Bangkok Air Pollution

[edwardandtubs]

3 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

I don’t ever remember it being this bad in Bangkok. I feel awfull after going for a 30 mins stroll. I was throwing up last night afterwards.

 

not a breath of wind here to move it. 

Yes, AQI was in the red last night so everyone is advised to avoid outdoor exercise. It's back down to moderate now.

[Pib]

Now at 8:15pm in my little part of western Bangkok my new SNDWAY PM2.5 air quality indicator says inside my air conditioned home the PM2.5 is 23...go outside the PM2.5 is 51.   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

Now at 3pm the indoor and outdoor PM2.5 pollution is less....see below.  So, I have now decided to sleep in to around 3pm daily which should improve my health.

 

 

For much of this past week, there's been a daily trend that I'm not sure I've noticed before...to wit:

 

On many days, the air has gotten bad starting about dinner time and continuing overnight and into the early morning hours.

 

And then, by late morning or midday, it starts getting better and remains OK through the afternoon, until it starts deteriorating again after dinner.

 

Not sure why that's been happening, but it's basically happened for the past three days, and was happening similar before that.  Perhaps some breeze is kicking up in the afternoons. Or perhaps is just the timing it takes for the burning area smoke to make its way into BKK... Not sure, but the pattern has been definite.

 

[lopburi3]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Or perhaps is just the timing it takes for the burning area smoke to make its way into BKK... Not sure, but the pattern has been definite.

Open burning to keep warm perhaps?  Nights have been getting cooler.

[DaveInSukhumvit]

They burn a lot of garbage at night.  Can't see smoke.  Waste-to-energy plants are part of problem.  Importing waste from other countries part also. 

 

You can see pollution peaks after midnight on aqicn.org site.  Products of combustion (NO2 and SO2) also go high.  BTS is shut down.  Traffic is less.  Factories are generally idle.  Wind speed often near zero.  Hum...

We don't sort garbage here, so it doesn't burn well.  Need to add fuel like plastic bags.  China shut down waste imports in Jan 2018 then imports went to to nearby countries Thailand, Cambodia, etc. One container into Thailand found had garbage from 30 different countries. 

One day this will change.  Awareness is up.  Many people now are wearing masks in BKK - that is new.  Someone will be a hero - hopefully soon.  Maybe press will make it an election issue.  I hope so.  But hope is not a plan.

[Pib]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

For much of this past week, there's been a daily trend that I'm not sure I've noticed before...to wit:

 

On many days, the air has gotten bad starting about dinner time and continuing overnight and into the early morning hours.

 

And then, by late morning or midday, it starts getting better and remains OK through the afternoon, until it starts deteriorating again after dinner.

 

Not sure why that's been happening, but it's basically happened for the past three days, and was happening similar before that.  Perhaps some breeze is kicking up in the afternoons. Or perhaps is just the timing it takes for the burning area smoke to make its way into BKK... Not sure, but the pattern has been definite.

 

Yea.  When I check below AQI website which shows Bangkok AQI in various locations and for various pollutants as PM2.5 the pollution level can vary greatly over the 24 hour period. 

https://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

 

Like below partial snapshot of the PM2.5 level around the Thonburi Power Plant area in western Bangkok/close to the river.   Over the last 48 hours generally it's worst during the night hours and better during the day hours.  Probably has something to do with less wind at night and being a little cooler at night because cooler air will force PM2.5 particles down from higher up, etc.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I screen captured this yesterday, and have highlighted in the black boxes the trend I mentioned above, involving the afternoons for some reason seeing lower/declining PM2.5 levels, before getting bad again every evening and overnight into the mornings.

 

 

I don't see any clear trend of the winds being stronger in the afternoons, but obviously it gets warmer during those times. So again, don't know if it's weather related or related to the timing of burning activities at their source.

 

But it at least doesn't seem to fit into the argument some make that vehicle emissions are the primary source of the current seasonal smog siege, since overnight and very early mornings tend to see the highest levels during each 24 hour period.

 

Meanwhile, look at the forecast for the week ahead:

 

[balo]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

The inside my home readings were with A/C running

That's too high , you should be able to get it down to 5 - 10 inside your bedroom . I have the same model.  And I do not have any filters installed, only an air purifier from Hitachi on 24/7 . 

An air purifier is very important and recommended. 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

20 hours ago, johng said:

@Pib
Can you see what reading you get after running an aircon (just normal filters) for a few hours...

in my bedroom my reading goes down to as low as 6-9 just by running the aircon overnight,after opening the door and window it goes up quite quickly to (usually) about 40 but I've seen as high as 117...which as you observed decreased as the day wore on.

 

19 hours ago, Pib said:

The inside my home readings were with A/C running....A/C runs 24/7 but I only use an A/C temp setting of 26C and the A/C cools a large area which results in various places around the big area being cooled a little above or below 26C.  Where I took the indoor readings the dectector was on a table top getting lot of sunlight so its a little warmer than 26C.

 

I haven't done a bedroom check yet.  Only run the A/C at night in the bedroom....will be checking that tonight.

 

OK, I did the upstairs bedroom check last night.  The bedroom A/C is only turned on during night/during sleep time (not 24/7 like my downstairs living area).  All readings I talked earlier was the downstairs large area covering 4 adjoining rooms (including the kitchen) which are air conditioned 24/7.

 

Anyway back to the bedroom readings last night.  Took the first reading 9:41pm before turning on the A/C....reading was 21 PM2.5.  Turned the A/C on.   Took another reading at 10:54pm....reading was down a little to 15.  Didn't take the next reading until waking up at 6:30am....reading was 8. 

 

Immediately went downstairs to take a reading in the large, 4 room air conditioned area....got a reading of 19.  This area is also where we enter/exit the house multiple many times per day thru front and back doors...so polluted air has plenty of chance to rush in when we open a door.  Wife had already been in and out several times that morning letting bad air come in.   Different situation were someone lives in a highrise condo type setup where opening your condo front door may just lead to an enclosed hallway which leads to a an elevator/stairs...not directly open to the outside environment.  I immediately went outside to check outdoor PM2.5....reading was 41.

 

So, at 6:30am in the morning my much smaller upstairs bedroom area was at PM2.5 of 8....much larger downstairs areas with door openings to the outside was 19.....and outside reading was 41.  

 

So, in the bedroom the A/C which is approx 50 sq/meters the A/C does pull the PM2.5 down very significantly after a several hours.  Smaller area for the A/C to help filter somewhat plus no doors open directly to the outside....a person must go downstairs to go outside.    However, in my downstairs air conditioned area which is around 150 sq/meters with me and the wife opening the doors numerous times per day to go outside which lets bad air, the PM2.5 stays significantly higher.  Like right now a few minutes before 1pm I get a PM2.5 reading of 21....and we just came home approx 30 minutes ago which results in the front door being opened for a minutes or two as we carried groceries from the car into the house...letting some bad air get in.  Checking the PM2.5 outside the front door and it's 40.  I expect if I the wife and I didn't open any doors for at least 3 to 4 hours (which ain't going to happen) the area would probably pull a significantly lower PM2.5 than around 20.

 

Yeap, many factors can affect the PM2.5 reading "within different areas of your residence, especially a two story house."

 

 

[Pib]

I'm so glad I got the PM2.5 indicator as I know for sure what the PM2.5 pollution is in my particular little part of western Bangkok....in my moobaan versus needing to relay on a pollution reading many kilometers away where the reading could be much higher (or lower).

 

Also, it's good to know what the PM2.5 level is "within" and right outside my home, how it can differ in different parts of my home, being able to measure the results of doing certain things within the home to lower PM2.5, etc.  

 

Yeap, this is one buy I'm really satisfied with (assuming the indicator don't die an early death).

[Jajazazajaja]

What’s the outlook for tomorrow?

 

im supposed to be playing golf 

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

What’s the outlook for tomorrow?

 

im supposed to be playing golf 

Find forecast very inaccurate but for Monday it is 158-173 (same as today) and Tuesday 173-248.  But today has been in double digits during most of daylight hours and that has been a pattern for past week.

[Pib]

38 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

What’s the outlook for tomorrow?

 

im supposed to be playing golf 

If you can see the end of your golf club you are good to go.  If not, stay in the club house and measure how fast you can drink a beer.

[DaveInSukhumvit]

A few comments from a guy that knows some, but not everything.

 

Q1 Pollution: Jan-March is typical pollution season.  Filter inside air (HEPA filter) and outside air (PM2.5 mask).  I have never seen a building in Thailand that has a pollution filter on air (but have not been in operating room).  Wall-mounted AC units have "rock" screen only.  For PM2.5, assume inside air is always same as outside unless you have paper filter.

Home pollution meters & moisture: Humidity makes big difference on pollution readings.  Air conditioned inside reading is same as outside (w/o paper filter)  The difference is that AC removes moisture.  Reference: https://goo.gl/y341r1  The first article is pretty good.  After that it gets into calculus, if you fancy that sort of thing. 

Home meters & calibration: Compare your meter with local readings.  If they are way off, then something is wrong, probably with home meter.  I replaced a sensor in a friends AirVisual meter when the numbers were wrong.  Another friend bought a new 1500 baht unit and everything was in chinese.  I found an online manual translation and got some english but the readings were never accurate.   The SNDWAY square meter looks good, but know that readings show PM2.5 particulate count not AQI (big difference).  I have not played with SNDWAY, maybe there is configuration setting for AQI.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Home meters & calibration: Compare your meter with local readings.  If they are way off, then something is wrong, probably with home meter.  I replaced a sensor in a friends AirVisual meter when the numbers were wrong.  Another friend bought a new 1500 baht unit and everything was in chinese.  

Do you remember the model he got?

 

Hopefully not this one: https://www.lazada.co.th/-i172085377-s307358729.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&spm=spm=a2o4m.order_details.item_title.1

[utalkin2me]

2 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

A few comments from a guy that knows some, but not everything.

 

Q1 Pollution: Jan-March is typical pollution season.  Filter inside air (HEPA filter) and outside air (PM2.5 mask).  I have never seen a building in Thailand that has a pollution filter on air (but have not been in operating room).  Wall-mounted AC units have "rock" screen only.  For PM2.5, assume inside air is always same as outside unless you have paper filter.

Home pollution meters & moisture: Humidity makes big difference on pollution readings.  Air conditioned inside reading is same as outside (w/o paper filter)  The difference is that AC removes moisture.  Reference: https://goo.gl/y341r1  The first article is pretty good.  After that it gets into calculus, if you fancy that sort of thing. 

Home meters & calibration: Compare your meter with local readings.  If they are way off, then something is wrong, probably with home meter.  I replaced a sensor in a friends AirVisual meter when the numbers were wrong.  Another friend bought a new 1500 baht unit and everything was in chinese.  I found an online manual translation and got some english but the readings were never accurate.   The SNDWAY square meter looks good, but know that readings show PM2.5 particulate count not AQI (big difference).  I have not played with SNDWAY, maybe there is configuration setting for AQI.

I know those readings are useful but sure the accuracy is suspect. Just the accusracy of the unots themselves may be in question, but even if you have perfect, cheap handheld units, kinda like trying to measure ocean water temperature, there are going to be pockets of warm and cool all over, it is going to get colder as you go down etc. There are just so many variables. I would think walking around an area and taking 10-20 readings and averaging them would be quite accurate of course. I only made this comment because I saw a few comments here that I thought the readings were suspect, but who knows. 

[DaveInSukhumvit]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Do you remember the model he got?

 

Hopefully not this one: https://www.lazada.co.th/-i172085377-s307358729.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&spm=spm=a2o4m.order_details.item_title.1

The model was not the rectangular SNDWAY unit it was WP6912 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 1/25/2019 at 11:20 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Sadly, it looks like I got my wires crossed and have ordered the below. It is from China and doesn't look like a "real" SNDWAY.

The link you provided is now sold out. Bad luck I guess. Any idea where to get a SNDWAY?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/-i172085377-s307358729.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&spm=spm=a2o4m.order_details.item_title.1

My (possible) fake SNDWAY showed up today after 13 days, but the delivery guy did not allow me to open the shipping packing to verify what model it was, so I didn't take delivery of it. Backward service from Lazada, expecting you to pay for something you can't even see.

[ExpatOilWorker]

To the happy SNDWAY SW-825 owners, how does the below UNI-T A25M measure up?

85 g 60x64x28 mm??

 

The 520 mAh battery is smaller then your 58 mAh battery.

Uni-Trend-Tech-A25M_C118813.pdf

[manchega]

On 1/24/2019 at 7:09 PM, utalkin2me said:

I have been looking at the readings the past few days, but...

 

I thought it would not hurt to ask here, how far south of Bangkok do you guys feel you would have to be to have an appreciable lower level of pollution? Samut Prakan, or much further south than that? 

realise I am late on this, but samut is an industrial estate,  south of hua hin is the way to go.  even hua hin you see pollution haze which the evil powers that be claim to be seasonal mist, but its pollution, seasonal pollution mind

[manchega]

7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

I know those readings are useful but sure the accuracy is suspect. Just the accusracy of the unots themselves may be in question, but even if you have perfect, cheap handheld units, kinda like trying to measure ocean water temperature, there are going to be pockets of warm and cool all over, it is going to get colder as you go down etc. There are just so many variables. I would think walking around an area and taking 10-20 readings and averaging them would be quite accurate of course. I only made this comment because I saw a few comments here that I thought the readings were suspect, but who knows. 

the readings are certainly suspect, particularly those supplied by bureau of environmental control or what ever the latest name is

they have averaged so much yearly data it can't be hidden any more.

readings are high and multiple sources publish averages from all over the city.

 

[at15]

im out in the sticks in isaan my bedroom pm2.5 is around 50 with small purifier and aircon running. what readings are you guys getting?

[lopburi3]

21 minutes ago, at15 said:

im out in the sticks in isaan my bedroom pm2.5 is around 50 with small purifier and aircon running. what readings are you guys getting?

Believe most reports here, in Bangkok, are about what I have seen - if outside pm2.5 is in the 50-80 range inside with with air purifier should be about 10 or below.  Do you have a HEPA type filter and is the filter not too old.  What is the reading in other rooms?  Outside?  Believe you should have better than 50 inside bed room.

 

Edit:  I currently read 7-8 in bedroom with filter running and airconditioner on and nearest reporting station has reading of 65 (AQI 155).

 

 

[at15]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe most reports here, in Bangkok, are about what I have seen - if outside pm2.5 is in the 50-80 range inside with with air purifier should be about 10 or below.  Do you have a HEPA type filter and is the filter not too old.  What is the reading in other rooms?  Outside?  Believe you should have better than 50 inside bed room.

 

 

thats what i thought, it doesnt seem right , air purifier is brand new. the pm2.5 reader is cheap one from china model PML-116 about 700 baht shipped on lazada. it just seems to hangout in the 40's-60's no matter where i take it. waiting for the next wood burning with crap flying everywhere then i can really test if it goes 100+ 

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, at15 said:

thats what i thought, it doesnt seem right , air purifier is brand new. the pm2.5 reader is cheap one from china model PML-116 about 700 baht shipped on lazada. it just seems to hangout in the 40's-60's no matter where i take it. waiting for the next wood burning with crap flying everywhere then i can really test if it goes 100+ 

It might be your meter with that little change if you have used for any time.  Have you tried directly in the air flow from filter?  Would hope for a much lower reading that 40-60.

[at15]

16 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

It might be your meter with that little change if you have used for any time.  Have you tried directly in the air flow from filter?  Would hope for a much lower reading that 40-60.

i think its confirmed garbage unit, its staying 40-50 on top of air filter and taking it outside. which one do you guys trust ? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Home meters & calibration: Compare your meter with local readings.  If they are way off, then something is wrong, probably with home meter.  I replaced a sensor in a friends AirVisual meter when the numbers were wrong.  Another friend bought a new 1500 baht unit and everything was in chinese.  I found an online manual translation and got some english but the readings were never accurate.   The SNDWAY square meter looks good, but know that readings show PM2.5 particulate count not AQI (big difference).  I have not played with SNDWAY, maybe there is configuration setting for AQI.

 

No, the Sndway 825 models don't show AQI, only micrograms of PM2.5 -- which is what I want.

 

There are several different AQI scales out there, the U.S./international one, a different Thai-only one, and maybe even a different Chinese one (not sure about the later).

 

I'd rather my sensor just show me my mcg of PM2.5, and let me decide which AQI I want to go by.

 

PS - Using the U.S./intl AQI, it's not that hard to remember that 12 micrograms is the upper limit of the green/good category for air quality, so that's what I consistently use as my "not to exceed" yardstick at home in terms of how I run my air purifiers.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

It might be your meter with that little change if you have used for any time.  Have you tried directly in the air flow from filter?  Would hope for a much lower reading that 40-60.

 

I'm not familiar with that particular cheapo unit... But some of them (not including the Sndway 825 model) do require manual and periodic calibration in order to provide accurate readings.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As of 10:30 pm tonight in central BKK, my indoor large room with air con and HEPA air purifier running is reading about 9 mcg, which is an AQI of 38 green / good air quality.

 

Outside, the nearest sensors to me are mostly showing 153+ AQI, which is around 60+ mcg. and just into the unhealthy for all/red range.

 

 

[lopburi3]

As a test checked how long Hatari AP-12 on speed 4 at other side of room took to lower readings in 26sm bedroom after air out this morning.  Outside room reading 64mcg and bedroom 40mcg at start time.  Room has 3 doors and one opened twice during below time; one wall ventilation fan but no windows.

0724 40

0733 30

0741 19

0754 12 (green zone AQI)

0800 10

0815 7-8