Prayut warns some areas must be sacrificed to floods

[Baerboxer]

Just now, robblok said:

How are the floods in your area now ? so far around here and other parts of BKK not much at all 2011 different story. I know some people near pattum thani also still not flooded while they were flooded in 2011. Seems to be either less than 2011 or different area's

 

But we did get compensation in 2011 (20.000 bt if i recall) 

 

Nothing like as bad as 2011. Nothing much really. Was over at Sam Khok couple of weeks ago. The old immigration building was flooded but surface water on the road outside was about 100 mm.And it was only the small area adjacent to the building affected. Much much worse in 2011.

 

People who got flooded here eventually got their compensation but had to agitate to speed it up.

[Eric Loh]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

@Eric Loh,

 

You said you were flooded in 2011... are you flooded now ? Do you think you will be flooded ?. So far it seems its either distributed different (more in the NE)  and / or the government did a good job by draining water from the dams before it became too bad. 

 

Still would be nice to see some new work being done. 

Rob, there were quite a lot of flood prevention works done in my place which is just off Klong Rangsit. Roads were elevated and more higher embankments. Recently with the heavy northern rain and runoff, Klong Rangsit was filled to the brim but did not spill over the roads due to the embankments. My mo baan still flood from heavy downpour like last few nights but not as bad as 2011. Remember I move and stay in Bangkok for 2 months and move my office temporarily to Bangna. The drainage though has not improve much and takes long time to drain water out. How’s yours.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Rob, there were quite a lot of flood prevention works done in my place which is just off Klong Rangsit. Roads were elevated and more higher embankments. Recently with the heavy northern rain and runoff, Klong Rangsit was filled to the brim but did not spill over the roads due to the embankments. My mo baan still flood from heavy downpour like last few nights but not as bad as 2011. Remember I move and stay in Bangkok for 2 months and move my office temporarily to Bangna. The drainage though has not improve much and takes long time to drain water out. How’s yours.

At my place a lot has been changed since 2011, seems they put in extra drainage and there is a big sluice build. I have been riding around to see the previous trouble spots and its still bone dry. The water catchment area in my village (in front of my home) is higher than normal but far from the levels of 2011.  I live quite a bit away from the river 11-15 km or so. In 2011 I was flooded because the water came overland like a blanket. 

 

Still every year i feel a bit nervous even though this village (besides 2011) has never been flooded. I am not sure what other work they have done around the area as I normally go toward BKK when I go somewhere not so much up country (where the improvements should be to help)

 

They did build a huge central (Central Westgate) near where I live so I guess they want to protect the area more now then before when there was less value. But now if it floods i can get to the BTS (also something new) to escape it. The closes BTS would still be a challenge given 2011 levels but doable. 

 

Your flooding does it enter your house or just the village (if the latter its annoying but not as bad). I like the Idea Prayut floated about a canal near Ayutaya to drain water faster. That would help those upstream (and downstream of course). Not sure if it will ever happen. Prayut seem to have cancelled YL her flood idea's (I think) and I fully expect the next government to cancel Prayut his idea's. They all want their cut from big projects like that best way to get their cut is to start over. Stuff like this should really be put in law for longer period 4 years (if a Thai government ever makes it) is far to short to implement things like this. Besides no goverment starts at year 1 with water management so the actual time is even shorter. 

 

Every year i read about about the same area's being flooded and I really wonder why they don't put up some permanent structures to combat it (certain bends in rivers in city centers was in an article) Don't they have the budget.. do they skim too much of the budget... I have no idea. 

[farcanell]

55 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

There's a huge difference in the economics of keeping water out of a city where the GDP per capita is 5 x as high as Bangkok. 

 

Which is also why bringing in Euro experts from the Netherlands may not be viable.

 

True true true.... from what I understand the army engineers look after the Mississippi, at a staggering cost

 

it comes down to infrastructure and maintenance thereof...  not something done well in this country

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, oldcarguy said:

Hire the Dutch if anyone can fix it , they can ,or tell  them the reality of we can fix this , but that will be lost etc But knowing the truth will make the leaders lose face when they do nothing about it

Not even the Dutch can keep water from wanting to flow downhill.

 

Once in awhile, some Thai engineer (is that an oxymoron?) suggests building a giant berm (6 meters high has been suggested) around Bkk.  However, when you wall things out, you also wall things in.  ....and there's a large river and tributaries. So they've also got to build walls all along the rivers, which they're already doing - except now the river walls are 2 meters high.  In future they'll have to be 4 meters, or......?

 

Here's an idea, that's only partly crazy:   excavate the terrain in rows, like a zebra's stripes.  There will be low areas and relatively high areas.  Build on the high areas, and let the low areas flood.  I suggest high areas be about 5 meters, with bridges between them, .....lots of bridges.  ...and lots of work for earth moving machinery.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

in 2011, one of the factories flooded was Oishi.  They make sugary 'tea' drinks.  Probably a smart move that their drinks are normally brownish.   .....considering the type of water they may have to be using to fill plastic bottles.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

Here's an idea, that's only partly crazy:   excavate the terrain in rows, like a zebra's stripes.  There will be low areas and relatively high areas.  Build on the high areas, and let the low areas flood. 

 

Not so crazy if you're creating a lot of high $$$ waterfront property...  A

 

Unfortunately, the poor will be booted and the Elite will end up owning all the good property.

 

[smutcakes]

35 minutes ago, robblok said:

How are the floods in your area now ? so far around here and other parts of BKK not much at all 2011 different story. I know some people near pattum thani also still not flooded while they were flooded in 2011. Seems to be either less than 2011 or different area's

 

But we did get compensation in 2011 (20.000 bt if i recall) 

Why should the tax payers pay compensation to you if you are stupid enough to live on a flood plain....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If some areas of Thailand have to be flooded in order to save other parts of the country, how about starting first with his house(s) and land(s)???

 

After all, there will be compensation paid once the waters finally recede from chest level...

[boomerangutang]

All this talk about tunnels, culverts, drainage, pumping, etc.  .....it's all moot.   The terrain for the middle part of Thailand (incl Bkk) is all flat.  FLAT FLAT FLAT.   That's why, when a Thai puts in a drainage pipe or culvert, it usually sits horizontal - because that's what they're used to dealing with.  Slopes aren't an issue.  It's also why culverts and canals are always stuffed with trash.

 

 

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Thian said:

Why so quiet now countryboys?? Come on, more Thai bashing because they led the flood-retention area's flood...or did you guys just learn a new word?

Your comments got me interested, so I googled flood retention.... and got (virtually) nowhere

 

apparently flood retention areas were a spin off of the 2011 floods, so discussing the plight of those effected... those farming these areas for generations (and I can’t find out where these areas actually are, in the main) is verging on being a mute point, as they have suddenly discovered ( if they are lucky) that there farms are now in a designated area

 

but... I am very willing to be educated, if you can find information that helps ( note... I’m not effected... just curious)

 

And, although I can’t upload items from screenshots (the Nation article of 2011), I did laugh at a ministers statement that....

 

1/ farmers can supplement farming with fish farming (? during flood years)

2/ areas would be drained within 21 days... ( sorry fishies, now your dead fishies)

3/ people can live on the higher roads during effected times

 

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Why should the tax payers pay compensation to you if you are stupid enough to live on a flood plain....

 

They probably paid because they kept the water at our area instead of letting it flow to other parts of BKK. 

 

But the 20 was of course nothing compared to the real damage. Still a nice incentive. The village I live in has never been flooded before and after 2011. It was one of the higher places. Its also far from any rivers only loads of rain combined with the incompetence of messing with the dams made it flood. I doubt we would have been flooded if they had not messed around with the dams. This year they released water before and guess what no flooding. 

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, Ossy said:

Please teacher . . . look up the difference between 'point of view' and 'claim'. I made no claims in my OP, merely points of view [...]

 

You used the word "fact" twice.

 

1 hour ago, Ossy said:

...based on recalled forum threads and Google research at the time of the BKK floods.

 

And this is exactly why.  Now we're all supposed to trust your recollection?  I don't intend to continue policing you.  Just be advised that, as Christopher Hitchens has famously said, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  If we continue down that path, it won't be long before we're just monkeys throwing our feces at each other.

[natway09]

Having read some replies here some informative, some funny & others just silly

his  reply is actually correct (not that anyone wishes to hear the truth)

Bangkok & surrounding areas up to Chainat are just a big flood plain  in some areas below sea level & many just above. There is no quick fix & although the authorities can pump 5 million m3 a minute, at high tide 

with a full moon there is nowhere to pump it too as it just comes back.

Monkey cheeks can help but it is not possible to build enough to control the massive amounts of rain 

that is poured on the foothills.

To let the water out of the dams in anticipation of heavy rains is also frought with danger for the authorities.

In the event we do not get a deluge,,,,,,,,  there is no water for the dry season, & then hear the yelling when your shower does not work. Dammed if they do,,, dammed if they don't

[attrayant]

1 minute ago, natway09 said:

Dammed if they do,,, dammed if they don't

 

Right.  It's almost like some sort of water management plan is needed.

[Thian]

I just drove through 20 cm of water in BKK, U-turns next to the river are also flooded and so are some low roads.

The chao praya is very high so the drains near the river don't work anymore and water is coming out of them.

[attrayant]

33 minutes ago, farcanell said:

apparently flood retention areas were a spin off of the 2011 floods, so discussing the plight of those effected... those farming these areas for generations (and I can’t find out where these areas actually are, in the main) is verging on being a mute point, as they have suddenly discovered ( if they are lucky) that there farms are now in a designated area

 

 

Yep: 

 

1. Identify flooded areas.

2. Draw lines around said areas, assign "flood retention area" status.

3. People who live in those areas?  Sucks to be you.

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Yep: 

 

1. Identify flooded areas.

2. Draw lines around said areas, assign "flood retention area" status.

3. People who live in those areas?  Sucks to be you.

Unless they get a good compensation... I for one feel they should be adequately compensated if they live in a flood retention area. That is far better as paying for some stupid rice program. 

[lvr181]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

My data fetish is because everyone can sprout B.S. and only facts back them up. I am real interested because I have been flooded in 2011. Around this time I was already flooded because of dam mismanagement. It seems they are doing it a lot better than in 2011 as none of the trouble spots in our area have been hit so far.

 

Also there have been numerous reports of them letting water out of the dams BEFORE these floodings now in hindsight that might have been not enough. But you have to understand that letting too much water out will cause floodings.  (the draining was already in full swing last month)

 

Also if you compare this year with 2011... you will see that the distribution of water is totally different, a lot fell in the NE and there are no dams there and little drainage. So changing weather patters had something to do with it too.

 

 

"... because of dam mismanagement."

 

I am thinking damn mismanagement would be more appropriate. 

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Yep: 

 

1. Identify flooded areas.

2. Draw lines around said areas, assign "flood retention area" status.

3. People who live in those areas?  Sucks to be you.

Unless they get a good compensation... I for one feel they should be adequately compensated if they live in a flood retention area. That is far better as paying for some stupid rice program. 

[Ossy]

46 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

You used the word "fact" twice.

 

 

And this is exactly why.  Now we're all supposed to trust your recollection?  I don't intend to continue policing you.  Just be advised that, as Christopher Hitchens has famously said, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  If we continue down that path, it won't be long before we're just monkeys throwing our feces at each other.

 

47 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

You used the word "fact" twice.

 

 

And this is exactly why.  Now we're all supposed to trust your recollection?  I don't intend to continue policing you.  Just be advised that, as Christopher Hitchens has famously said, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  If we continue down that path, it won't be long before we're just monkeys throwing our feces at each other.

It's not me who's throwing them, sunshine . . . got better things to do.

[attrayant]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

Unless they get a good compensation... I for one feel they should be adequately compensated if they live in a flood retention area. That is far better as paying for some stupid rice program. 

 

Flood retention areas could actually be part of a sound flood management program.  I'm all for letting the ecosystem do its own thing.  But people living there need to be relocated and the areas condemned for future habitability.

[farcanell]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Flood retention areas could actually be part of a sound flood management program.  I'm all for letting the ecosystem do its own thing.  But people living there need to be relocated and the areas condemned for future habitability.

Or as Thani pointed out in his definition at post 23... it (flood retention area) is an artificial lake, with vegetation around its edges, and includes a permanent body of water

 

if done correctly ( I know ), it could indeed become a “hub” ( again ) of aquaponic farming

[vagaboberalis]

I am a Water Engineer, retired.  Five years ago, I presented the various authorities with my Flood Prevention Design.

This, in a large part, was constructing a myriad of Retention Reservoirs through out the land, in particular where the rain falls which tends to be up country. This water would be stored and used for various purposes.

Its a bit like Songkran when all the cars go back home up country and are parked there then no 'flooding' of cars in Bangkok.  Besides preventing flooding, it would develop infrastructure and generate a multitude of jobs and income from stored resources. It seems the only part of my design used has been the word 'Retention' pertaining to the sacrificial flooded areas.

[silent]

4 hours ago, Ossy said:

I was about to give up on you, Robblok, after your offensive opening line, but then you mellowed and actually corroborated my fact-based contention that too little was done too late . . . thank you for that. Your next sentence brought both a smile and a frown to my face; a smile, at 'letting too much water out will cause floodings' . . . yes, I think most of us get that, and the frown, at 'the draining was already in full swing last month'. That's where we could come to blows, since my Oct 14 Googlings made it unquestionably clear that there had been no proper control over reservoir water releases, making it impossible to prevent the imminent filling of the res's, thus exacerbating the flooding by Chao Phraya and its tributaries, downstream of them. Are we getting nearer to consensus, here?

As for you last paragraph, besides the FACT that there wasn't a vast amount of rain in the NE region, prior to the late July floods, there are reservoirs and dams. The severe flooding, there, was similarly put down to lax reservoir management at Nam Un dam and 'clogged drainage' between the Nong Han lake and the Mekong, resulting in their being able to contain the sudden heavy deluge. My village, between Udon T and Sakon Nakhon, experienced the worst floods in living memory, thanks to Nam Un waters, whilst Sak-Nak was hit from all directions and flooded, literally within minutes of the deluge of Thu eve, 27 July; again, floods the like of wh hadn't been seen before.

(*) Another smile, here, with the mighty Mekong running along the entire eastern edge of Isan. 'Little drainage', eh . . . please don't wave the 'sprouting BS' stick at me, Robblok. I'd have said 'spouting' myself, but each to his own.

If Robblok isn't impressed, I am.

[wvavin]

Who sacrifices for who? The poor sacrifices for the rich?

[MaxLee]

In short, suck it up, suckers 

[laocowboy2]

8 hours ago, Thian said:

Which part of the word "flood-retention area" these people and some TV-posters don't understand??

 

And why does the government has to pay for damage when a flood-retention area gets flooded???

 

I mean......<deleted>??

Agree. People should be discouraged from building/living in designated flood plain areas. If they do build, then the units should be designed with expected floods in mind (e.g. with the living areas well off the ground floor and possible on the equivalent of 'stilts' so that waters can flow through if the worst happens.

[seajae]

this happens in Thailand every year no matter who is running the country, way past time that experts were brought in from overseas and worked out a way to prevent it. People in the flood areas are also aware that they flood every year yet do nothing about it, easier to simply bitch every year. Thailand is its own worst enemy, no one wants to get off the bums and do anything or spend the money to fix it, much of the flooding is preventable if the right works were done but lining ones pockets is a higher priority

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, laocowboy2 said:

Agree. People should be discouraged from building/living in designated flood plain areas. If they do build, then the units should be designed with expected floods in mind (e.g. with the living areas well off the ground floor and possible on the equivalent of 'stilts' so that waters can flow through if the worst happens.

Well, this is how houses were built years ago (and still are). These stilted homes are everywhere in the villages that surround me. Many have now had a downstairs built in but the majority still have the living acc' up high.

 

When I first move to Isaan I was intrigued by the style. I understand it serves 3 purposes:

 

01 keep living areas above water in flooding times.

02 buffaloes and cows can be kept under the house

03 keep vermin out (snakes, rats,  etc).

Edited October 25, 2017 by owl sees all
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