My car was flooded at a Bangkok hotel. What are my options

[mortenaa]

I bought a 2nd hand car recently for around a million something. Finance 800K + interest over a number of years: 968K total. 

 

First class insurance covers 800K. 

 

I stayed at a hotel in BKK, and during a recent flash flood, my car got totally flooded. They have a parking about a meter underground. Insurance picked it up, and took it to BMW. BMW says the repair costs exceeds my insurance, so the car will be condemned. Hopefully the finance will be settled with the insurance money, but I don;t know yet. 

 

I called the hotel, and said I recently lost 250K because I stayed with them. They told my their insurance company would not pay anything, as it was considered a natural disaster. 

 

What are my options. Sue ?

[Will E Vormer]

So because they arent covered, they arent liable? Lol 

Lawyers.

[richard_smith237]

How did you calculate that you have lost THB 250 k ?

 

It could be argued that the flooding was not a natural disaster... the River bursting its banks may be considered so, however, this was a car-park flooding under the deluge of precipitation, it could therefore be argued that the Hotel has not adequately protected its guests belongings (car) sufficiently from climatic conditions. 

 

Its not surprising that the hotel said no and that their insurance company also said no - its SOP.

 

If you are truly serious about recovering the losses and if your calculations are accurate that you are THB 250 baht out of pocket the forward plan would be speak to a reliable lawyer (go on a recommendation if you can). A good law practice should give you a free consultation, you will know your options with far greater clarity after this. 

 

If you choose to take the 'lawyer path' anything could happen, in a best case they could pay out quickly in the worst case they could continually say no, waste your time and wait for the case to be brought to caught in which case it will cost you more than your claim. 

 

You may be able to take advice from the consumer board... I'm not sure if they will handle such issues, however, speaking with them would not hurt and they could point you in the right direction. 

 

Best of luck. 

 

 

[mortenaa]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

How did you calculate that you have lost THB 250 k ?

 

It could be argued that the flooding was not a natural disaster... the River bursting its banks may be considered so, however, this was a car-park flooding under the deluge of precipitation, it could therefore be argued that the Hotel has not adequately protected its guests belongings (car) sufficiently from climatic conditions. 

 

Its not surprising that the hotel said no and that their insurance company also said no - its SOP.

 

If you are truly serious about recovering the losses and if your calculations are accurate that you are THB 250 baht out of pocket the forward plan would be speak to a reliable lawyer (go on a recommendation if you can). A good law practice should give you a free consultation, you will know your options with far greater clarity after this. 

 

If you choose to take the 'lawyer path' anything could happen, in a best case they could pay out quickly in the worst case they could continually say no, waste your time and wait for the case to be brought to caught in which case it will cost you more than your claim. 

 

You may be able to take advice from the consumer board... I'm not sure if they will handle such issues, however, speaking with them would not hurt and they could point you in the right direction. 

 

Best of luck. 

 

 

250K is what I roughly what I put in cash

[Will E Vormer]

Wouldnt your insurance company contact the hotels insurance for you?have you got this in writing from the hotel?

[stevenl]

You'll lose more than 250k. Finance 968k, car insured for (so pay out) 800k. So you can add 168k to your loss.

[mortenaa]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

You'll lose more than 250k. Finance 968k, car insured for (so pay out) 800k. So you can add 168k to your loss.

I think and hope the finance (BMW Finance) will not charge the interest on that, since my car's gone. 

[mortenaa]

3 minutes ago, Will E Vormer said:

Wouldnt your insurance company contact the hotels insurance for you?have you got this in writing from the hotel?

No, I haven't got it in writing. I am not in BKK, and don't have the time to run back and forward. Just called them up yesterday, when I got the unfortunate message from my insurance-company. 

[VocalNeal]

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

it could therefore be argued that the Hotel has not adequately protected its guests belongings (car) sufficiently from climatic conditions. 

...and didn't have a sump pump.

 

There is probably something written in the hotel blurb in very small print that says something about not being responsible for damage to vehicles parked in their lot etc..

 

 

[Sam Lin]

On 11/15/2017 at 1:23 AM, mortenaa said:

I think and hope the finance (BMW Finance) will not charge the interest on that, since my car's gone. 

You're likely in for a surprise.

 

Sam

[petermik]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:29 AM, VocalNeal said:

 

 

There is probably something written in the hotel blurb in very small print that says something about not being responsible for damage to vehicles parked in their lot etc..

 

 

Absolutely.....park at your own risk unfortunately

[steve187]

looks like its a lesson learnt the hard way. car insurance in Thailand is poor compared to the west, you knew the insurance only covered 800,000 baht when you took it out. the interest charges are not part of the cars value.

[mortenaa]

16 hours ago, steve187 said:

looks like its a lesson learnt the hard way. car insurance in Thailand is poor compared to the west, you knew the insurance only covered 800,000 baht when you took it out. the interest charges are not part of the cars value.

What lesson was that exactly? Don't park at a hotel? Don't buy a car? 

[Just Weird]

13 hours ago, mortenaa said:

What lesson was that exactly? Don't park at a hotel? Don't buy a car? 

The lesson probably was to get more cover next time.

[DGS1244]

Even if they do not like it the hotel has a duty of care and should be insured, in insurance terms for claims it is not classed as a natural disaster. Ask for details of their insurance company and see what happens. Very few policies cover a vehicle for a 100% loss,  that is nothing unusual. There is an insurance guide detailing the percentage of payout depending upon the depth of water etc. i.e. was if fully submerged?

[mortenaa]

14 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The lesson probably was to get more cover next time.

Maximum cover in Thailand is usually around 80% of the purchase price. 

[canthai55]

Sorry to hear this. I imagine the only way to be reimbursed is if your insurance company chases the hotel insurance company. Might equals right. They will have to determine if the costs of going to court to fight it are likely to be more than they will pay out if they lose.

All this hinges on your insurance company being willing to go to bat for you.

Hope it works out well - or semi-well - for you

[Adeeos]

Depending on the level of it's flooding,, as in,, over the motor?,,, etc,,  or inside flooded carpets?... I ask because it's maybe been totaled because of high labor, (BMW type labor costs), in addition to parts,, If the water was say, mid door,, it's not really an issue to flush all engine, trans fluids,, and refill,,, Carpets will have to COMPLETELY come out,, you'll NEVER get it dried otherwise,,same with the seats, etc,, My point is,, if you can determine the amount of damage,, it may be possible for you to let them total it,, then you might have the option to buy the car back from them as a salvage vehicle,, (much cheaper than a similar vehicle with a clean title),,, Then hire a decent generic shop, OTHER than BMW certified, at a cheaper labor rate,, to do the replacement work,,, such as flush as I mentioned,, remove, and either dry the carpets by laying in the sun a few days,,, seats, or replace them with other wrecked parts,, It can be done here in the USA like that,, Salvage title will affect the value on resale,, but if you intend to keep it, continue to drive it,, who cares? you'll know exactly what you have,,  It might be an option for you,, and help to lessen the $$ loss to you, if you let it go to the ins company,, If, "repaired" correctly,, you really shouldn't have any issues,,, As far as any flooded electrical parts,, should be easy enough to turn the key on, NOT running, and check things like power seats,, etc,,, Just a thought to look at,, 

 

[AlQaholic]

All condos and Hotels have an insurance that covers third party injury/damage at their facilities. It is up to the insurance company if they include/offer flooding insurance as well, or not, but I don't think any hotel in Bkk with an underground parking garage will be offered this option. So no, you will not get anything from the Hotel. You had flooding insurance for your car luckily, be content with that.

[Enoon]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:01 AM, mortenaa said:

What lesson was that exactly? Don't park at a hotel? Don't buy a car? 

 

Irresistible:

 

That, contrary to what they like to believe of themselves, BMW drivers have no special entitlement?

 

 

[Foozool]

"Act of god" will not be covered by many insurances. 

[isitworthit]

Buy a boat 

[isitworthit]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Sorry to hear this. I imagine the only way to be reimbursed is if your insurance company chases the hotel insurance company. Might equals right. They will have to determine if the costs of going to court to fight it are likely to be more than they will pay out if they lose.

All this hinges on your insurance company being willing to go to bat for you.

Hope it works out well - or semi-well - for you

Most places say owners park at own risk don't like your chances 

[jippytum]

For 250000 baht I would hire a lawyer on a contingency basis . The hotel's disclaimer if they have one no responsibility is not absolutely correct .When you stay at a hotel you have a reasonable expectation your belongings will be taken care of .The questions a lawyer would ask was the hotel negligent in not advising you  of the flooding risk .Has the carpark been flooded in the past for example .The possibility is yes. Was every effort made to remove your car or warn you to remove it as the water was rising before it became a write off .There are many examples in law where disclaimer notices are not upheld .At a venue coat check for example a recent case found the disclaimer 'items left at own risk ' to be invalid

another case involved a laundry and dry cleaners.

[The Deerhunter]

1 hour ago, Adeeos said:

Depending on the level of it's flooding,, as in,, over the motor?,,, etc,,  or inside flooded carpets?... I ask because it's maybe been totaled because of high labor, (BMW type labor costs), in addition to parts,, If the water was say, mid door,, it's not really an issue to flush all engine, trans fluids,, and refill,,, Carpets will have to COMPLETELY come out,, you'll NEVER get it dried otherwise,,same with the seats, etc,, My point is,, if you can determine the amount of damage,, it may be possible for you to let them total it,, then you might have the option to buy the car back from them as a salvage vehicle,, (much cheaper than a similar vehicle with a clean title),,, Then hire a decent generic shop, OTHER than BMW certified, at a cheaper labor rate,, to do the replacement work,,, such as flush as I mentioned,, remove, and either dry the carpets by laying in the sun a few days,,, seats, or replace them with other wrecked parts,, It can be done here in the USA like that,, Salvage title will affect the value on resale,, but if you intend to keep it, continue to drive it,, who cares? you'll know exactly what you have,,  It might be an option for you,, and help to lessen the $$ loss to you, if you let it go to the ins company,, If, "repaired" correctly,, you really shouldn't have any issues,,, As far as any flooded electrical parts,, should be easy enough to turn the key on, NOT running, and check things like power seats,, etc,,, Just a thought to look at,, 

 

Sensible advice.  Unlike some offered.  If the car has already been seen by BMW then they might/should have some of the answers for you already to decide whether this approach has possibilities.

[The Deerhunter]

2 minutes ago, jippytum said:

For 250000 baht I would hire a lawyer on a contingency basis . The hotel's disclaimer if they have one no responsibility is not absolutely correct .When you stay at a hotel you have a reasonable expectation your belongings will be taken care of .The questions a lawyer would ask was the hotel negligent in not advising you  of the flooding risk .Has the carpark been flooded in the past for example .The possibility is yes. Was every effort made to remove your car or warn you to remove it as the water was rising before it became a write off .There are many examples in law where disclaimer notices are not upheld .At a venue coat check for example a recent case found the disclaimer 'items left at own risk ' to be invalid

another case involved a laundry and dry cleaners.

In Thailand?????????????  Or in a "back home" country ?

[Sydebolle]

Go and see the GM of the hotel and tell him exactly what you would be doing if they do not cover for the difference. 
Springing to mind is plastering FB, Twitter and all other social media with their behaviour; if that does not work then get the car tow trucked onto the main ramp in front of the lobby, offloaded there and just dont move - sure you need to get the TV channels (and there are PLENTY leeching for a good story). You'll inform TAAT, TAT and the Ministry of Tourism. Go the full nine yard and you might end up with a new car. As this damage happened on their premises it is irrespective of what their insurance pays or not; they remain liable for the damage unless it is explicitly stated that they refuse any liability on the car parking ticket, general business conditions or with respective signs on the drive-in or garage. For all that they would have to prove that this disclaimer was there before the flood.

Takes some nerves but you'll get there ;-) Good luck and keep us posted 

[ujayujay]

The point: Usually natural desasters are not covered. Wheter in Thailand nor any other Countries.

[digger70]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:01 AM, mortenaa said:

What lesson was that exactly? Don't park at a hotel? Don't buy a car? 

Stay above the Flood line  no matter where you go/stay , We did when buying land and Build a house No Probs.  

[Tracyb]

Keep the pressure on the hotel and never, ever give up until the matter is settled.