Bangkok Air Pollution

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, JimShorts said:

Consider that these numbers are for healthy adults. Many factors to consider such as other toxins your body is having to process, your age, etc. PM2.5 has a much worse affect on children who are much smaller and not able to absorb and process as much pollution as an adult. The effect of PM2.5 on a small baby or infant is really bad. 

 

In terms of "sensitive" populations, apart from children, older folks are also definitely put into that category, in terms of having greater health risks that can be triggered by exposure to pollution. Among the air pollution triggered health risks are heart attack, stroke, COPD, other respiratory problems.

 

I believe that greater health risk from air pollution for older folks is at least in part triggered by generally weaker immune system protections as the average person gets older.

 

[madmen]

How effective is it to run the aircon units with an added layer of 3M Filtrete filters on the suction side?
From memory you did some testing with the 3M Filtrete sheets last season.

For smog and car exhaust pollution filter your going to need more than just a 3m. I think you need charcoal as well.
Best buy a purifier with 4 filters on lazada

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

How effective is it to run the aircon units with an added layer of 3M Filtrete filters on the suction side?

From memory you did some testing with the 3M Filtrete sheets last season.

 

I did a year ago in the last smog season... and it seemed to help some..

 

I also started with the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con a couple weeks back when the air in BKK got really bad, and didn't notice as much of a difference... But this season I was only doing 90% coverage, whereas I think last season, I covered the entirety of my regular filters with Filtrete.

 

So now... I'm not sure.  Probably need to do some more with and without comparisons this year to get a better feel for that.

 

However, my broad view of that is -- as long as you change the Filtrete sheets regularly so they don't get clogged up and impair the air flow and cooling function of your air con unit -- then there's certainly no downside, and they can only help in terms of air filtration.

 

The Filtrete material is certainly a better/stronger filter than just the standard plastic screen filters that come with most air con units.

 

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

then there's certainly no downside,

Perhaps financial?  They are not cheap as I recall (unless price has gone down in last decade).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

For smog and car exhaust pollution filter your going to need more than just a 3m. I think you need charcoal as well.
Best buy a purifier with 4 filters on lazada

 

I see using Filtrete material on top of regular household air con filters as an ADJUNCT to also running a HEPA filter air purifier indoors, especially during the worst of the smog season here in Dec. to Feb or March.

 

I don't see Filtrete as a replacement or substitute for using a HEPA air purifier -- unless someone is so hard pressed for cash that they can't afford to buy a purifier...

 

There are indeed VERY expensive HEPA purifier units being sold here in Thailand. But depending on one's room size, there also are units down in the 3000-4000 baht range that are legit HEPA units that can handle a typical bedroom size, and such...

 

[madmen]

How effective is it to run the aircon units with an added layer of 3M Filtrete filters on the suction side?
From memory you did some testing with the 3M Filtrete sheets last season.

A carbon filter is needed for exhaust pollution

https://www.breathingspace.co.uk/how-to-choose-an-air-purifier-to-remove-traffic-pollutants-i115

The 3m is clearly not able to capture most exhaust particles on its own but still a good idea if on a budget

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Perhaps financial?  They are not cheap as I recall (unless price has gone down in last decade).

 

Regarding the Filtrete material, you can buy a large roll or two of Filtrete for 500-600 baht, and that's more than enough to last thru the entirety of the bad smog season here. So for a once a year purchase, I'd consider that pretty minimal.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/3-15x96-1-1-3m-filtrete-air-filter-roll-15x96-inch-i204698444-s309061449.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.70.4722e0c2eFI71r&search=1

 

Also, it's generally cheaper to buy Filtrete in the larger sized rolls from Lazada or HomePro vs buying it in the smaller size envelope packages.

 

[lopburi3]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Regarding the Filtrete material, you can buy a large roll or two of Filtrete for 500-600 baht, and that's more than enough to last thru the entirety of the bad smog season here. So for a once a year purchase, I'd consider that pretty minimal.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/3-15x96-1-1-3m-filtrete-air-filter-roll-15x96-inch-i204698444-s309061449.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.70.4722e0c2eFI71r&search=1

 

Also, it's generally cheaper to buy Filtrete in the larger sized rolls from Lazada or HomePro vs buying it in the smaller size envelope packages.

 

When I used, pre-Lazada days) it was only in the envelope sized packages at close to 300 baht for one/two use size and even then very hard to find.  But worse they did not seem to do much except get black (obviously were doing something to get black - but to keep flow going you had to replace every few days).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

When I used, pre-Lazada days) it was only in the envelope sized packages at close to 300 baht for one/two use size and even then very hard to find.  But worse they did not seem to do much except get black (obviously were doing something to get black - but to keep flow going you had to replace every few days).

 

As you can see in the Lazada link above, the prices for the large rolls are much better these days. And the larger HomePro's also tend to carry those same large size rolls. For ONE air con unit, one or two of those large rolls changed every two weeks or so ought to be enough to last thru the entire smog season.

 

I'm talking in a normal Thailand environment -- not somewhere where your neighbors are burning their fields and your home is regularly being covered in showers of ash. 

 

Believe it or not, when I first tested Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con units last year, the sheets seemed to be getting clogged up VERY fast, like every week, and I couldn't figure out why... And eventually, I discovered, it was because I was using a BIT of after shower powder every morning. And although I couldn't see it, that was apparently getting circulated in the air... Once I stopped using the after shower powder, no more problem with my bedroom Filtrete sheets getting clogged!

Edited January 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, JimShorts said:

not sure I trust any of this data as accurate, Greenpeaces seems the most realistic. 

 

I believe when Greenpeace talks about Thailand air pollution, they're generally basing that on the government's network of air quality sensors, that in past years only had a few PM2.5 monitoring sites, but now in more recent years have expanded those more (although still not nationwide.)

 

They seem to do a better job of tracking local results here year to year, than various of the other sources I've seen....

 

 

 

[madmen]

Affordable and with built in counter that works. Even goes off to high fan speed when I use the microwave

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/gruenluft-vk-6006d-35-2-i116781007-s121289054.html

 

35 sqm

3, 600 baht. Only worry is there is just one filter supplier on lazada

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, JimShorts said:

Another great app is BreezoMeter. What is nice about this app is it has a very granular, real time zoomed in mode, where you can easily find pockets of clean air within your area. For example right now the air is a little better Bang Kachao, then Sukhumvit. When the air is bad like the last few days it is less useful, but on days when the air is yellow/orange you can usually find many green pockets.

 

Thanks for that suggestion. That's an app title I've never heard of before, so I'll check it out on my phone...

 

On the locality issue you raise, that's interesting...because over the past year or so that I've been looking closely and regularly at the BKK area PM2.5 readings, I OFTEN find the sensors in what I'd call the center of the city -- Silom, Lumphini, even Pathum Wan Sukhumvit -- often seem to have LOWER readings that those on the outer surrounding areas... And that seems to be pretty consistently the case.

 

If it was just one sensor, it might come down to something of placement. But I see a pretty regular pattern about that. And my own sensors at home generally match up pretty well, or even a bit less, than the central city ones. But rarely or never as high as the ones in the outlying areas.

 

So I'm a bit perplexed what's going on with that, and is there a real difference in the air area to area on a consistent basis, or it comes down to some other factor like how/where particular sensors are placed relative to roads / traffic / etc.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, JimShorts said:

 

Another great app is BreezoMeter. What is nice about this app is it has a very granular, real time zoomed in mode, where you can easily find pockets of clean air within your area. For example right now the air is a little better Bang Kachao, then Sukhumvit. When the air is bad like the last few days it is less useful, but on days when the air is yellow/orange you can usually find many green pockets.

 

 

Jim, I installed it, and tried it, and I think I'm going to stick with AirVisual, etc...

 

The one downside I noticed immediately with Breezometer, at least for me, is that they seem to do all their air quality ratings based on an AQI scale that's entirely different than either the widely used US EPA scale or even the different, local Thai AQI scale.  So for me, that made it unwieldy and confusing (too many scales).

 

For me, I pretty much ignore the Thai AQI scale and data sources that use it, and rely on the US EPA AQI scale data that is used by both AQICN.org and AirVisual, among others.  At least that way, when I'm bouncing from source to source or place to place, it's all working from a common scale and framework for readings.

 

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In terms of "sensitive" populations, apart from children, older folks are also definitely put into that category, in terms of having greater health risks that can be triggered by exposure to pollution. Among the air pollution triggered health risks are heart attack, stroke, COPD, other respiratory problems.

 

I believe that greater health risk from air pollution for older folks is at least in part triggered by generally weaker immune system protections as the average person gets older.

 

 

Allergies generally do not indicate a weakened immune system- the opposite may be true as allergies generally are attributed to an over-reaction.  With chemical irritants, it sadly is the case that we never get used to them.

 

I agree there comes a time when poor immune systems seem to wear out much as the rest of our body.  Older people may also be worn down more quickly from the effects of the illness they suffer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Allergies generally do not indicate a weakened immune system- the opposite may be true as allergies generally are attributed to an over-reaction.  With chemical irritants, it sadly is the case that we never get used to them.

 

I agree there comes a time when poor immune systems seem to wear out much as the rest of our body.  Older people may also be worn down more quickly from the effects of the illness they suffer.

 

Just to note, the air pollution related health risks I cited in my post did NOT include allergies in terms of something that people necessarily become more vulnerable to with age.... And actually, I didn't mention allergies at all...

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimShorts]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:22 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Jim, I installed it, and tried it, and I think I'm going to stick with AirVisual, etc...

 

The one downside I noticed immediately with Breezometer, at least for me, is that they seem to do all their air quality ratings based on an AQI scale that's entirely different than either the widely used US EPA scale or even the different, local Thai AQI scale.  So for me, that made it unwieldy and confusing (too many scales).

 

For me, I pretty much ignore the Thai AQI scale and data sources that use it, and rely on the US EPA AQI scale data that is used by both AQICN.org and AirVisual, among others.  At least that way, when I'm bouncing from source to source or place to place, it's all working from a common scale and framework for readings.

 

 

 

 

I primarily use AirVisual as well, it is the best IMO.

 

However every once in a while I find Breezometer useful for the granular scanning. I agree their rating system is unique and annoying. I ignore the numbers in their app and look at the colors instead. The granularity of the map is really nice. Look at it today, you can zoom out of bangkok a bit and see the pollution sources are coming from Ratchaburi, Lopburi, Nakhon Sawan. Zoom in and you can see air is much better in Bang Na today then Khlong Toei. 

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

I prefer the aqicn app as it uses official statistics and you can quickly get the nearest monitoring station.

Edited January 18, 2019 by edwardandtubs

[balo]

I will probably also go for the above Sndway. Do you know what kind of pm2.5 sensor it is using? Laser, LED, light scatter?
 
Have you ever taken the sensor out and tested the air quality in a shopping center?
The air feels clean in most department stores, but the cooler air can deceiving.  

I did take a trip out to Central Festival here in Pattaya with my SNDWAY. It started flashing red when I entered inside the parking area, so no surprises there . Inside the air-con mall, the air quality varied, in most of the stores it was a bit over 45 (pm 2.5) , and in the food court it started flashing red again, also near Burger King there was a kitchen smell in the air so very bad really.

[lopburi3]

I received New Technology Formaldehyde HCHO below unit today at under $22 (last unit but others have on Aliexpress) and other than not having any English instruction sheet (really not needed) seems to be working fine and confirms my Hatari AP12 is doing its job.  Here in Latphao measure AQI 101 in open air rooms and 25 in bedroom where filter in operation.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

26 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I received New Technology Formaldehyde HCHO below unit today at under $22 (last unit but others have on Aliexpress) and other than not having any English instruction sheet (really not needed) seems to be working fine and confirms my Hatari AP12 is doing its job.  Here in Latphao measure AQI 101 in open air rooms and 25 in bedroom where filter in operation.  

 

Lopburi, the unit you bought, is it showing you only AQI results or also PM2.5 results in micrograms?

 

The reason I ask is, the U.S. and Thailand and maybe even China all have different AQI scales. So with a China market unit, if it is only showing AQI results, I'd wonder how to know what AQI scale it's using.

 

It does measure PM2.5, right?  In addition to other pollutants?

 

[lopburi3]

It shows PM2.5 in micrograms.  Currently reading 005 (aqi 21) using USA converter at

https://aqicn.org/calculator/

 

This appears to be the same unit from another seller.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Digital-Formaldeyde-Detector-HCHO-TVOC-PM1-0-PM2-5-PM10-Detector-with-PM2-5-Mask-Gas/32855038813.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.98.1b9d1369roRes5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_433_10618_431_10307_537_536,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=72621a71-94c2-44e7-9ee9-149b65511948-14&algo_pvid=72621a71-94c2-44e7-9ee9-149b65511948&transAbTest=ae803_5

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

It shows PM2.5 in micrograms.  Currently reading 005 (aqi 21) using USA converter at

https://aqicn.org/calculator/

 

This appears to be the same unit from another seller.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Digital-Formaldeyde-Detector-HCHO-TVOC-PM1-0-PM2-5-PM10-Detector-with-PM2-5-Mask-Gas/32855038813.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.98.1b9d1369roRes5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_433_10618_431_10307_537_536,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=72621a71-94c2-44e7-9ee9-149b65511948-14&algo_pvid=72621a71-94c2-44e7-9ee9-149b65511948&transAbTest=ae803_5

Mostly good reviews, but some alarming bad ones also, let us know how it works over time:

Stopped working in a 4 days. Shows TVOC and HCHO in values like we are dead already. Doesn't able to calibrate. So correct values only for PM sensor. Doesn't worth to be bought! Seller proposed nothing.

Edited January 19, 2019 by ExpatOilWorker

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Mostly good reviews, but some alarming bad ones also, let us know how it works over time:

Stopped working in a 4 days. Shows TVOC and HCHO in values like we are dead already. Doesn't able to calibrate. So correct values only for PM sensor. Doesn't worth to be bought! Seller proposed nothing.

Sure, machines can be a bunch of huey.

I have been here for 3 days and have no issues air seems the same to me.  A little cloud hovering but nothing more then any other major city.

Went for a jog this morning felt great.

I guess it may bother the sick and unhealthy though.

 

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure, machines can be a bunch of huey.

I have been here for 3 days and have no issues air seems the same to me.  A little cloud hovering but nothing more then any other major city.

Went for a jog this morning felt great.

I guess it may bother the sick and unhealthy though.

 

There's a big difference between being somewhere for 3 days and settling there. When you live here long term you have to consider the effects of long-term exposure, particularly on your cardiovascular health.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

I guess it may bother the sick and unhealthy though.

Well its bothering me having just been stented. Then again, I was smoking prior thereto so I reckon at least half my problem is gone.

 

Cant find an N95 anywhere. Surgical mask with tissue and a bandana helps a bit. Trying to do my walking in the Malls

[madmen]

Sure, machines can be a bunch of huey.
I have been here for 3 days and have no issues air seems the same to me.  A little cloud hovering but nothing more then any other major city.
Went for a jog this morning felt great.
I guess it may bother the sick and unhealthy though.
 

3 days? smog doesn't knock you on your backside getting off the plane but takes many years. Think of it like lung cancer from smoking which is basically smog ingested on purpose in large quantity and can take 30 years to kill but kill it will

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure, machines can be a bunch of huey.

I have been here for 3 days and have no issues air seems the same to me.  A little cloud hovering but nothing more then any other major city.

Went for a jog this morning felt great.

I guess it may bother the sick and unhealthy though.

 

There are some that suffer very little in Bangkok even after many months or years.  I think for the average John/Joe/Tommy the first month is like a honeymoon period. But the effects on the nose and throat are a bit like a dripping tap- not much of a problem at first!

 

It did bother me and I tend towards mild allergies- so I guess that puts me in the 'sick and unhealthy' category.  I guess I'd better stop going to the gym for fear of total breakdown????

[mommysboy]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:07 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Just to note, the air pollution related health risks I cited in my post did NOT include allergies in terms of something that people necessarily become more vulnerable to with age.... And actually, I didn't mention allergies at all...

 

In terms of "sensitive" populations, apart from children, older folks are also definitely put into that category, in terms of having greater health risks that can be triggered by exposure to pollution. Among the air pollution triggered health risks are heart attack, stroke, COPD, other respiratory problems.

 

I believe that greater health risk from air pollution for older folks is at least in part triggered by generally weaker immune system protections as the average person gets older.

 

 

 

The most common reaction to air pollution is rhinitis- it is referred to even by doctors as an allergy.  If left unchecked as it often is because the effects of air pollution are difficult to mitigate it can go on to cause untold URT infections.

 

Most allergic reactions are the result of a strong immune reaction.

 

I would guess that older people are indeed more at risk because they are the ones more likely to be suffering from a pre-existing condition.

 

It is only when particularly old that a weakened immune system is likely to be involved imo.  

 

Mainly in oppositon to just part of your view, I am saying the determinant is mostly pre-existing health issues and not a weak immune system.

 

 

[lopburi3]

Air filter effect test today.  Hatari AP-12 with 3 1/2 month old filter running 24 hours a day at speed 2 (low) in 26 square meter room.  Measurements at far corner of room 4 meters from Hatari with no direct airflow.  All areas of room within one micron.

 

38 micron/106 AQI at 0855 after fan/window airing of room.

14 micron/054 AQI at 0925

11 micron/046 AQI at 0940

07 micron/029 AQI at 1025  adjacent rooms at 41 micron/114 AQI

 

So very impressed with difference a good filtration unit makes (and this is not the most expensive type by far). 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

07 micron/029 AQI at 1025  adjacent rooms at 41 micron/114 AQI

 

What area, Lopbuuri?