EU offers Brexit transition, but UK must 'accept rules'

[dick dasterdly]

12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The fact that the EU has to bully countries into staying in is as good a reason as any to leave. Can't you see where this whole EU thing is headed?

"The fact that the EU has to bully countries into staying in is as good a reason as any to leave."

 

Exactly.  There is clearly something seriously wrong with the institution when it needs to frighten member states into remaining a member....

 

If the EU had put as much effort into reforming the various, disliked aspects - brexit would probably never have happened.

 

And little has changed .

 

Instead of self-reform (so that the voters in member states have little to complain about and see the EU as an example for others to follow), they have made it very clear that reform is the last item on the agenda.  Clearly it suits their interests better to to frighten voters as to the punitive measures inflicted if a member state ( or more accurately, the electorate....) has the temerity to dare leave ..

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not that old chestnut. The common market has gone. Lots of other freeloaders (countries) are in the EU now. I would disagree that the UK want to remain longer, it is the politicians who do, self preserving their own interests and not doing what the people voted for.

I largely agree, but wasn't keen on various aspects of the 'common market' either....

 

e.g. overpaid eurocrats and their accompanying (moving between two cities...) overpaid admin staff/'wine lakes', 'butter mountains' and the like to keep prices artificially high.  etc. etc.

[Orac]

UK have agreed no such thing, are you baiting and trolling ???????
 
And of course they are worried about alienating the British because they want them to change their mind about leaving but it seems they have underestimated the resolve of the British and actually pissed them off even more - there is now anger not just sentiment to leave
 
keep the feet for dancing 

Not baiting or trolling at all.

We have triggered Art 50 and will leave the EU in March next year - to have any expectation of being involved in making EU laws after that point is a ridiculous idea. We had asked for a transition deal giving us access to the EU markets for an addition 2 years and, quite clearly, to do this meant accepting their rules- they have offered slightly less than this but the day they are working towards does fit in better with EU budget and also our commitments to it so not really a bone of contention. They have also said there is no problem with us negotiating with third parties during this period.

There is a very obvious answer if our requirement is to keep our institutional involvement with the EU during this transition period which is to extend the Art 50 period but this is politically difficult to do.

Also we have the option of not taking a transition deal and facing the consequences that brings head on - a choice not without merit since inevitably the U.K. will get back on track in the long term and the sooner we get there the better.




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[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Not baiting or trolling at all.

We have triggered Art 50 and will leave the EU in March next year - to have any expectation of being involved in making EU laws after that point is a ridiculous idea. We had asked for a transition deal giving us access to the EU markets for an addition 2 years and, quite clearly, to do this meant accepting their rules- they have offered slightly less than this but the day they are working towards does fit in better with EU budget and also our commitments to it so not really a bone of contention. They have also said there is no problem with us negotiating with third parties during this period.

There is a very obvious answer if our requirement is to keep our institutional involvement with the EU during this transition period which is to extend the Art 50 period but this is politically difficult to do.

Also we have the option of not taking a transition deal and facing the consequences that brings head on - a choice not without merit since inevitably the U.K. will get back on track in the long term and the sooner we get there the better.




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Agree entirely that the UK should have no role in future EU laws, having declared that it is leaving.

 

I disagree that during the transition period the UK should have to accept the open borders policy.  Loss of vote in exchange for cancellation of open borders for 'newcomers' sounds fair enough to me.

 

The UK has already agreed (?) to pay an extortionate sum to leave, and presumably will keep paying the annual fee during the transition period.

 

The deliberate mistake was made (IMO), by agreeing to pay to leave - when remaining and paying dues until the end of the budget period would have been the obvious choice, whilst making clear that those who entered after article 50 was enacted would have no right to stay.

[Orac]

Agree entirely that the UK should have no role in future EU laws, having declared that it is leaving.
 
I disagree that during the transition period the UK should have to accept the open borders policy.  Loss of vote in exchange for cancellation of open borders for 'newcomers' sounds fair enough to me.
 
The UK has already agreed (?) to pay an extortionate sum to leave, and presumably will keep paying the annual fee during the transition period.
 
The deliberate mistake was made (IMO), by agreeing to pay to leave - when remaining and paying dues until the end of the budget period would have been the obvious choice, whilst making clear that those who entered after article 50 was enacted would have no right to stay.

The free movement of people is a political issue rather than one of fairness - the EU has set its stall out that the four freedoms are indivisible so is never going formally agree to dropping one of them even for a transition. Same as the issue the UK govt has where it can’t politically ask for an extension to Art 50 and wants a transition which is effectively the same thing minus the representation in EU institutions.


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[smedly]

2 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Not baiting or trolling at all.

We have triggered Art 50 and will leave the EU in March next year - to have any expectation of being involved in making EU laws after that point is a ridiculous idea. We had asked for a 



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I agree

 

but just as equally ridiculous is to expect the UK to adhere to EU Immigration Rules -  3rd party Trading - and EU courts, they really are taking the piss

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

 

The free movement of people is a political issue rather than one of fairness - the EU has set its stall out that the four freedoms are indivisible so is never going formally agree to dropping one of them even for a transition. 


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Then we walk and then there are no rules

 

honestly I think you are trolling and baiting, I have replied to you twice, my point is clear don't bother replying 

Edited January 31, 2018 by smedly

[Orac]

Then we walk and then there are no rules
 
honestly I think you are trolling and baiting, I have replied to you twice, my point is clear don't bother replying 

That was my reply to someone else - feel free to put me on ignore if you can’t handle debate and insist on making it personal and accusing me of baiting and trolling you.


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[smedly]

4 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

That was my reply to someone else - feel free to put me on ignore if you can’t handle debate and insist on making it personal and accusing me of baiting and trolling you.


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if you want to have an individual conversation out of public view (not with me) then go do that, everything you put on this forum is shared with everyone and is open to criticism 

[Orac]

if you want to have an individual conversation out of public view (not with me) then go do that, everything you put on this forum is shared with everyone and is open to criticism 

Isn’t that exactly what I was doing, discussing an on topic issue with Dick Dasterdly on the open forum. Feel free to criticise my point and you are welcome to accuse me of trolling and baiting, my skin is thick enough, but why you think I don’t have the right of reply is beyond me.


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