Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[tebee]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Most of those 'experts' were employees of financial institutions/media and the like.

 

They were hardly likely to lose their job or reputation as a result of supporting their employers' cause!

but their employers are hardly likely to get them to not support something if it was going to be a wild success and they could make more money , much more likely to be happy with them pointing out problems that could cause them to lose  money ? 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

The modern expert appears to be someone that is paid huge sums of money to cast an opinion and make a prediction. They are then paid more huge sums of money to explain the underlying factors and trends that caused their prediction to be completely wrong ….. nice work if you can get it

 

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If we were talking one or two people willing to whore out their reputations for cash, then that may be plausible, but to suggest that the overwhelming majority of people who are considered experts in their field are shilling for, well, a shilling seems a bit naive. 

 

I don't know any reknowned economists personally, but I suspect that, in the main, their egos are no less fragile than the rest of us; would they all be willing to potentially be proven wrong simply for short term gain?

Most of those 'experts' were employees of financial institutions or the media.  Have any of them lost their job as a result of their predictions being entirely incorrect?

 

Of course not.  As Eloquent Pilgrim points out, they came up with "underlying factors and trends that caused their prediction to be completely wrong".....

 

They supported their employers and their own beliefs (as part of the elite), and when proven wrong, came out with excuses.

 

Edit - But they keep on trying ?.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[The Renegade]

Quote

The CBI and the TUC, along with their European counterparts, are calling on the government and the European Union to make "measureable progress".

 

UK and EU leaders will attend a European Council meeting this week.

 

The groups say the UK and the EU must "put economic interests and people's jobs, rights and livelihoods first".

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44574865

 

Not likely to happen.

 

The EU cannot allow this to happen. No way can the UK be let loose from the EU's strings in case it goes on to be successful in its own right.

 

Too big a can of worms to be allowed to happen.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

but their employers are hardly likely to get them to not support something if it was going to be a wild success and they could make more money

But they are not going to make more money if Brexit is successfully and they have already bailed out.

 

It should be apparent to a blind man, that business is more than happy with the status quo, sadly for them, businesses do not have a vote.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Only the completely ignorant folk from those countries, the educated folk know that leaving would mean a banking collapse and decades of poverty.

Maybe you could explain to the under 25’s in those countries how things could possibly get any worse, with youth unemployment at:

 

Greece   42.3%

Spain      35%

Italy         31.7%

Portugal  21.3%

 

You can even throw in France at 21.5%

 

Germany, by the way, 6.1% …… hmmmmmm

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It should be apparent to a blind man, that business is more than happy with the status quo, sadly for them, businesses do not have a vote.

Business own the entire Conservative Party, how many more votes do you think they should have?

[RuamRudy]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Most of those 'experts' were employees of financial institutions/media and the like.

 

They were hardly likely to lose their job or reputation as a result of supporting their employers' cause!

That's some Farage level duplicity you are suggesting there - with the big difference being that Farage has been show to have been duplicitous when he lied to the nation in preparation for his buddies to manipulate the currency markets. But hey, you want to trust these people, go ahead. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44574865

 

Not likely to happen.

 

The EU cannot allow this to happen. No way can the UK be let loose from the EU's strings in case it goes on to be successful in its own right.

 

Too big a can of worms to be allowed to happen.

I'm not sure about this.

 

It depends on whether or not the uk govt. is prepared to start fighting for the best possible deal, and similarly whether the eu is prepared to start looking for a trade deal.  We keep forgetting that the eu is just an 'entity' - but it consists of individual countries that also need a trade deal with the uk.

 

The uk govt. has to contend with the electorate, whilst the eu has to contend with the individual countries - that need a trade deal with the uk.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm not sure about this.

 

It depends on whether or not the uk govt. is prepared to start fighting for the best possible deal, and similarly whether the eu is prepared to start looking for a trade deal.  We keep forgetting that the eu is just an 'entity' - but it consists of individual countries that also need a trade deal with the uk.

 

The uk govt. has to contend with the electorate, whilst the eu has to contend with the individual countries - that need a trade deal with the uk.

You may well be correct of course.

 

However

 

Quote

Theresa May’s plan to protect British industry by keeping the UK in a single market for goods without respecting the free movement of people after Brexit will be rejected by an “angry” France and Germany, despite some sympathy within the EU to Downing Street’s cause, Spain’s foreign minister has said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/france-and-germany-will-block-mays-single-market-plan-says-spain

 

So I think that the time for delusion is over. Time to face facts and get on with leaving.

 

Nothing but nothing is good enough for the EU, unless it ties the UK to Brussels, the ECJ and the UK handing over vasts amounts of money to fund it.

[dick dasterdly]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

That's the only sensible way forward, if indeed we have to go down this sheep track of a road in the first place. Ideology....I can't get past the idea that Brexit has become a religion for many and the name Jim Jones keeps popping into my head.

"Ideology....I can't get past the idea that Brexit has become a religion for many"

 

I know what you mean, but think the same is true of remainers.

 

Sadly, far too few people bother to use their brain - preferring to rely on whatever they are being 'fed' by their chosen source of propaganda. ☹️

 

As it turns out (IMO), the poor finally realised that their interests were not being represented by the eu (or uk- hence the 'protest' voters).

 

On the other hand, the remainers are 'led' by the media and have no idea how tough things are in the poor areas.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

Must admit that my 'pet hate' is those that can't be bothered to use their brain - and rely on media for their opinions...

[Laughing Gravy]

44 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Only the completely ignorant folk from those countries, the educated folk know that leaving would mean a banking collapse and decades of poverty.

So what you are saying the that working classes, the ones that actually work and have tried with the EU and it is not working are ignorant and those that are the... more affluent classes getting all the benefits of the EU are.. well right. Even if what you are saying was true which I think it isn't. Can't the masses of people who have a democratic vote and opinion be entitled to see how it goes from those superior minority (Possibly better educated with a university degree) especially as there life has gone down the drain with the wonderful educated folk who are clinging on to the EU and its policies. A bit like a captain of a ship who has a big whole in the hull and is sinking but keeps saying, we will be OK, I am the captain.

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You may well be correct of course.

 

However

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/france-and-germany-will-block-mays-single-market-plan-says-spain

 

So I think that the time for delusion is over. Time to face facts and get on with leaving.

 

Nothing but nothing is good enough for the EU, unless it ties the UK to Brussels, the ECJ and the UK handing over vasts amounts of money to fund it.

I understand the point you are making, but the eu has to deal with the individual eu countries that are likely demanding a trade deal with the uk?

[dick dasterdly]

To look on the bright side, at least we can have an intelligent conversation amongst ourselves - without the remainers endless obscurifcations!

Edited June 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I understand the point you are making, but the eu has to deal with the individual eu countries that are likely demanding a trade deal with the uk?

You would be correct if there was any legs in the rumour that the EU is a club of equal members.

 

That is not the case and Germany & France are at the top of the tree with every other EU Country cascading downwards.

 

Quote

Merkel, Macron meet to plot euro zone reform road map

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-france/merkel-macron-meet-to-plot-euro-zone-reform-road-map-idUSL8N1RV559

 

I thought there was 19 Countries in the EZ 

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Business own the entire Conservative Party, how many more votes do you think they should have?

Business "own" all parties....

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You would be correct if there was any legs in the rumour that the EU is a club of equal members.

 

That is not the case and Germany & France are at the top of the tree with every other EU Country cascading downwards.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-france/merkel-macron-meet-to-plot-euro-zone-reform-road-map-idUSL8N1RV559

 

I thought there was 19 Countries in the EZ 

Nonetheless, I'm sure even the wealthy country' eu companies are looking for a trade deal with the uk.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

I don't trust the uk govt. as far as I can throw them, which is why I think the uk govt. is looking for a brexit that isn't a brexit.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44574865

 

Not likely to happen.

 

The EU cannot allow this to happen. No way can the UK be let loose from the EU's strings in case it goes on to be successful in its own right.

 

Too big a can of worms to be allowed to happen.

But as I keep saying, if we and the EU don't do something,the default is we are cast adrift on our own in 9 months to sink or swim. It's just we don't seem at all prepared for this?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nonetheless, I'm sure even the wealthy country' companies are looking for a trade deal with the uk.

Of course.

 

But then you have the problem of

 

1. Is the EU Institutions obsolete or are National Parliaments obsolete. The whole mess is caused by having both.

 

2. Too much has been invested in propping up the € by the wealthy Countries, that any deviation could cause its complete demise, which would be quickly followed by the complete demise of the EU.

 

And as much as I rip the EU Institutions, they are very much between a rock and a hard place also. They are not going to agree to anything that is potentially going to kill their gravy train.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

But as I keep saying, if we and the EU don't do something,the default is we are cast adrift on our own in 9 months to sink or swim. It's just we don't seem at all prepared for this?

tebee, can you swim ? Stop panicking.

 

Quote

It's just we don't seem at all prepared for this?

Good to know that you have direct access to the Government and Civil Service and are totally up to speed with what is going on behind the scenes.

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by The Renegade

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nonetheless, I'm sure even the wealthy country' eu companies are looking for a trade deal with the uk.

 

 

Everyone does know it will all turn out OK (don't they).... there are too many vested interests for any alternative.

[tebee]

Just now, The Renegade said:

tebee, can you swim ? Stop panicking.

 

 

No - can I panic now please ?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, tebee said:

But as I keep saying, if we and the EU don't do something,the default is we are cast adrift on our own in 9 months to sink or swim. It's just we don't seem at all prepared for this?

I agree.  Why on earth isn't the uk govt. preparing for an exit?....

 

Points on a postcard please.... ?

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

tebee, can you swim ? Stop panicking.

 

 

 

 

 

He can't...... he thrives on panicking.

 

 

Your words are, sadly, like water off a duck's ar5e..

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

No - can I panic now please ?

 

 

You can have my life jacket....... I won't need it.

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

You would be correct if there was any legs in the rumour that the EU is a club of equal members.

 

That is not the case and Germany & France are at the top of the tree with every other EU Country cascading downwards.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-france/merkel-macron-meet-to-plot-euro-zone-reform-road-map-idUSL8N1RV559

 

I thought there was 19 Countries in the EZ 

But German and French companies also need a trade deal with the uk.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.  Why on earth isn't the uk govt. preparing for an exit?....

 

Points on a postcard please.... ?

Two  possible theories.

 

1. It's just totally incompetent.

 

2. It knows we are not really going to exit. 

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Two  possible theories.

 

1. It's just totally incompetent.

 

2. It knows we are not really going to exit. 

Or alternatively

 

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Good to know that you have direct access to the Government and Civil Service and are totally up to speed with what is going on behind the scenes.

There is a whole raft of things going on that the public are not aware of.

[tebee]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nonetheless, I'm sure even the wealthy country' eu companies are looking for a trade deal with the uk.

But they can't make individual deals - otherwise the customs union would be meaningless.