Pattaya expat threatened with jail after posting negative restaurant review online

[dutchweller]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The truth is not a defence in the Thai legal system. My policy is to say nothing, and not go back.

Wrong

Truth is indeed a defense

See 

Criminal Code

Defamation (Sections 326-333)

Section 330. Truth as a Defense

 

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-defamation-sections-326-333/

 

 

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, travelman6 said:

Join Tripadvisor and put our review there. I guess there is no such thing as free speech in Thailand.

Correct. Never really has been and only getting worse. 

[Jingthing]

I just got info that the review that I thought was the issue actually wasn't. 

In any case, I'm happy I brought up the issue that I did.

I don't think it's cool to post public reviews where you personally insult people working in businesses that can be specifically identified. 

In other words --

"The roast was served lukewarm." OK

"The redhead smelly fat pig owner farted in my face while trying to up sell me on my wine order." NOT OK even if true

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[wedders]

54 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hi there,

 

A member kindly provided me a CLUE about what the offending review might have been. I'm not sure so take this with a groan of salt.

 

Anyway, based on my reading of what MIGHT be the offending review, I can better understand why the owner would be pissed off. I'm not condoning or approving any lawsuits over reviews of course, but the thing that struck me as crossing a line was getting into posting unfavorable impressions about the personality/character of the owner in a personal way.

 

That is something I would hope people would avoid in restaurant reviews. It's one thing saying the service was really slow but to get personal and insulting about a specific person whose identity is easily known is another. I would certainly avoid doing that online and it's something that I would consider a post that should be removed and reported if it happens on this forum (which, BTW, it has).

 

Just my two cents and quite possibly barking up the wrong tree because I don't have confirmation that what I'm commenting on was the thing. 

 

Cheers 

This is how misrepresentations and misunderstandings arise (while acknowledging you accept you might be barking up the wrong tree) ?

 

As admin on Thailand Wine And Dine where the same review was posted, with copies of all reviews kept including those subsequently deleted, I have to point out that ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF THE OWNER OF THE RESTAURANT WAS MADE IN THE REVIEW. I cannot emphasise this enough. Which bearing in mind the fact that the owner wasn't in the restaurant at the time and the poster hadn't met him before makes complete sense. 

 

I cannot speak to comments below the main post on the BC, where ranting and raving mostly goes uncensored unlike on TWD. But knowing the OP personally I can confirm that this is simply not his style.

[Jingthing]

So it was the same restaurant but not about the comment about the owner that came later? 

Getting warmer? 

 

If someone that knows the actual restaurant can please tell me the name in a PM. Clearly Wedders doesn't want to. I would never post the name on any forum. I just want to know and I've already explained why. I certainly wouldn't boycott a place based on the situation or favor a boycotts if I like their food. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[wedders]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

So it was the same restaurant but not about the comment about the owner that came later? 

I know you're not into FB but groups work almost the same as threads on TV. A member publishes a new topic under which other members are free to post what they wish, depending on how strict the moderation policy is. 

 

I can only comment on the review proper in the original post by the diner himself. All manner of comments may have followed from any other member on the BC virtually uncontrolled as usual on that group, that's a separate issue. On TWD we do our utmost to delete personal attacks and regular offenders are banned.

[Jingthing]

Honestly, these FB groups sound overly SNOBBY and "faux exclusive" for my tastes and I'm sure the feeling would be mutual and I wouldn't be welcome there (not applying either).

 

But as someone very interested in the food scene here, I still want to know the name of the darn restaurant!

 

So here it goes, who do you have to blow torch a fancy dessert for to get the freakin' name! 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[wedders]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Honestly, these FB groups sound overly SNOBBY and "faux exclusive" for my tastes and I'm sure the feeling would be mutual and I wouldn't be welcome there (not applying either).

 

But as someone very interested in the food scene here, I still want to know the name of the darn restaurant!

 

So here it goes, who do you have to blow torch a fancy dessert for to get the freakin' name! 

Jingthing if you can survive TV, you can survive any FB group going! ?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, wedders said:

Jingthing if you can survive TV, you can survive any FB group going! ?

Sure thing.

Anyone?

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[Doug Jane]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, based on my reading of what MIGHT be the offending review, I can better understand why the owner would be pissed off. I'm not condoning or approving any lawsuits over reviews of course, but the thing that struck me as crossing a line was getting into posting unfavorable impressions about the personality/character of the owner in a personal way.

What about if the owner was a complete and total git, who was disrespectful and insulting in his dealings with his customers, whilst serving crappy food, then abused the customers for complaining about it.?

 

of course, not knowing what you read, which might have been the review, it’s hard to know, but if the above holds true, then reviewing the owners or employees would be appropriate

 

i would go further, and point out that real companies, who issue surveys for clients to review their service, do in fact seek feedback on their employees, because these same employees, impact either positively or negatively, on the companies business

 

if I had employees that were damaging my business reputation (reputation is all), then I would want them working for the competition... 

 

that said.... if it can be shown that the reviewer was doing a negative review maliciously (for financial gain vs because he/ she was aggrieved by bad service)... then fine... legal action would be appropriate, I suppose

 

unfortunately, with a lack of detail, posters could be excused for assuming the worst, regards someone intent on enacting defamation laws in Thailand.

 

bottom line... naming and shaming protects the consumer, in a lot of cases, especially in a land of scams, such as this

[Jingthing]

As a foreigner living in Thailand, my feeling is that we have no choice but to accept Thai laws as they are. We're subject to them and we have no say in potentially changing them. Of course, we don't have to like them! If we can't live with some laws, we all know where the airport is. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[balo]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Ah hah! If you want to know the truth, get a Dark Side sniffer dog on it.

I now know (totally by conincidence on where I got invited tonight), the restaurant involved and trust me, the issue is not with their food cos it is exceptionally good.

And, yes, I have been there before, so this was not a one off, or miraculous improvement.

I actually earlier in this thread suggested the food might be crap and they should work on it. Ooops!

When you see the CCTV of it all absolutely nothing seems amiss. Then a mysterious post appears that differs somewhat in its description of everything.

The restaurateur involved freely admits he was OTT in suggesting legal action, though it is also suggested the poster concerned runs a very similar genre of business, so possibly all was not as above board as we have been led to believe.

No, I am not naming it. It does seem from video evidence though that there are two sides to every story. It is now up to you what to believe.

Good , is it located on the dark side ? I have probably never been there then . 

 

 

 

[chickenslegs]

I'm sure this restaurant must have had positive reviews in the past. Anyone got a link to one of them?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

I'm sure this restaurant must have had positive reviews in the past. Anyone got a link to one of them?

Cheeky. Won't work.

It's already determined it won't be OK to post the name of the restaurant here. 

But I think informing people VIA PM is still OK. 

Anyone?

Hook a brother up, will ya? 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Cheeky. Won't work.

It's already determined it won't be OK to post the name of the restaurant here. 

But I think informing people VIA PM is still OK. 

Anyone?

Hook a brother up, will ya? 

 

So Jing, where you going to go for your next Hit and Run Pattaya restaurant review???

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So Jing, where you going to go for your next Hit and Run Pattaya restaurant review???

I never give warning! 

[torrzent]

9 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

The Brits love their mint sauce to lamb; a total No No on the continent. The Germans need sauce to everything, including breaded schnitzel with fries. The Swiss like their salad as a starter followed by a main course; the Irish like salad and main course together.

Could you have picked 4 worse examples of cuisine?

[torrzent]

9 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

while I had the very best Paccheri on a tomato sauce to die for - at more than THB 500.

Unless you were handmaking the pasta, 500 thb is way over the top! 

Edited March 28, 2018 by torrzent

[tropo]

2 hours ago, pistachios said:

Nothing in your several posts was indicating you were joking. And then in a following post you said "nothing is forcing someone to write a bad review on the internet" which is baffling coming from someone born in a country with freedom of speech. Would have made sense coming from that idiotic restaurant owner.

So you were serious when you thought I owned a Pizza restaurant? LOL> That's hilarious. 

 

It doesn't matter where you're from, when you know the laws in a country where you've taken up residence, you work with them irrespective of whether you like them or not. You don't have free speech here, live with it or leave. Having said that, there's no such thing as free speech anywhere. There are always consequences if your tongue gets too loose.

[torrzent]

32 minutes ago, tropo said:

So you were serious when you thought I owned a Pizza restaurant? LOL> That's hilarious. 

 

It doesn't matter where you're from, when you know the laws in a country where you've taken up residence, you work with them irrespective of whether you like them or not. You don't have free speech here, live with it or leave. Having said that, there's no such thing as free speech anywhere. There are always consequences if your tongue gets too loose.

Sounds like you may have "cheesed" off the kneady fellow by giving him a slice of your doughy humour and a pizza yer mind,  but I still believe in your crustworthiness.  Rather than letting the situation mushroom out of control, you should pepper him with olive branches so he can arrive at an extra supreme take away.

Edited March 28, 2018 by torrzent

[Sydebolle]

1 hour ago, torrzent said:

Unless you were handmaking the pasta, 500 thb is way over the top! 

Look up Paccheri - then you‘ll understand 8-) 

[ostyan]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:18 PM, seancbk said:

 

My money would be on the restaurant owner being a Farang, not a Thai.

Maybe 55555 Anyhow, farang should be sentenced.

[atyclb]

could it be the restaurant in jomtien that is supposed to be in a rotating tower?  have seriously poor tripadvisor food reviews but a nice view.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Look up Paccheri - then you‘ll understand 8-) 

I know the pasta but don't understand why it would be priced at a super premium cost. I would if stuffed with something expensive but didn't the guy just described tomato sauce?

 

So tell us. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[pistachios]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

So you were serious when you thought I owned a Pizza restaurant? LOL> That's hilarious. 

 

It doesn't matter where you're from, when you know the laws in a country where you've taken up residence, you work with them irrespective of whether you like them or not. You don't have free speech here, live with it or leave. Having said that, there's no such thing as free speech anywhere. There are always consequences if your tongue gets too loose.

Hahahahahah.

Hilarious.

You must be fun at parties.

 

As I said, nothing indicated in your posts that you were joking, when you twice answered that it was indeed your restaurant, and then after when you defended the despicable action of the restaurant owner.

 

I really feel sorry for you if you think giving an honest opinion of a restaurant is something you should not do. 

[GAZZPA]

Got to be the biggest mistake that restaurant ever makes. What on earth are they doing?! 

 

What they should be doing is apologising to the customer for his bad experience, address the problem and invite him back for free meal, simple.

 

Now everyone wants to know who they are just so they can avoid going.

 

I have a business and I have been through problems, we cannot always make everyone happy all the time. But the most important thing is fix, learn and move on. 

 

I dare say the name of the place is already out there.

 

 

[InfinityandBeyond]

1 hour ago, GAZZPA said:

Got to be the biggest mistake that restaurant ever makes. What on earth are they doing?! 

 

What they should be doing is apologising to the customer for his bad experience, address the problem and invite him back for free meal, simple.

 

Now everyone wants to know who they are just so they can avoid going.

 

I have a business and I have been through problems, we cannot always make everyone happy all the time. But the most important thing is fix, learn and move on. 

 

I dare say the name of the place is already out there.

 

 

Agreed. First rule in hospitality/F&B  industry, is "the customer is always right" even if they may be wrong. Usually a comp of some sort does the trick. It is a tough and competitive business. Reputation is everything. Not sure what this proprietor was thinking. He has done more damage to his business than the negative review IMHO. Recently ordered a filet mignon and was served a pork chop. I alerted the staff and the proprietor quickly came out and offered a free steak. I mentioned it was no problem with the chop but only to make sure the bill was adjusted accordingly. We were comped coffee and dessert and a free Sunday roast on the next visit. It was too much for a simple mistake, but showed to me the proprietor's commitment to maintaining his reputation. The pork chop was delicious and so was the Sunday roast. Needless to say, it made a great impression on me and I return frequently to enjoy the food and spend money there (far in excess of a single meal). So a good a business decision on the part of the proprietor. He has a repeat customer now. 

[sandrabbit]

36 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

Agreed. First rule in hospitality/F&B  industry, is "the customer is always right" even if they may be wrong. Usually a comp of some sort does the trick. It is a tough and competitive business. Reputation is everything. Not sure what this proprietor was thinking. He has done more damage to his business than the negative review IMHO. Recently ordered a filet mignon and was served a pork chop. I alerted the staff and the proprietor quickly came out and offered a free steak. I mentioned it was no problem with the chop but only to make sure the bill was adjusted accordingly. We were comped coffee and dessert and a free Sunday roast on the next visit. It was too much for a simple mistake, but showed to me the proprietor's commitment to maintaining his reputation. The pork chop was delicious and so was the Sunday roast. Needless to say, it made a great impression on me and I return frequently to enjoy the food and spend money there (far in excess of a single meal). So a good a business decision on the part of the proprietor. He has a repeat customer now. 

so why not out the place and give some free advertising!

[cat handler]

On 27/03/2018 at 9:38 PM, Anythingleft? said:

Nope, you maybe missed the point of what I was posting.
Your link clearly states that the action should be deemed as malicious, which is laudable, as that is the primary purpose of the act.
However the law, and the effect of how it is frequently applied in Thailand make it so that any opinions that do not necessarily agree with the offended party effectively becomes a tool to suppress freedom of speech. It gets waved around as a tool to suppress rather than used as a tool to protect....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

 

Just trying to make sense of what you wrote, I can’t. Are you suggesting negative feedback or reviews in Thailand can’t possibly be malicious? I still can’t see what the difference is between Thai law and Australia Law in respect to this, unless you have blinkers on of course.

[gamesgplayemail]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Cheeky. Won't work.

It's already determined it won't be OK to post the name of the restaurant here. 

But I think informing people VIA PM is still OK. 

Anyone?

Hook a brother up, will ya? 

 

It is ok to post the name if telling that this is a very good restaurant !

And I hate snitches...