Help me with two Condo options - about to buy

[rnalswls2]

Hi, 

 

I and my husband are about to buy a condo for living. We've lived in BKK for 2 years and we quite like BKK to live next 5-6 years (at least). So we'd like to buy a condo. Here are two options we are thinking at the moment. 

 

Option A: 

- 10 min walking from BTS On nut 

- New room, never pre-owned. Means we will buy it from the developer. 

- Building is low rise, about 70% of occupancy.

- Built 4 years ago

- 2 Bedroom, 2 bath, 68sqm, 6.3MB

- Fully furnished - nice new brand TV, fridge, washing machine, induction etc. 

 

Option B:

- 10 min walking from BTS Prom Pong

- Right near the Emporium

- Built 30 years ago 

- 2 Bed, 2 bath, 140 sqm, 6.6MB

- Building is old (of course), lobby is not fancy (of course), but the room itself is well managed, huge and clean, lots of space

- Half furnished - built in closet is nice but rest furniture is not my style and would need to buy new one (couch, TV, fridge etc) 

 

Which one sounds better to buy? We will live there for at least 5 years and maybe re-sell it after that (or not, we are not sure). 

I love the Option B's location and space size but 30 years old building is really okay to buy? By the time when we try to re-sell it it would be almost 40 years old building. 

But the location is real nice,  it's right next to Emporium with many Japanese expats around.

 

Option A is new, and seems a safer option to choose but even it's all new I quite don't like the size. If we are looking to live there, 68sqm for two of us (or baby in any near future) would be too small. 

 

Guys, what would you do if it's your situation? !

 

 

 

ps - also, I have very stupid, basic question here... when foreigner owns a condo, does it mean really 'permanent'? So let's say I bought it under my name, and by accident I die, will this still go to my foreign husband or family?

 

Thanks

[DLang]

3 minutes ago, rnalswls2 said:

ps - also, I have very stupid, basic question here... when foreigner owns a condo, does it mean really 'permanent'? So let's say I bought it under my name, and by accident I die, will this still go to my foreign husband or family?

Good question.

 

I have a half-Thai born child, that will inherit mine (as stated in my Thai will). Can a foreigner be listed in a Thai will?

 

 

For the other stuff, go with your heart. It's for living in and not a pure financial investment. 

 

One thing is the condo management. Have they been doing their job well? 

[steven100]

I think you've already picked the one you like ....

Option b sounds better as it's location is suited, size is important if your living there for the next 5 yrs, also you can slowly choose what furniture you want to purchase ...

As  for 30 yr old building is nothing ....  a building can be 60 yrs old and freshly painted etc .... you will still get a good return even at 35 yr old.

[rnalswls2]

4 minutes ago, DLang said:

Good question.

 

I have a half-Thai born child, that will inherit mine (as stated in my Thai will). Can a foreigner be listed in a Thai will?

 

 

For the other stuff, go with your heart. It's for living in and not a pure financial investment. 

 

One thing is the condo management. Have they been doing their job well? 

Hi, how do I check if their management is doing their job well? Which fact should I check? Should I re-visit the building and walk around to check the building conditions? Or ask our agent? Please let help me here :)! thanks

[DLang]

1 minute ago, rnalswls2 said:

how do I check if their management is doing their job well?

Look around. Anything that needs painting or fixing? (and is being left undone?)

 

Spend an afternoon in the lobby, talk to people living there. Are there cleaners and service staff around doing their job? Security guards doing their job?

 

All are signs of how competent and well run the condo management are. 

 

Are half the units empty? If so, they won't likely be paying their annual service fees which means the maintenance staff won't be employed for much longer. 

[Destiny1990]

Option B.

better location and way better sqm price.

[Dogbarker]

Various options....I have several condos all older ones. Some i have fully renovated and all has been good. Remember few people want used condos so do not anticipate big profit when you sell. Consider :Go deeper down and find a condo big size and renovate to a high standard  save 2 million baht buy a new car or bike or try to stagger the rush Hour and you have lots of options...   And maybe a bit quieter than where you ate looking .....? Whatever enjoy onnut area . also consider places around San am pao. And Ari good bts links less busy than on nut good and up and coming with some good choices.one other tip keep every scrap of paper bank transfer documents as evidence if purchase ..  And i mean literally everything !   for when you come to sell easy to bring money in can be difficult taking out in six years without all the paper trail

[brotherother]

If you're concerned about being able to resell the old condo in Prakanong but confident the On Nut condo (or any other condo) is a good investment , perhaps you could buy the On Nut/other condo, rent it out, and use that rental income to go towards you and your partner renting the Prakanong condo (which sounds like the place you'd prefer to be living)?

[brotherother]

Just now, brotherother said:

If you're concerned about being able to resell the old condo in Prakanong but confident the On Nut condo (or any other condo) is a good investment , perhaps you could buy the On Nut/other condo, rent it out, and use that rental income to go towards you and your partner renting the Prakanong condo (which sounds like the place you'd prefer to be living)?

Appologies, I meant Prom Pong, not Prakanong.

[rnalswls2]

4 minutes ago, brotherother said:

Appologies, I meant Prom Pong, not Prakanong.

Yeah could be... but if I live in Prompong one, I would want to change all the furniture  inside since they look quite old. And if I rent it out I cannot do that. 

[rnalswls2]

55 minutes ago, Dogbarker said:

Various options....I have several condos all older ones. Some i have fully renovated and all has been good. Remember few people want used condos so do not anticipate big profit when you sell. Consider :Go deeper down and find a condo big size and renovate to a high standard  save 2 million baht buy a new car or bike or try to stagger the rush Hour and you have lots of options...   And maybe a bit quieter than where you ate looking .....? Whatever enjoy onnut area . also consider places around San am pao. And Ari good bts links less busy than on nut good and up and coming with some good choices.one other tip keep every scrap of paper bank transfer documents as evidence if purchase ..  And i mean literally everything !   for when you come to sell easy to bring money in can be difficult taking out in six years without all the paper trail

Phayathai is not the area we are looking at at the moment. Since our workplace is near BTS Prakanong we prefer staying on the east side. 

 

And thanks for the note, yes I will make sure to scrap every transcation history! 

[trogers]

A 140 sqm old condo at less than Bt50k per sqm in Phrom Phong district can only go up in value.

 

A new condo in Onnut at double that price rate can fall in value by a third when the bubble is pricked.

 

If you consider that location adds value, Prom Phong district commands 3x the price rate of Onnut by comparing new projects in both districts.

[rnalswls2]

40 minutes ago, trogers said:

A 140 sqm old condo at less than Bt50k per sqm in Phrom Phong district can only go up in value.

 

A new condo in Onnut at double that price rate can fall in value by a third when the bubble is pricked.

 

If you consider that location adds value, Prom Phong district commands 3x the price rate of Onnut by comparing new projects in both districts.

Thanks for the opinion - I hope so! :) 

 

Can you, or anyone also answer my second question?

"ps - also, I have very stupid, basic question here... when foreigner owns a condo, does it mean really 'permanent'? So let's say I bought it under my name, and by accident I die, will this still go to my foreign husband or family?"

 

 

[trogers]

A pertinent question you should ask yourself is, why the project is only 70% occupied four years after construction completion.

 

The other point to look into would be the volume of unsold stock, keeping in mind that a developer would launch his project for bookings 3-4 years before planned completion.

 

If there are remaining unsold stocks after that 7 years, that implies the lack of demand at that price level. This would affect your ability to sell it 5 years later without incurring a loss.

Edited November 28, 2017 by trogers

[Mr Smoothex]

Option A is only 4 years old and only 70% occupied. So in 4 years they have only sold 70% of the development. So in 5 years when you want to sell it, How long will it take you to sell??

 

Another important thing that a lot of people don't take into consideration is the currency rates. That is where the big gamble is. I had a mate who bought a house 10 years ago and it was 7 million baht. He transferred Pound Stirling over and got 70 baht to the pound. Place cost him 100K pounds. Didn't like the place and for 7 years he tried to sell it. He had a burmese couple staying there as caretakers. Finally sold it for 5 million. He got out of it without losing too much because the pound dropped to 50 baht to the pound, so he got his 100k baht.

 

The exchange rates here are not good because of the strength of the baht and domestic problems in a lot of countries, so what would happen if the baht dropped by 20% or your home currency increased by 20%. That would make a difference  by 20% in your final return when you sell it. Pay 6.3 mil for it and then lose 1.26mil in exchange rates. 

 

Is that the gamble you are prepared to take..??

[jippytum]

1 minute ago, trogers said:

A pertinent question you should ask yourself is, why the project is only 70% occupied after four years of construction completion.

 

The other point to look into would be the volume of unsold stock, keeping in mind that a developer would launch his project for bookings 3-4 years before planned completion.

 

If there are remaining unsold stocks after that 7 years, that implies the lack of demand at that price level. This would affect your ability to sell it 5 years later without incurring a loss.

correct ......... Please note there is no reason not to purchase jointly with your wife under the foreign quota.

[trogers]

A condo is sold as a freehold property. You get your name on the title deed when you do the transfer at the Land Office and pay the 90% of the agreed price. The first 10% is paid on signing a sales & purchase agreement between property owner (named in the present title deed) and you.

 

Are you a Thai or a foreigner?

Edited November 28, 2017 by trogers

[rnalswls2]

7 minutes ago, trogers said:

A condo is sold as a freehold property. You get your name on the title deed when you do the transfer at the Land Office and pay the 90% of the agreed price. The first 10% is paid on signing a sales & purchase agreement between property owner (named in the present title deed) and you.

 

Are you a Thai or a foreigner?

I'm a foreigner so is my spouse. 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

size is important if your living there for the next 5 yrs, also you can slowly choose what furniture you want to purchase ...

Absolutely agree with that comment.............furniture can be modernised and replaced at your leisure, but you are STUCK with limited space. And you already see that as a concern with the smaller condo, so that concern will most likely grow in your mind as time goes on.

 

Option B for me provided you do your homework on the body corp and maintenance/upkeep.

[trogers]

You can refurbish an old condo, but cannot enlarge a small condo.

 

This is one of my refurbished old condo. Over 38-yo, also in Phrom Phong district.

 

[trogers]

10 minutes ago, rnalswls2 said:

I'm a foreigner so is my spouse. 

You can buy the condo in joint names, as you would have to send cash and get a certificate from the Thai bank, called FET, for submission to the Land Office during title transfer.

 

If only in your name, you can make a Thai will to cover inheritance issues.

[SGD]

The money is roughly £150k which at 6% would bring in £9k per annum which is just over Bt30k a month. You don't get a lot of decent sized condo in Bangkok for Bt30k per month.

 

The larger condo is the one to go for obviously, largely because the other is not full and thus overpriced, even when new. Resales will be hard.

 

Forget FX rates, buy the older condo and do it up. If in LOS for 5 years then renting at such a level is daft really, if you have the money to buy.

 

As to the "forever" question then yes, your nominated successor can inherit but you would be better off making a Thai will for assets exclusively in Thailand. 

[realenglish1]

Older is better built Secondly you do not live in the Lobby More space inside than building A

 

and you can just renovate to modern standards

 

Not reason enough that you are given new appliances Not that expensive to buy new

Go for plan B I would

[rnalswls2]

11 minutes ago, SGD said:

The money is roughly £150k which at 6% would bring in £9k per annum which is just over Bt30k a month. You don't get a lot of decent sized condo in Bangkok for Bt30k per month.

 

The larger condo is the one to go for obviously, largely because the other is not full and thus overpriced, even when new. Resales will be hard.

 

Forget FX rates, buy the older condo and do it up. If in LOS for 5 years then renting at such a level is daft really, if you have the money to buy.

 

As to the "forever" question then yes, your nominated successor can inherit but you would be better off making a Thai will for assets exclusively in Thailand. 

1. It will be under my name (foreigner) 

2. After that I will make a Thai will to nominate my spouse (also a foreigner) 

3. In case we both die (am I getting too much dramatic???) can I also nominate our family member who never lived in Thailand as well? 

[trogers]

4 minutes ago, rnalswls2 said:

1. It will be under my name (foreigner) 

2. After that I will make a Thai will to nominate my spouse (also a foreigner) 

3. In case we both die (am I getting too much dramatic???) can I also nominate our family member who never lived in Thailand as well? 

Sure. I just inherited my late dad's condo July last year. We are both foreigners, and he did not live in Thailand.

Edited November 28, 2017 by trogers

[Kinnock]

As you're buying to live in yourself, then I'd go for Option B, so long as there's an effective building committee and maintenance seems to be ongoing.  The extra space and more 'premium' location will add to your quality of life. 

 

On Nut is a good place to live, but the park at Phrom Pong and the Emporium is better in my view, and the extra size is well worth it.  You can also improve it over time and make it your own.

 

If you were buying as an investment, then that changes things.  In other countries the top three factors are:  Location, location, location.  But in Thailand it's; Newness, newness, free iPhone..

[trogers]

1 minute ago, Kinnock said:

As you're buying to live in yourself, then I'd go for Option B, so long as there's an effective building committee and maintenance seems to be ongoing.  The extra space and more 'premium' location will add to your quality of life. 

 

On Nut is a good place to live, but the park at Phrom Pong and the Emporium is better in my view, and the extra size is well worth it.  You can also improve it over time and make it your own.

 

If you were buying as an investment, then that changes things.  In other countries the top three factors are:  Location, location, location.  But in Thailand it's; Newness, newness, free iPhone..

Disagree on that investment part. The old condo would give better rental yield than the new. That 70% occupancy rate already points to a difficulty in getting tenants.

 

Newness is only for speculators on capital gains. The unsold stock of the developer points to zero capital gains.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

You can refurbish an old condo, but cannot enlarge a small condo.

 

This is one of my refurbished old condo. Over 38-yo, also in Phrom Phong district.

 

Nice ceiling design..

[trogers]

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Nice ceiling design..

The old buildings use beam and slab construction, allowing us to open the space up. This unit attained 2.9m height.

[newnative]

Option B.  Location, location, location.  Plus, bigger to boot.  If the building is being maintained adequately now, chances are it will remain that way.  As posters have said, you can gradually change out the furniture and make other changes as your budget permits.