30 yrs rental contract, ex-wife mortgaged the house to get money !

[JohnnyBKK]

Hello,

 

I can't believe what just happened. I bought a house in the name of my wife (now ex-wife), we have a contract with a lawyer and a 30 yrs rental contract registered at the land department in Hua Hin.

 

It seems like she was able to mortgage the house in Bangkok at the land department... she took over 1 million baht by mortgaging my house ! How is this possible ? I have an official 30 yrs lease. She will never be able to repay the mortgage, what will happen to the house ? Will they take it from me ?

 

Best regards,

[transam]

Think your money bought the house and you have no input into what she wants to do with it...

[JohnnyBKK]

Just now, transam said:

Think your money bought the house and you have no input into what she wants to do with it...

So the 30 yr lease is useless ? seriously ? she can just sell the house to whoever she wants ?

[transam]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyBKK said:

So the 30 yr lease is useless ? seriously ? she can just sell the house to whoever she wants ?

I hope someone more clued up than me can be more specific...As you know you can be a guarantor regarding mortgage payments but the place belongs to her...If she sells it your lease will be taken into consideration by a buyer, but she has not sold it..

 

When you divorced, and if you bought the place whilst married, all that stuff should have been put forward to the divorce folk to sort, to sell the place and give you your 50% AFTER all the stuff she may owe after your marriage...

[jackdd]

I don't know about the Thai laws regarding this, so this is just my assumption: But you have a lease over 30 years, but other than that it's hers. So why should she not be able to sell it? But the buyer (or a bank which sells it because she doesn't pay the mortage) would still have you living there for the next 30 years. So probably nobody wants to buy it, and somehow i doubt a bank would normally give a loan on something like that, so probably she made a false statement when she applied for the mortage.

And as always: Just invest in Thailand what you can afford to lose.

[ukrules]

If it's a proper registered lease (usufruct) then that should still be valid for the full 30 year period so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

If she doesn't repay a secured loan then they will take it off her (the property) but your lease will still be valid - assuming it's all registered with the land department, etc. In my opinion you would probably be better off with the bank owning it for the next 30 years or however long is left on the lease than your ex.

 

From what I've heard banks will lend against a lease encumbered property but it will be a greatly reduced amount compared to what you would be able to borrow without the lease being present.

 

If I were you I'd double check that the 30 year lease is all registered and above board at the land department.

 

If it's just an informal lease then you're screwed.

Edited January 26, 2018 by ukrules

[Khun Jean]

Nothing to worry about. You have a lease contract and it is registered, right! Sure? Double sure?

When in doubt go check it at the land office.

I hoped the contract mentioned you paid everything in advance.

If above is in order then you can just use it until the lease is finished.

 

The new owner has to respect the contract. The amount that she can get is a lot lower because of the rental contract.

 

She got money for HER house. Don't misunderstand that. And she is free to do that. Maybe she will also insist on renovating and expanding it with some extra rooms to rent out. 

 

[electric]

OP .... not sure the Land Dept gave your ex a mortgage. The 1 million baht mortgage surely would've been with a bank. The Land Dept would have just notarised the Chanote that there is now a mortgage over the property.

 

Also, your original registered lease would have been notarised on the back of the Chanote as well, for all to see. (hopefully you did this)

 

If the bank forecloses, and tries to sell the property, prospective buyers will see that the property "comes with a resident farang for 30 years"

 

This may not be a problem for investor buyers, who are looking for a long term renter anyway, but will almost certainly turn away a buyer looking to live there.

 

And yes, I agree with other posters. The Chanote (title deed) is in your ex's name alone, so she has the right to mortgage or sell if she desires.

 

 

[473geo]

This is the classic stalemate that arrives from a Thai partner taking a loan on the property

The bank has the deeds, you have a 30 year lease on a property if you choose to live there! Or of course you could repay the loan. Then she can borrow again.

 

30 year lease not really worth the bother in my opinion, but some guys appear to think it provides something

[Khun Jean]

Well, he has the lease. A lease that lowers the value of the house substantially when someone wish to sell it. The lease is thus worth a rather big amount.

And he still has the right. So i would say, well done!.

 

[ukrules]

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

30 year lease not really worth the bother in my opinion, but some guys appear to think it provides something

It does provide something, 30 years of possession regardless of who owns it.

Edited January 26, 2018 by ukrules

[473geo]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

It does provide something, 30 years of possession regardless of who owns it.

Whoopee...... you can rent this house you used to 'own' with your wife for the next 30 years

Just to remind you every single day what might have been......

 

Yep that's the life alright - that showed 'em

[transam]

The "free" bird has a mil in her pocket and the OP keeps paying the mortguage, is another mil on the cards for the bird in the near future...?

[maprao]

At least you have a 30 year lease so regardless who owns it you have the lease registered against the Chanote.

Again problems can rear their ugly head in Thailand when you least expect it. 20 years happy then when all the kids have grown up (her kids) then the end game can be played...

 

Check the lease is still in place against the chanote with Land Office relax and do not bail her out with the loan payments. I wish you the best of luck

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

Whoopee...... you can rent this house you used to 'own' with your wife for the next 30 years

Just to remind you every single day what might have been......

 

Yep that's the life alright - that showed 'em

 

You never at any point in time owned it. There's no rent to pay as that would normally be settled on day 1 for the entire period.

 

I would think of it as paying 30 years rent in one go, you can stay for the full 30 years or abandon it - you still have it for the duration.

 

In reality it doesn't really matter which Thai national holds the deed if you have a proper 30 year lease on it, especially if you suspect you won't be around for the full 30 years.

 

 

[Khun Jean]

It does depend who holds the deed. If it is your spouse it can actually be voided. Something to keep quiet about. But if she has a good lawyer it will be done.

Better have a lease with someone else then your spouse.

 

[473geo]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

 

You never at any point in time owned it. There's no rent to pay as that would normally be settled on day 1 for the entire period.

 

I would think of it as paying 30 years rent in one go, you can stay for the full 30 years or abandon it - you still have it for the duration.

 

In reality it doesn't really matter which Thai national holds the deed if you have a proper 30 year lease on it, especially if you suspect you won't be around for the full 30 years.

 

 

Sure op never owned it, he bought a home, for him and his wife, you know a home, to share in their enjoyable future together......

She has gone..... he can if he wishes live there rent free...for 30 years as a daily reminder as to what might have been..........whoopee

 

Better for you?

 

[beavercreek]

If the bank takes it back, they would be entitled to all rents due but as long as you clearly prepaid it, then that would just go on her tab.  Occupied REO is quite common.

[madmax2]

The way i understand the law if the lease is registered you can live there for the full 30 years or until you expire/die

[beavercreek]

I did it once, with a lease, and was under the impression my heirs would get the lease, but that is not the case with a usufruct.  I don't agree with using usufruct because foreigners are not using it for the purposes intended.  What a rogue land office official will do is up to them

[ThaidDown]

When you got the 30 year lease were you and your (ex)wife married ?

 

If not then the 30 year lease is safe. If you concluded the lease agreement whilst married then there would appear to be a problem.

 

Under the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (section 1469) any agreement between husband and wife can be voided by either party at any time up to one after the divorce date. A lease is such an agreement.

 

(as an aside, a Usufruct granted by one party to another may or may not be considered such an agreement. I do not beleive that the Supreme court has ruled on such a case so depends on interpretaion by lawyers and, more importantly, judges. I know of cases that have had different outcomes)

 

Did you have a prenup or was any rights to this property covered in the divorce agreement.?

 

You definately need legal advice fast.

 

[Khun Jean]

Sometimes it is better to keep quiet about these things. And try to keep a good relationship.

ANY contract between husband and wife needs to be resolved when divorcing as the whole goal of divorcing is to have no ties together.

Compensation must be offered, or exchanged for other shared possessions. OR it can be agreed upon between parties that certain things do not have to be compensated. (Like you keep the car, i'll keep the lease sort of thing). In this case it would be 'You own the house, i keep the lease".

Most people don't know about it so keeping quiet is a good strategy.

 

[giddyup]

59 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Whoopee...... you can rent this house you used to 'own' with your wife for the next 30 years

Just to remind you every single day what might have been......

 

Yep that's the life alright - that showed 'em

But he's not "renting" it, he's living there free for the 30 years.

[tonray]

As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent a foreigner from giving a (mortgage) loan to a Thai. So a better level of protection might be to loan the money to the wife and get a 30 year lease as consideration to reside in the property. Every month, the balance of the loan could be reduced by the imputed value of the lease rental. So, yes she still owns the home but you also have some control over the loan.

 

If house is sold, balance of loan must be paid off before deal closes. Lease and loan terminate concurrently. Otherwise the documents the Land Office makes both spouses sign dictate that no matter who provided the cash, the Thai spouse owns the home and can control it. 

 

 

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

But he's not "renting" it, he's living there free for the 30 years.

He paid 30 years of rent up front. He is renting.

[473geo]

Just now, tonray said:

He paid 30 years of rent up front. He is renting.

Thanks but all the 30 year usufruct champions must convince themselves he is on a winner

 

Otherwise why bother

 

Usufruct

 

"the right to enjoy the use and advantages of another's property"

 

Fanbluddytastic

[worgeordie]

I have a friend,bought a house in his wife's name,many years ago,

unbeknown to him,she mortgaged it for 800,000 and lend the cash 

out to her relations ,hoping to get interest off them,yes,you know

what happened,they stopped paying after couple of months.

 

No repayments were made off the mortgage,so now the bank

is about to  repossess the property,he could pay off the loan,

but is not going to, he's over 80 years,and says if he did she

might do it again,so expect him to be renting for last few years

he has left,that's what can happen if you get a bad'in,only good

thing,there will be nothing for her,when he pops off.

regards worgeordie

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

He paid 30 years of rent up front. He is renting.

I don't see it that way. He bought a house for his wife and himself, but in her name. The 30 years is just to give the falang a bit of protection if things go south, as in this case. I also have a 30 year lease, but I don't see anywhere where it says that the rent has been paid in advance for 30 years.

[tonray]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

I don't see it that way. He bought a house for his wife and himself, but in her name. The 30 years o is just to give the falang a bit of protection if things go south, as in this case. I also have a 30 year lease, but I don't see anywhere where it says that the rent has been paid in advance for 30 years.

Why would someone lease a property to someone for free ?

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

Why would someone lease a property to someone for free ?

In my case it was the only way I would have bought a house in her name. I imagine that's a pretty good incentive.