe this will help some people to stop drinking.

.......in Thailand!

[Joebuzz]

On 9/16/2017 at 1:35 AM, champers said:

So, quite a bit less than you would pay in the UK. Would you have a girlfriend in the UK as good as your Thai GF? (pick your own criteria).

Which one...the liar, the cheat, the backstabber or the thief?

[Dumbastheycome]

Why  do  so  many  quote  Bar  prices  for  beer  etc? That is  almost always  disproportionate  to   normal  retail prices in  Thailand.

Try  Bali  Indonesia for  even  the retail  extortion  of  imported alcohol !

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Dumbastheycome
addition word

[naboo]

Big C today selling old stock at old prices, limiting sales per customer, two staff were at the shelf telling me how many bottles of each I could buy and someone was at the checkout checking I wasn't over the limit.

[The manic]

2 hours ago, Joebuzz said:

Which one...the liar, the cheat, the backstabber or the thief?

Are these insults aimed at Thai or Western Women? Either way you seem to have been very unlucky with your choice of female companions!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I checked online again today a list of beers I have been following at Tops, Tesco and Villa markets.

 

As of tonight, still no price changes at any of those supermarkets.

[rott]

8 hours ago, JohnLick said:

Businesses work on minimum target margin, not absolute numbers

 

Price before 500, margin 30% = final price 650

Increase of 100 to 600 =/ final price 750 but 600 *1.3 = 780

 

Since they like to use round numbers this usually translates to 800

 

What something should be and what people make of it are two different things

Minimum target margin not absolute numbers.

 

 

What kind of talk is this?? Never heard the like.

 

But I do know the difference between a mark-up and a margin.

[mommysboy]

Standard ploy used by the UK Government amongst others- leak a high figure and them impose the lower figure that was planned all along. People effected breathe a sigh of relief, and feel vindicated or that they have got off lightly.

 

Only the Thais could overplay the hand and create such a fiasco.

[TheLobster]

6 hours ago, Joebuzz said:

On 9/16/2017 at 12:35 PM, champers said:

Would you have a girlfriend in the UK as good as your Thai GF? (pick your own criteria).

Which one...the liar, the cheat, the backstabber or the thief?

Are we talking UK or Thai here?

[SunsetT]

On 17/09/2017 at 12:04 PM, xylophone said:

I think you will find that they import the grape juice then add "fruit juice/whatever" here then ferment it........thereby the wine is "produced" in Thailand (Mont Clair, Mar Y Sol, Finca de Malpica etc)........that's why it is so cheap, and will probably get even cheaper now?

Mont Clair is palatable........just about!

[anto]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Standard ploy used by the UK Government amongst others- leak a high figure and them impose the lower figure that was planned all along. People effected breathe a sigh of relief, and feel vindicated or that they have got off lightly.

 

Only the Thais could overplay the hand and create such a fiasco.

Yep ,Rep.of Ireland similar .

[Pib]

Probably need to give stores a week or two to sell current stock and they have to replace with new stock under the new excise tax rates to see what the new & improved prices will be.

 

All so the govt can improve everyone's health.  Or, to tell the truth (which governments many times have a hard time doing), just to increase tax revenue while saying it's to improve health.

[LatPhrao]

On 9/18/2017 at 7:37 AM, anto said:

I only buy the 4 or 5 lt box of Wine here .Which i could get for just under B1000  . I guess that will be slapped with the B110 increase ?

It's hard to know the answer on the larger volume sizes.  Logically the price increases are based on a per liter volume and wouldn't get an increase.  I would be surprised if they flipped bag in box wines into the over 1000 baht category.

It will also depend on whether it's concentrate fermented here or bulk  wine imported and bottled here for the bag in the box wines.  If it's made from concentrate and fermented here they may get a local tax level, like the Thai wineries. 

Today, in a new market just opening up I checked my two benchmark wine prices - Mar y Sol (wines finished and bottled here in Thailand and Bellville wine imported in bulk to Vietnam - finished and then exported to Thailand).  The Mar y Sol price had dropped from 299 to 279 baht per bottle of 750 ml.  The Belleville still at the pre-tax increase/decrease is still at 295 per bottle.  Maybe the Belleville is old stock and not changed yet.

[LatPhrao]

On 9/18/2017 at 9:34 AM, xylophone said:

You make a fair point and probably why Mont Clair was originally advertised'/touted as a wine from South Africa, but that angle of advertising seems to have dropped off now,

 

I believe the Siam Winery angle is that they import the "raw material" (grape juice) add to it (Hibiscus fruit in the case of the red), ferment it and bottle it here, so call it locally produced wine.

 

Much the same as a country importing something like cotton, then producing shirts as the finished article and stating that they were made in that country? (best analogy I could think of).

 

However rest assured that Siam Winery wants the best of both worlds.......promoting a "wine" from another country, but wanting the tax breaks applicable to a locally produced wine, which to all intents and purposes it is??

Interesting, I hadn't followed Montclair.  They may of started out Montclair as imported bulk wine and converted to importing grape juice concentrate, then making the leap to 'it's "made" in Thailand. 

Regards Siam Winery's wines, did you actually see them in print saying they added Hibiscus fruit to red wine?  If so, like I said, winemaker at the top of the wine tank with an eyedropper. I've seen many Hibiscus, never a fruit.    Have never been able to find any indication on the labels of fruit wine category wines of the volume added. I'm sure that's because it's none.

In the wine industry world wide it's not allowed to claim wine made from juice or concentrate as the country of import.  If it's Chilean grape juice concentrate it isn't Thailand  juice, but again elsewhere in the world it would be labelled 'fermented and bottled', but not 'produced and bottled'.    Here and especially an outfit like Siam Winery, they feel free to blur the lines and agreed Siam Winery is milking the tax advantage wherever possible.  I suspect the lot of these big Thai companies created the phony 'fruit wine' category at 84 baht tax per bottle and got the government to go along with it.  And the Thailand wine distributors.

It was of interest in the B Post article that the 'sin tax' commission seemed to be reacting to world trade norms and trade regulations and trying to not get Thailand caught out on crossing the line on same when making up some of these new laws.

[Dumbastheycome]

As  far  as   I  am  aware the  international  definition  of   wine  is  the  product of  the  direct fermentation  of  fresh  fruit,  usually  considered  to  be  grapes. 

By  that  definition  fermented  products  created   from  concentrated juices  that  have  been  reconstituted by  the  addition  of   water  are   not  true   wines.

[B4Jazz]

On 18/09/2017 at 11:02 AM, JRUSA said:

Sorry but San Miguel in Manila tasted as good as San Miguel here..your generalized comments are uneducated drival... I lived in Vietnam also..bar beer was not 10 baht.. Tiger for example was about 85 to 100 baht

San Miguel nickname diesel, I can see why, it's quite cheap in the Philippines, but rum is dirt cheap there. Bia Hoi is about 8 baht a glass, 30ml? Yes bottled beer is more expensive, I think Bia Hoi is better than many Asian beers, some dismiss it because it's cheap, it's based on Czech lager, I prefer the hoppy taste to the sweeter bland lagers. Haiphong brewery is a good place to drink it.

[Techno Viking]

2 hours ago, B4Jazz said:

San Miguel nickname diesel, I can see why, it's quite cheap in the Philippines, but rum is dirt cheap there. Bia Hoi is about 8 baht a glass, 30ml? Yes bottled beer is more expensive, I think Bia Hoi is better than many Asian beers, some dismiss it because it's cheap, it's based on Czech lager, I prefer the hoppy taste to the sweeter bland lagers. Haiphong brewery is a good place to drink it.

8 baht for a 30ml glass of beer does not sound at all cheep.

[naboo]

My local Tesco Lotus, new prices. Chang no change, Leo up 2B (large bottles).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, naboo said:

My local Tesco Lotus, new prices. Chang no change, Leo up 2B (large bottles).

 

I checked the online sites for Villa, Tops and Tesco again this morning for the saved lists of beers I have at each site, and still found no price changes whatsoever, either for local or imported beers.

 

Oddly, the one change I did see today was Tops suddenly was selling cans of Oettinger non-alcoholic beer for 89b, and they'd long been pricing them at 119b per can. And the current price at least on their website wasn't listed as any kind of special sale or promotion.

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, LatPhrao said:

Regards Siam Winery's wines, did you actually see them in print saying they added Hibiscus fruit to red wine?  

There were a couple of articles written on the subject when Montclair first hit the market and links to those are available in the Montclair wine thread. It stated categorically, from inside info by the looks of things, that the Roselle fruit (Hibiscus) was added to the wine and this particular "fruit" is well known as a colouring for drinks as well as being healthy!

 

What has never been clearly explained or discovered is exactly what is imported, whether it be bulk wine or grape juice. However trying to follow some sort of logic, it would be easier and cheaper to import grape juice and then add the fruit content to it in Thailand and ferment it here. Whereas importing bulk wine means that the addition of fruit juice could be quite problematic because the product is already fermented and finished – – so bulk grape juice would appear to be the cheapest and easiest route. However due to the secrecy surrounding the company and the product, perhaps we will never know.

 

I did notice on a box of Mar Y Sol that it described the contents as "a Chilean red wine" so it does pay homage to the origin of the product! Also on the back of all of the Montclair products you will notice the words "Fruit Wine" and if I recall correctly by international law those words have to be added to any wine which has an addition of 20% of fruit juice, however I find it extremely difficult to think that they would add 20% Roselle juice to this mix??

 

Maybe as you allude to, this is just a ruse to get round the taxes and duty payable, however they may have been "hoist by their own petard" by adding something to the wine to get round the taxes, but found that they have to disclose it!

 

There are many links and articles on this whole subject on the Montclair thread and it may be worth you spending some time scouting through it – – there is a lot of it, so happy reading.

 

 

Roselle (hibiscus)

 

Hibiscus or Roselle juice in Thai is…….กระเจี๊ยบแดง krajiab daeng, The red calyces of the plant are increasingly exported to the United States and Europe, particularly Germany, where they are used as food colourings.

 

Red roselle calyx has been reported to be rich in anthocyanins and it contains a mixture of organic acids such as citric, malic and tartaric acids18,25. Karppa et al.14 reported that anthocyanins vary in colour from pink to blue and violet. These characteristics suggest that roselle calyx extract may be a suitable raw material for the production of coloured wines. The objective of this study was to evaluate the quality attributes of wine produced from roselle calyx extract.

 

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

As  far  as   I  am  aware the  international  definition  of   wine  is  the  product of  the  direct fermentation  of  fresh  fruit,  usually  considered  to  be  grapes. 

By  that  definition  fermented  products  created   from  concentrated juices  that  have  been  reconstituted by  the  addition  of   water  are   not  true   wines.

A product labelled "wine" has to be from the fermented juice of grapes, I can't see anywhere where it states that it has to be "direct fermentation of fresh fruit". However if you have some info in this, I'm always keen to learn, so please post.

 

Interesting point you make with regard to reconstituted grape juice however I think that the finished product is still regarded as wine?

 

It does become confusing as you can see by the text below because different countries apply different standards/interpretations, however there is a general nature running through them and that is that any wine which is produced from anything other than grapes has to be labelled as such, see examples below.

 

Within the European Union, the term "wine" in English and in translation is reserved exclusively for the fermented juice of grapes.^[4]

Within the United States, wine may include the fermented juice of any fruit^[5] or agricultural product, provided that it is between 7% and 24%alcohol by volume and intended for non-industrial use.^[6] With the exceptions of cider, perry, and sake, such non-grape wines are to label themselves by the word "wine" qualified by a truthful description of the originating product: "honey wine", "dandelion wine", (blended) "fruit wine", etc.^[7]

Other jurisdictions have similar rules dictating the range of products qualifying as "wine".^[8]