SURVEY: Should children brought to a country as a child be allowed to remain?

[Scott]

The recent repeal of DACA (Deferred Action on Childhood Arrivals) raises some interesting questions, not only for the US, but also other countries.   In your opinion, do you believe that children who arrived illegally in a country and have spent most of their formative years in that country should be allowed to remain provided they are  in school, working or an asset to the community?

 

For the purpose of the poll, the person should now be an adult and not in a situation where they would be removed with the remainder of the family.  

[anon467367354]

maybe rephrase the vote to should there be incentives for illegally immigrating.

[riclag]

The key word is illegal. Does two wrongs make a one right.If they are contributing to society then this must be a consideration.If they are babies now send them back to the nearest kin. If there is nobody back in there country send them back to that countries child services.

[alex8912]

Who the hell decides if someone is an asset to a community?  What type of work? I can think of many "jobs" that they may have that are , well let's just say no good. School?  Hmm. No comment.   Illegal? What does it mean? If it's illegal then that is it. 

[riclag]

4 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Who the hell decides if someone is an asset to a community?  What type of work? I can think of many "jobs" that they may have that are , well let's just say no good. School?  Hmm. No comment.   Illegal? What does it mean? If it's illegal then that is it. 

 Webster  short "not according to or authorized by law :unlawful, illicit; also :not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)"

[wombat]

i don't see how your question works................

the child growing up must have needed id at some stage? 

[halloween]

What do loopholes in the law do except encourage more law breaking?

[Bullie]

In the Netherlands illegal aliens tend to drag out their case for staying through the courts for years, invariably ending up with a few children, born and raised in the Netherlands. They then try to plead for clemency for their family on behalf of their poor children, who " would be strangers"  in their proper home country.

This inevitably leads to many Dutch people being upset that such a wonderful family would be deported, with an unknown future ahead of them.

 

My take on this is: illegal is illegal, they and their parents took their chance and lost. Life can be a gamble. Get over it. Be happy for the free education you got thus far. Make something of yourselves in your home country with the advantages you have gained already.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, gr8fldanielle said:

maybe rephrase the vote to should there be incentives for illegally immigrating.

 

Maybe rephrase the poll as to whether the question is pertinent to all countries or just USA. The heading and the following details are ambiguous on this point.

 

The USA is a nation of immigrants which has for it's whole history encouraged more immigrants both legal and illegal (illegal in this scenario not inferring having broken laws in regard to theft, violence, etc.), and for decades given the illegal (meaning illegal but welcomed) immigrants numerous benefits (the typical general benefits of a civil society). 

 

Further, I wonder how many of these immigrants worked hard on the numerous DT projects and helped him make  money but in fact were never paid for their hard labor? 

 

My comment above is mainly to reinforce that this subject (like many subjects) IMHO involves many factors / items of background which are different to quite different in every country, therefore meaning there is no easy YES or NO answer.

 

Also, what's this got to do with Thailand news? 

Edited September 17, 2017 by scorecard

[chainarong]

If they know nothing else like the Dreamers in the US, what do you do , the point being officialdom should have acted when they arrived not twenty years later........................ 

[AgMech Cowboy]

"The recent repeal of DACA (Deferred Action on Childhood Arrivals) raises some interesting questions, not only for the US, but also other countries."

 

Get it straight, Scott, DACA was never a law, so it was not 'repealed'. Obama choose to not enforce the law and issued an executive order. Trump is pushing Congress to make a permanent decision on how best manage the people brought to the USA who can not produce documents that give them the right to be there.

 

Yes, I think when a person is brought up in a Country, from an early age, and that's all that person has known and that person has pledged allegiance to the Country since that person was a child, then Congress should figure out someway to make that person legal.

[ramrod711]

1 hour ago, chainarong said:

If they know nothing else like the Dreamers in the US, what do you do , the point being officialdom should have acted when they arrived not twenty years later........................ 

I think it depends on availability of citizenship. If there is a path forward, fine. If they are going to remain illegal for their entire lives, forget it.

[dksharron]

No, silly question.  Their parents who brought them, and they as well, should all be deported.

 

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, Bullie said:

In the Netherlands illegal aliens tend to drag out their case for staying through the courts for years, invariably ending up with a few children, born and raised in the Netherlands. They then try to plead for clemency for their family on behalf of their poor children, who " would be strangers"  in their proper home country.

This inevitably leads to many Dutch people being upset that such a wonderful family would be deported, with an unknown future ahead of them.

 

My take on this is: illegal is illegal, they and their parents took their chance and lost. Life can be a gamble. Get over it. Be happy for the free education you got thus far. Make something of yourselves in your home country with the advantages you have gained already.

 

Maybe I've been wrong all these years but I always thought children were the responsibility of the parents and not pawns to be used in the parents games with society.

If the children are in some sort of danger from the parents then they should be looked after by the authorities, obviously.

I can't post my true feelings on illegal immigrants as doing so would result in me getting a very long posting holiday.

[ThaiWai]

There are too many people applying through the correct channels to be ignored. People that illegally cut the queue deserve nothing. Rules are rules. We live in a world that has borders for good or bad. It is unfortunate that some were born in less fortunate circumstances but no one country can absorb the fleeing masses of all the others combined. 

[AsianAtHeart]

Imagine a world without borders.  Someday, ...

[tryasimight]

26 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Imagine a world without borders.  Someday, ...

One big,happy Caliphate?

[jvs]

Does this mean anything?

 

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[tryasimight]

It will be interesting to hold a similar survey in 20 years when the Chinese who are US citizens by birth (after living in US for one month after they were born while Mum was on a tourist visa and then return to China) decide to return and the bring over their aging family members.

They were born there but never actually spent any significant amount of time there - are they really US citizens?

 

Apparently this go-to-the-US-and-have-a-baby thing is very popular.

[tryasimight]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

Does this mean anything?

 

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Probably does to someone!

 

And if that is what is written on the statue of liberty I can now understand why the USA is such a mess.

[realenglish1]

In the end Daca Kids will be allowed to stay in the USA Republicans and Democrats will reach a deal Why ? because its good for everyone 

 

 

[ldiablo72]

No

[ELVIS123456]

7 hours ago, Bullie said:

In the Netherlands illegal aliens tend to drag out their case for staying through the courts for years, invariably ending up with a few children, born and raised in the Netherlands. They then try to plead for clemency for their family on behalf of their poor children, who " would be strangers"  in their proper home country.

This inevitably leads to many Dutch people being upset that such a wonderful family would be deported, with an unknown future ahead of them.

 

My take on this is: illegal is illegal, they and their parents took their chance and lost. Life can be a gamble. Get over it. Be happy for the free education you got thus far. Make something of yourselves in your home country with the advantages you have gained already.

 

You are dead right and what you says make a lot of common sense. It astounds me that there are more voters for allowing them to stay - interesting demographics on TV forums - where is the right (correct) one where those with common sense can go?

 

Austrian Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka is resisting EU efforts to increase his country’s migrant quota, claiming that 90 per cent of asylum seekers in Austria end up on welfare benefits and strain the system.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/09/16/90-per-cent-asylum-seekers-austria-end-welfare/

 

[sirineou]

Both the Thief and the receiver of stolen property are equally coupable 

In essence the thief is the buyer's of stolen goods agent.

to punish one and not the other is an injustice

For years with a wink a nod we allowed this people here illegally so that we can be the beneficiaries of their illegal activity. Now that we no longer desire their services we want to punish them without axcepting responsibility for our part in this affair.

    

   Their punishment , accept certain conditions for a path toward  citizenship with the associated hardships 

   Our punishment absorb  them into the general population with all the associated hardships

[halloween]

25 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

It will be interesting to hold a similar survey in 20 years when the Chinese who are US citizens by birth (after living in US for one month after they were born while Mum was on a tourist visa and then return to China) decide to return and the bring over their aging family members.

They were born there but never actually spent any significant amount of time there - are they really US citizens?

 

Apparently this go-to-the-US-and-have-a-baby thing is very popular.

In oz the rule is a child born there has citizenship rights of its parents. Illegals rush to have a child expecting the same as treatment as US, but no luck. Next trick is claiming life in internment camps is too harsh for children, so they want them fostered out. Guess what's next, poor little darlings know nothing of home country, how can you send them home?

[jak2002003]

No.

 

A child BORN in a county is a different matter.  But one brought over is still an illegal immigrant.  

 

I would say take away all the borders, check points, visas, etc and just let people go where they want.  If people don't like where they live then move someplace else.  However, human beings are mostly greedy and corrupt.. and also a very territorial species.  So this won't happen sadly.  

 

[realenglish1]

7 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

You are dead right and what you says make a lot of common sense. It astounds me that there are more voters for allowing them to stay - interesting demographics on TV forums - where is the right (correct) one where those with common sense can go?

 

Austrian Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka is resisting EU efforts to increase his country’s migrant quota, claiming that 90 per cent of asylum seekers in Austria end up on welfare benefits and strain the system.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/09/16/90-per-cent-asylum-seekers-austria-end-welfare/

 

I am a conservative however I totally disagree with you Lots of these kids do not even speak their native language and know only english and the way of like in the USA Basically they are American Kids It would be terrible to send them back afte some being here from near birth

Certainly as a nation of families we can make room for  800.000 people out of  340 million that are educated and contributing to American society

[ELVIS123456]

29 minutes ago, jvs said:

Does this mean anything?

 

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

"The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus wrote in 1883 to help pay for the Statue of Liberty.  In 1903, the poem was engraved on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level.  

 

Frenchman Edouard de Laboulaye first proposed the idea of a monument for the United States in 1865. Ten years later sculptor Frederic Auguste Bartholdi was commissioned to design a sculpture with 1876 in mind for completion, to commemorate the centennial of the American Declaration of Independence. The Statue was named “Liberty Enlightening the World” and was a joint effort between America and France.

https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/statue-history

 

There was no massive illegal immigrants then from Mexico or Muslim countries in the 1800s, and she was referring to the people from mainly European countries who applied legally to migrate to America. They came freely and did so with the intent of adopting the new society and the opportunities offered as their own - opportunities which were not available to most in the class structured society that was Europe at the time.  They came to Ellis island by boat legally!!

 

To claim it was meant as an open invitation to illegal immigrants from anywhere in the world is a load of rubbish and is nothing more than sanctimonious liberal rewriting of history to serve their narrative.  If they voted Republican Obama would never have made DACA, which was rejected by the Congress/Senate, and has been deemed to be illegal by many legal scholars.

 

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Imagine a world without borders.  Someday, ...

Yep, mayhem.

[ELVIS123456]

7 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

I am a conservative however I totally disagree with you Lots of these kids do not even speak their native language and know only english and the way of like in the USA Basically they are American Kids It would be terrible to send them back afte some being here from near birth

Certainly as a nation of families we can make room for  800.000 people out of  340 million that are educated and contributing to American society

I totally disagree with your solution to what was said at the time would happen.  However I do see the obvious problem, and that is why Trump has handed the can of worms back to Congress/Senate and given them 6 months to fix it.  

 

The reason for no is very clear - the law of unintended consequences from setting a precedent. If you allow people to break the law (illegally enter) and them give them citizenship/rights (and/or their children), how do you legally stop everyone else in the world doing the same in the future.  That is the dilemma that Trump has handed back to Congress/Senate.  How do you make such an exception without also making a precedent.